The Wario Pillar (Fiction)

[ssbbFICTION]

Yah...uh. Heres the vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPGH_6Iyb2Q

Need help on testing. Seems pretty useful. (Sorry about the name, the story is in the youtube description, but its not funny or anything XD)

 

[PUDGE]

thats pretty tite, if u can pull it off early saves some of your killer moves

 

[KillingJoke]

I will definitely give this a shot tomorrow, would be very cool to use it in a real match though

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Clever. I'm definitely going to try to throw this into my game. I'll try testing it with DI the next chance I get, but it definitely seems probable. Glad to see this footstool comboing is benefitting Wario as well.

 

[DMG]

Clever. I'm definitely going to try to throw this into my game. I'll try testing it with DI the next chance I get, but it definitely seems probable. Glad to see this footstool comboing is benefitting Wario as well.

There are some things I should mention about the footstooling stuff for Wario, in case you guys didn't already know:

1. They cannot tech after you Footstool.

2. I am not that certain of this, but I have sometimes been able to force them to do a stand up reaction after the footstool by using a Jab. This probably is % dependent and maybe it was just my friend doing something wrong, but from what I can tell it forces them to stand straight up.

I am gonna implement this into the next tourney I go to and see if I can turn some heads. ;D

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

Impressive.
Definitly can be chained into more from the full hop dair -> neutral air -> all kinds of possibilitys

 

[bassem6]

Finally a new tech for wario. BLESS YOU KIND SIR.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

There are some things I should mention about the footstooling stuff for Wario, in case you guys didn't already know:

1. They cannot tech after you Footstool.

2. I am not that certain of this, but I have sometimes been able to force them to do a stand up reaction after the footstool by using a Jab. This probably is % dependent and maybe it was just my friend doing something wrong, but from what I can tell it forces them to stand straight up.

I am gonna implement this into the next tourney I go to and see if I can turn some heads. ;D

Yell out FICTION COMBOOOO jk.

I'm pretty sure the whole jab standup force was in melee, and it might be in brawl. And I know that you can force people to stand up with iceblock and such. When I was first developing this I was like, hey, wouldn't it be cool to make im stand straight up!? And then I tried it, and wario's jab works like some other jabs that just stand them up.

 

[3xSwords]

Nice Fiction although I kinda noticed dair > footstool and I was going to experiment its usefulness today. Too bad lol you beat me to it. Anyway does anybody know if wario can jab lock? If he can that means you can do the FICTION combo into a jab lock you just have to hit with the weak part of the nair and fair.

But in the case that wario can't jab lock you can use this to pillar like FICTION showed except I would use the weak attack of nair and not fair b/c of landing lag. So it would be Full hop>dair>footstool>FF nair> rinse & repeat. Also you can do the pillar twice finish with a full charged waft to finish with a 80-90% combo.

I can't test this but this combo at higher %'s is escapable I'm guessing somewhere around 40-50%. And this may only apply to heavies as FF'ers like fox may fall out b4 you can footstool or floaties like Jiggs could DI out. Anybody want to test?

Besides that. Although there is cheap grab release against wario we now have a combo that could potentially result in 80-90% worth of damage. Congratulation FICTION you have discovered one of the best combos for wario against heavies or maybe everyone. Nice job

 

[LP4Life666]

I guess the obvious thing to test first would be: Does it work just as well on characters other than Donkey Kong? I'm guessing some characters would be harder to pull off than others.

 

[PhantomX]

I guess the obvious thing to test first would be: Does it work just as well on characters other than Donkey Kong? I'm guessing some characters would be harder to pull off than others.

Bass is doing this atm, I think. He says it's stupid easy to do to Snake, and that it's doable to Metaknight as well (of course, this is in training mode).

 

[LP4Life666]

Bass is doing this atm, I think. He says it's stupid easy to do to Snake, and that it's doable to Metaknight as well (of course, this is in training mode).

Oh, well, that's a relief.

 

[PhantomX]

I'm skeptical of course... but would be nice to practice this with good DI involved.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

@ 3xswords. Just type the name Fiction please, the capitals make me look like some organization. XD

I'm skeptical of course... but would be nice to practice this with good DI involved.

The only way NOT to pop out right in front of wario or right behind him is to smash DI like crazy. And really, in real matches, have you ever seen someone smash DI out of wario's dair?

As another thing to note, if someone DI's up, just tap the jump button twice. If they smash DI down, They will pretty much spike themselves into the ground (weakly) and you might have time to either start it again or fsmash/grab/jab or anything else.

I had tested it previously on mario and marth, but I'm working on a way you might be able to 0-death with it (escapable of course, just watch for the airdodge on the last couple hits)

 

[PhantomX]

@ 3xswords. Just type the name Fiction please, the capitals make me look like some organization. XD


The only way NOT to pop out right in front of wario or right behind him is to smash DI like crazy. And really, in real matches, have you ever seen someone smash DI out of wario's dair?

As another thing to note, if someone DI's up, just tap the jump button twice. If they smash DI down, They will pretty much spike themselves into the ground (weakly) and you might have time to either start it again or fsmash/grab/jab or anything else.

I had tested it previously on mario and marth, but I'm working on a way you might be able to 0-death with it (escapable of course, just watch for the airdodge on the last couple hits)

At mid-high percents the down air kicks em away fairly far, at least far enough to avoid the footstool, so I guess the window to start this isn't that great.

 

[bassem6]

@@@@UNDER CONSTRUCTION@@@@

OK. I have tested it on all the characters. Im going to use a 1-5 star rating system to tell you who its easiest and hardest to do it on. *-pie **- easy ***-average ****-tricky *****- hard.

These ratings are based on how easy it is to perform each step of the combo on your opponent. For example dairing and footstooling snake is easy but getting him with a second dair after you hit him with the nair is a little bit tricky since he is skinny.

PLEASE NOTE *this is my personal opinion thus far and it may be subject to change and this is based solely on training mode cpu's*

Mario-***
Getting him with the first dair>footstool is easy enough, but its a bit tricky to get him with the second one when hes laying on the ground because hes small and skinny. SIDE NOTE- when I do manage to get him with the second dair,on occasion, he falls out of it halfway through.

DK-*
Hes fat, hes heavy, and he's easily hit with the second dair. It's pretty easy to combo him.

Link-***
I personally have trouble landing a second footstool on link. You could just replace it with an up-air though for a good 53%(assuming you dont use fart). Besides that, the first part of the combo is pretty straightforward.

Samus-*****
For some reason, samus is just giving me a hella hard time. Whenever I do the first fullhopped dair, she usually ends up at the same level as me(probably because shes tall and floaty) so I cant foot stool her. And when I DO manage to footstool her she isnt stunned for very long after the nair .Maybe fiction will have better luck. But for now, im keeping this as 5-star.

ZSS-****
Easier than samus because you can usually land the first footstool without much trouble. She is REALLY flat on the ground though. So you have to be right over her to get her with the second dair after the nair.

Kirby-***
Its surprisingly not too bad with kirby. He usually ends up under you after the first dair but you may have a bit of trouble getting him with the second one after the fair/nair.

Fox-*****
Its impossible to use this combo on him when hes at 0%. From what I can tell, this trick only works on fox from 12-17%, a 5% window. Darned fastfaller. If anyone has better luck with this, let me know.

pikachu_*****
It is hard as hell to get pika caught in the full hopped daired. For me he falls out about 90% of the time after the first 4 hits connect.

Marth-****
See ZSS.( I knew he was a girl)

Game and watch-***
Nothing particularly hard or easy about this one. Just do it right and it should work.

luigi-****
Hitting him with the 1st part(fullhopped dair to footstool) is tricky enough, but after you land the fair or nair he slides too far for you to land that second dair.

Diddy-***
Landing the dair,footstool and nair is simple but i cant seem to get him with another dair while hes lying down.EDIT: You can get him with the dair while hes bouncing from the nair. So instead, you can just wait till he stands up(the nair forces him to do so) and either grab or tackle him.

Zelda-***
Same as diddy except after she's laying on the ground (after you nair her) she doesnt get up automatically(maybe thats just the cpu being stupid) so you can just jab her to stand her up and grab or just f-smash her while she's on the floor.

Sheik-**
Similar to zelda in that its hard to dair her while shes laying down. She's easier to footstool though for some reason after the 1st dair.

Pit-**
pretty easy to get him with the footstool and the second dair.

Meta-knight**
Its surprisingly easy to use this on MK. He seems to always be in the right spot for the footstool and its easy to get him with a second dair.

Falco-**
Fairly easy to use AND you can still use it even if you mess up the first time.(meaning when he has anywhere from 1-16%).

squirtle-***
Easy enough to land the footstool and dair, a little tricky to get him off the ground with a second dair due to his small size.

ivysaur-**
Easy to land the combo and then chain a second one. Especially useful if you can get him off the stage and then edgehog afterwards.EDIT:managed to pull a 0-death on ivy. The combo was dair>footstool>nair>dair>up-air>full waft>up-air.

Charizard-*
Really easy to land on him. Dair>footstool>nair>dair>up-air for an easy 53%.(you maybe be able to get him with even another up-air after that for a whopping 69%)

Ike-**
His heavyness makes it easier to combo him. Same combo I mentioned on charizard can be done on him.

Snake-**
See ike.

Peach-***
Easy landing the footstool >dair>nair. Hard following up because she lays very flat on the ground.

Yoshi-***
Nothing particularly special about this matchup. Just do the combo right and it should work.

Ganondorf-*
Hes heavy and slow. VERY easy to chain the combo into wafts or uairs.

Ice climbers-?
This really depends on the skill of your opponent. You can only footstool one of them so your opponent will be able to hit you and interrupt the combo with his other IC if he is skilled enough. Otherwise, this separates them pretty well.

Dedede-*
Hes FAT, making it pretty easy to get this to work on him.

Wolf-**
Same as falco.

Lucario-***
Nothing out of the ordinary here.

Ness-**
Fairly easy to land. And you can jab him while hes laying on the floor, then grab release for a free f-smash.

Sonic-***
Straightforward enough...

Bowser-*
Another fat and heavy guy.

Wario-***
This one may be a bit complicated depending on if your opponent DI's or not. If he does, you will have to chase him in order to land the second dair.

Toon Link-***
He may be a little bit tricky because hes short, but you can still get him with the second dair easily while hes bouncing.

ROB-***
ROB stands up immediately unless your is at its weakest when it touches him.(Seems more sensitive to that then other chars IMO). If he DOES stand up, you can still get him with an f-smash. Otherwise, hes not too bad.

Captain Falcon-***
Another average tall 3-star...

Jigglypuff-****
Small and floaty. 50% of the time she will be too far above you for the footstool, so you will need to double jump in order to reach her. It will be even harder if your opponent DI's.

Lucas-***
See ness(minus the ability to grab release for free f-smash)

Side Notes:

1) I dunno if its just me, but full hop dairing the opponent from the back seems to set them up better for the footstool.

2) Doing a second full hop dair to footstool seems to only be possible on big heavy guys like bowser and DK.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

At mid-high percents the down air kicks em away fairly far, at least far enough to avoid the footstool, so I guess the window to start this isn't that great.

Yes, we know its escapable after a few tries. If you are really cool you can chase their airdodge after around 40-50 into another footstool. Anywhere in the low percent is where this combo can be used. Works even better if your dair is diminished from killing their last stock. You could probably get them up to around 60 or so if it was diminished.

Most combos don't hit at mid-high percents anyway. The point of them is to be able to get your opponent up to killing percentages faster without the possibility of getting hit. Also, the one I performed using the clap easily combos into a waft which might be able to kill lighter characters. As I said before, this needs more testing.

 

[HiddenBowser]

Nice, hopefully it works on people who DI well.

 

[DMG]

Yell out FICTION COMBOOOO jk.

I'm pretty sure the whole jab standup force was in melee, and it might be in brawl. And I know that you can force people to stand up with iceblock and such. When I was first developing this I was like, hey, wouldn't it be cool to make im stand straight up!? And then I tried it, and wario's jab works like some other jabs that just stand them up.

Lol I will do that at the Houston tourney if I pull it off on Hylian or Sethlon or one of those guys :D

I'm not gonna do it at the lower rounds, I already told myself if I get one of those kids playing with a Wiimote, then I would go all Ganondorf against them.

 

[3xSwords]

Well are we still discussing the greatness of the fiction combo? On fox I found that although you can't chain dair > footstool easily. You can do this full hop dair>FF uair>waft for a nice 70ish% combo or you can full hop dair>FF uair> dair>bite, fair or another uair depends on DI. These combos also work on heavies so they are a nice option aside from the FICTION COMMMMBBBOOO. (lol I'm going to love shouting this one out at a tourney )

Doval I've also noticed against samus she is one of the easiest to do two pillars against. Full hop dair>jump>quickly footstool>FF nair> repeat one more time. Also when testing the validity of the combo if the cpu stands immediately after FF nair then that means the opponent can't escape it. However, if they just stay on the ground that means that you aren't quick enough and there is a small period where the opponent will be able to roll away.

Well that's all I have to report. Hope you guys find it useful.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

I have a few things to say about bassem's testing. First of all, thanks for putting in the work on it.

1. If the character pops up to warios level or a little above, tap the jump button twice (I do it in the video) and you should still be able to footstool them before they get out.
2. With the fat and heavy characters, such as ddd, bowser, ganon, and dk. You can pretty much do this with them laying on the ground. To solve the problem that bassem seemed to be having on the skinnier characters, the combo actually still works with this. The Nair will actually make them BOUNCE off the ground, which will put them in a perfect place for a dair that is in the exact middle of their body.
3. If the opponent comes out even a little below you, try fastfalling the footstool for better results.
4. Futile is testing this today XD.

 

[bassem6]

I have a few things to say about bassem's testing. First of all, thanks for putting in the work on it.

1. If the character pops up to warios level or a little above, tap the jump button twice (I do it in the video) and you should still be able to footstool them before they get out.
2. With the fat and heavy characters, such as ddd, bowser, ganon, and dk. You can pretty much do this with them laying on the ground. To solve the problem that bassem seemed to be having on the skinnier characters, the combo actually still works with this. The Nair will actually make them BOUNCE off the ground, which will put them in a perfect place for a dair that is in the exact middle of their body.
3. If the opponent comes out even a little below you, try fastfalling the footstool for better results.
4. Futile is testing this today XD.

Ok cool. Im gonna finish this eventually and maybe add the % that the tech works on for every character.

 

[3xSwords]

I have a few things to say about bassem's testing. First of all, thanks for putting in the work on it.

1. If the character pops up to warios level or a little above, tap the jump button twice (I do it in the video) and you should still be able to footstool them before they get out.
2. With the fat and heavy characters, such as ddd, bowser, ganon, and dk. You can pretty much do this with them laying on the ground. To solve the problem that bassem seemed to be having on the skinnier characters, the combo actually still works with this. The Nair will actually make them BOUNCE off the ground, which will put them in a perfect place for a dair that is in the exact middle of their body.
3. If the opponent comes out even a little below you, try fastfalling the footstool for better results.
4. Futile is testing this today XD.

YAY Futile to the rescue. Futile+**** combo = win. Have you guys tested this on humans yet? Opponents DI'ing the footstool might make connecting the combo more difficult.

 

[PhantomX]

But Wario should be able to chase DI pretty well.

 

[DMG]

YAY Futile to the rescue. Futile+**** combo = win. Have you guys tested this on humans yet? Opponents DI'ing the footstool might make connecting the combo more difficult.

I have, DI down is usually easiest way to escape, but it has to be Smash DI and you have to do it for 3-4 hits in a row, otherwise the Dair will keep you sucked in long enough.

The rest of the DI directions do ok, but Wario can usually follow them if they try left or right and Up is hard to escape with, considering Wario is rising with the Dair.

I haven't tested this with every character, these are just general guidelines.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

I have, DI down is usually easiest way to escape, but it has to be Smash DI and you have to do it for 3-4 hits in a row, otherwise the Dair will keep you sucked in long enough.

The rest of the DI directions do ok, but Wario can usually follow them if they try left or right and Up is hard to escape with, considering Wario is rising with the Dair.

I haven't tested this with every character, these are just general guidelines.

Lol, I doubt anyone has enough time to smash DI whenever wario randomly pulls a dair. And even if they do dair down, it sets them up to combo as I stated earlier.

 

[IM_A_HUSTLA]

smash di up and it doesnt work

and it can and has been done

the last hit doesnt hit so they go up instead of out

 

[DMG]

smash di up and it doesnt work

and it can and has been done

the last hit doesnt hit so they go up instead of out

This is hard to do, considering Wario is Rising while doing the Dair. If it was a SH Dair then yeah that should work fine but for a Full hopped Dair, it's easier to DI straight down, and even then it takes a lot of practice to get the proper Smash DI Timing on more than 2 of his hits.

 

[handsockpuppet]

does this really work? and can you easily follow it up with another? otherwise, I don't think it's worth it, besides getting the waft in.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

I've been testing it a bit more and bassem is right. Skinny characters are more difficult to do it on. I suggest dair footstool, drop the nair or fair, jab to grab :\.

EDIT: To me the most difficult character to do it on is marth that I have tested. For some reason he bounces incredibly low to the ground. For 35 damage you can do dair footstool, drop the nair to dashing u smash. Its incredibly easy on chars that the other type would be difficult on.

 

[PhantomX]

By "drop" do you mean just skip it and go for the jab>stand up animatin>grab?

 

[3xSwords]

How escapable is this? I've tested this and also from recent discoveries on the Kirby forums which also involved using the footstool except into jab lock, I want to question the validity of this combo.

The combo was FFuair>footstool>FF nair>dtilt>jab lock. On the Kirby forums after extenstive testing from the likes of Gonzo and others with humans. They have found that most characters can escape the FF nair after the footstool jump. Only some characters like Samus and Olimar bounce on the ground high enough to be hit by the FF nair.

So basically I'm wondering if the same applies to Wario does he fall fast enough that the opponent can not roll away quickly enough after a footstool? Although its a **** combo, is it really a combo?

 

[slikvik]

after the footstool, the opponent should be able to tech

 

[Al_Di_Medola]

you cant tech if you hit the ground while in the tumble animation of footstools.

 

[bowz]

Could this combo into a jab lock? (I don't know if Wario can jab lock.)

 

[HiddenBowser]

Has anyone tested if you can hit them with a ff nair before they can roll away?

 

[Al_Di_Medola]

Could this combo into a jab lock? (I don't know if Wario can jab lock.)

he cant, but if he could tht would be EPIC!

 

[ssbbFICTION]

Has anyone tested if you can hit them with a ff nair before they can roll away?

There is a small, inescapable window of ffing the nair. It takes some timing and tech skill though. (Yes, tech skill in brawl.)

 

[WaftMaster123]

looks cool to me maybe I should try it somtimes.

 

[HiddenBowser]

There is a small, inescapable window of ffing the nair. It takes some timing and tech skill though. (Yes, tech skill in brawl.)

sweet (10 char)