This deserves a thread lolz

[Deleted member]

Alright im tired of this, people talking about knocking falco out of phantasm, and people not gimped the eff out of falco(ive seen nobody ever do it)


grab falco out of phantasm-> Grab release-> edgehog

Easy, guarenteed, evens up the matchup.

 

[Delta-cod]

Alright im tired of this, people talking about knocking falco out of phantasm, and people not gimped the eff out of falco(ive seen nobody ever do it)


grab falco out of phantasm-> Grab release-> edgehog

Easy, guarenteed, evens up the matchup.

What if he still has a jump?

What if he targets the ledge?

What if he phantasms high?

Nair can get him in each instance.

Grab can't.

 

[Poltergust]

There's also the fact that he's invincible for roughly half of the move. Grabs don't beat invincibility.

 

[Shiri]

I'm gonna leave this open just to watch Sockz get rizzaped.

 

[Davidlazer]

LOL. I'm sorry, but that wins an award point. You just made Davidlazer post. Grats.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Thats assuming that he's actually dumb enough to phantasm directly at you with no jumps when he can still just target the ledge

 

[Deleted member]

What if he still has a jump?
If he still has a jump you can nair him or do whatever, falco usually isnt hit at a trajectory where he gets to side b safetly without using his 2nd jump
What if he targets the ledge?
Edgehog, downtilt
What if he phantasms high?
Punish him
Nair can get him in each instance.

Grab can't. Yoshi has lots of instances where falco either has to run into the grab or goes for the ledge, its not easy to edgehog but you predict. The fact that in all of scatz' matches vs falco, and fireflys matches vs falco, there were many guarenteed times for grabs. In fact, ive watched a lot of good yoshis play falcos and get FREE low percent gimps and not take advantage of them. Btw u can grab him when he ledgehop side bs too, for a gimp.

There's also the fact that he's invincible for roughly half of the move. Grabs don't beat invincibility.

Roughly half the move? I know that u can grab him out of the move, thats all. Theres not a lot of midrange side b's that go on.

Thats assuming that he's actually dumb enough to phantasm directly at you with no jumps when he can still just target the ledge

LOL. Dude, if u dont have a second jump and yoshis running at you, he can either edgehog or running grab. Falco is basically guessing. After a certain point, you know which one falco is gonna do. Obviously you wont get it right every time.

Downtilt sets up this stuff really easily.

Also, thanks shiri for leaving this open <3

I guess i just get lucky vs falcos, and they all suck*shrugs*

 

[Airborne]

There's also the fact that he's invincible for roughly half of the move. Grabs don't beat invincibility.

Invincibility is not a factor of phantasm AT ALL, bruh. He has hurtboxes in only 3 spots during the phantasm: the beginning, the middle, and the end. And by spots, I mean his literal position. The rest are just magical hitboxes that say "HEY! I'M CONTROLLING SPACE LIKE I'M DR. DOOM!!!"

 

[Poltergust]

Invincibility is not a factor of phantasm AT ALL, bruh. He has hurtboxes in only 3 spots during the phantasm: the beginning, the middle, and the end. And by spots, I mean his literal position. The rest are just magical hitboxes that say "HEY! I'M CONTROLLING SPACE LIKE I'M DR. DOOM!!!"

Uh... can you explain this more clearly? Are you saying he's vulnerable for 3 separate periods during the move?

 

[NickRiddle]

Randomly popping in here.
Falco's side-b is invulnerable the first 1/3 of the move.
Ask the Falco boards.

 

[Judo777]

Randomly popping in here.
Falco's side-b is invulnerable the first 1/3 of the move.
Ask the Falco boards.

^^^This. More importantly gimping falco is actually fairly hard. It's doable but more importantly you should just try to make him take damage whiles hes recovering. If the Falco is willing to take some damage he can pretty much always get back. If he trys to play it safe then u might be able to pull off a gimp but its not easy.

If the falco recovers high then the most u can do is nair him. If he DI's the nair correctly he can be close enough to where now if he phantasms through you he will be invulnerable while hes passing you. If falco is far enough out or not high enough sure u can pull off a gimp. But its not easy cause just like olimars, Falco players are very good at recovering.

 

[Deleted member]

If you catch him with most moves as hes landing and he goes offstage without DJ (downtilt while hes landing or dsmash, its not like he has an aerial that hits infront of him, and he falls fast) hes either gimped or taking a fair bit of damage if he recovers high (i wonder why falco doesnt always recover high hmmmmm).

Yall dont have to listen, just keep losing to falco and thinking hes a bad matchup lolz(doesnt apply to everyone obv) xD

 

[Depster]

Well also if falco recovers high, can we not just grab him anyway and cg to the ledge and grab or dtilt him when he fantasms again?

 

[Scarlet Jile]

If he recovers high, you can just spot dodge... or duck... and generally punish him for landing afterward.

 

[SOVAman]

you're all gay

 

[Sinister Slush]

And you're a cosmo.
Yoshi's Nair still beats Phantasm.

 

[Deleted member]

The problem is, falco beats yoshi pretty solidly onstage, and the nair damage doesnt reallly matter that much.

 

[MX778]

Yes, he does beat Yoshi onstage by a very good degree. However, Falco doesn't have the advantage if you can get him off the ground.

That Nair damange will matter a whole lot if you hit with it. It's possible to grab him out the phantasm, but you have to have like extreme reflexes to grab him out of it. I wouldn't bother with it since half the time it won't connect anyways. Falco is hard to gimp, another factor and making sure we don't get gimped by trying to gimp him. lol

 

[Deleted member]

....
It takes the reaction time of a 3 year old.
Hes really easy to gimp....

*sigh* im really not theorycrafting guys, i do this all the time X.x

 

[MX778]

If you're right in from of him maybe.

Nair has better knockback then any of our throws anyway.

 

[Depster]

But nair doesn't set up for gimps quite as well. Our throws put characters in bad positions, and nothing else.

 

[Silent Beast]

Nair has better knockback then any of our throws anyway.

He's saying to grab release. Throwing Falco lets him DI upwards and makes it easier for him to get back to the stage. GRing Falco puts the him in a terrible position.

 

[Deleted member]

No it puts him in a dead position...
If you grab falco out of phantasm (after he has used DJ), he loses a stock and theres nothing he can do about it.

Why would you nair him unless hes recovering high. He can adapt all he wants, one low percent gimp is a set changer. If he starts out recovering high, you nair him and **** his landings until he recovers low XD

Or you dtilt him out of the air and then grab him and gimp him.
Its really not hard to understand.

If you throw him out of a grab, i will eat you

 

[Sunnysunny]

It just feels really situational.
The falco has to be off the ledge, use his second jump and phantasm right too you. If the falco does something that dumb at a low percent he deserves to get his stock taken. If you can do that, more power to you, but I don't think this is something that will happen often, and even less often if falcos at a low percent.

 

[Poltergust]

Yeah, it's like grabbing Wolf out of his double-jump. Possible, but never guaranteed or easy. This kind of thing shouldn't be happening too often.

 

[Deleted member]

.
I mean you dont have to do it, i guarentee you you have way more chances to get gimps on falco than you think.

Phantasm right to you? Its a good move lol. Its like MK fairing right to you, that isnt really situational.

Its not at all like grabbing wolf out of his double jump, that should never ever happen.

But ok, im done, i told you what it is, why it works, a few ways to get it to work. You'd be surprised the good people it works on.

Like i said, 1 low percent gimp a set is a game changer.

 

[Airborne]

.
I mean you dont have to do it, i guarentee you you have way more chances to get gimps on falco than you think.

Phantasm right to you? Its a good move lol. Its like MK fairing right to you, that isnt really situational.

Its not at all like grabbing wolf out of his double jump, that should never ever happen.

But ok, im done, i told you what it is, why it works, a few ways to get it to work. You'd be surprised the good people it works on.

Like i said, 1 low percent gimp a set is a game changer.

I'll mess around with this when I play friendlies with Judo next. Luckily, both of us can play Falco and Yoshi. XD