This game is balanced: here's why

[tafutureboy]

I've began maining Snake. Honestly I dont think he's cheap.

you can avoid his moves if you can use a shield button
all his moves get reflected like crazy.

Yeah he's strong, but slow.

I honestly think there'll be a tier list

my bet for top teir is Toon Link.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

*reads post*
*looks at OP's join date*
*looks at OP's post count*
*leaves*

It's foolish to assume that the amount of posts determines how good of a poster a person is. I've lurked here for a long time and I see plenty of people with several hundred posts that are foolish and not worth reading. I used good grammar and made a good argument. Either respond to it or do nothing.

Shady, I don't remember CF and Jigglypuff being main tournament winners. Peach, yeah sometimes. But it was always Marth, Falco, Fox, and Sheik most of the time.

 

[shadydentist]

It's foolish to assume that the amount of posts determines how good of a poster a person is. I've lurked here for a long time and I see plenty of people with several hundred posts that are foolish and not worth reading. I used good grammar and made a good argument. Either respond to it or do nothing.

Shady, I don't remember CF and Jigglypuff being main tournament winners. Peach, yeah sometimes. But it was always Marth, Falco, Fox, and Sheik most of the time.

Silent Spectre, Isai, and Darkrain, for CF, and King and Mango for Jigglypuff, just to name a few. All of these players have significant wins under their belt with these characters. These characters were widely considered tournament-worthy.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Silent Spectre, Isai, and Darkrain, for CF, and King and Mango for Jigglypuff, just to name a few. All of these players have significant wins under their belt with these characters. These characters were widely considered tournament-worthy.

Yes, I know that these players were considered tournament worthy. King wasn't a person I saw winning a lot of matches. Isai definitely had skills with CF, but that was because Isai is pretty much on top of the world when it comes to playing Smash.

They do have significant wins under their belt, but the ones you see winning most of the tournaments were the previously mentioned four.

So far, I've seen such a huge variety of people complaining about overpowered...that it seems that there is no real overpowered characters. Just lots of people complaining about lots of different characters. There's no central posse that seems to rule the game.

 

[LavisFiend]

I am surprised no one else mains Tabuu.

Oh well, looks like it is up to me. =O

 

[RedMage8BT]

^^^ROFL

Sure, there's disagreement, but characters like Ike and Meta Knight are clearly not the best in the game. I don't care how many n00bs they own.

 

[ice-]

Yes, I know that these players were considered tournament worthy. King wasn't a person I saw winning a lot of matches. Isai definitely had skills with CF, but that was because Isai is pretty much on top of the world when it comes to playing Smash.

They do have significant wins under their belt, but the ones you see winning most of the tournaments were the previously mentioned four.

So far, I've seen such a huge variety of people complaining about overpowered...that it seems that there is no real overpowered characters. Just lots of people complaining about lots of different characters. There's no central posse that seems to rule the game.

Pound 3 :/

 

[Corigames]

You're logic is flawed.

If I ask you to tell me what the best pain reliever in the world is, you would have a lot to chose from. The obvious choice would be a prescribed head-ache pills. A lot of people would say advil, tylonal, IBprophen, etc. There would always be a "Best," because it works the best, but most of those people aren't doctors by profession and don't know what they are really talking about.

Same with Smash tiers. If you ask a bunch of n00bs who is the best, they are going to have a wide sample. But, if you ask a lot of pros, I'm sure you would get a more narrow group of characters, or, at least, better reasons than "They are fun," or something.

 

[Speedsk8er]

"Game and Watch! That... ****... turtle!! I hate that turtle! D:"

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I agree that Game and Watch is way too good.

It's probably just me, but I think that a reason this game FEELS more balanced is the fact that not many characters can combo any more, and that matchups seem to be more important given the wide variety of characters.

For example, because of the lack of long combos in Brawl, heavy, slow characters like Ike and Dedede have more of a chance to win and not be slaughtered by a random Dair combo. If they were in Melee, these characters would be a the bottom of the bottom of the tier list, and Mewtwo and Pichu would be laughing at them as they mopped the floor. This effectively makes half of the cast a lot more viable for competitive play, because they won't be destroyed by faster characters who can combo them to death.

As for matchups, they seem like they hold more weight. Snake may very well be top tier with his hitboxes and raw power and such, but he can be chain throw from 0 to 90% at the start of the match by Lucario, who also outranges him and beats him in terms of hitboxes and priority. This only happens because of Snake's weight in comparison to his falling speed. There aren't many other characters who Lucario can chain throw this well. Now I wouldn't say that Lucario is a Snake counter at all, but being able to easily take a character from 0 to 90 at the start of a match after landing something as simple as a jab or close range force palm is really worth considering, especially if said character trumps snake in range and priority with his basic attacks, and excells at defensive play.

Likewise, many Lucario players won't claim that Lucario counters Marth, but will recommend him as a good character to use against Marth because of those same crazy aura hitboxes that are on equal footing with the swordsman, excellent shield game and annoying projectile. Lucario also has the slight advantage of having hitboxes that linger.

It seems that there are many characters who have tools that they can use against other specific match ups to make things more interesting each time, even more so than in Melee. I mean, look at the Ice Climbers. They have 0-death chain throws that work against every character.

 

[Yuna]

I've began maining Snake. Honestly I dont think he's cheap.

you can avoid his moves if you can use a shield button
all his moves get reflected like crazy.

Reflected, you say? In what alternate universe? Heck, his missiles can't even hurt him.

I honestly think there'll be a tier list

There always is... even in games like GGXXAC. The only way for there not to be a tierlist would be to limit the chracters to 3, have them all be equal in everything except for a Rock-Paper-Scissors system where A beats B who beats C who beats A.

 

[Yuna]

You're logic is flawed.

If I ask you to tell me what the best pain reliever in the world is, you would have a lot to chose from. The obvious choice would be a prescribed head-ache pills. A lot of people would say advil, tylonal, IBprophen, etc. There would always be a "Best," because it works the best, but most of those people aren't doctors by profession and don't know what they are really talking about.

Same with Smash tiers. If you ask a bunch of n00bs who is the best, they are going to have a wide sample. But, if you ask a lot of pros, I'm sure you would get a more narrow group of characters, or, at least, better reasons than "They are fun," or something.

I said this 3 or so pages ago. They don't care about actual logic. They just use whatever logic supports their case.

 

[Rebel581]

Psh, this game isn't balanced. People are tripping all over the place!

BA DUM PSH!

</lame joke>

How dare you not take a topic seriously and make someone laugh, douchebag.

I was going to make an angry post. Now I'm just going to laugh and leave this topic.

And lulz at 3 pages ago. There are only 2 pages to this topic if you aren't a n00b at changing page settings.

 

[Zankoku]

The only way for there not to be a tierlist would be to limit the chracters to 3, have them all be equal in everything except for a Rock-Paper-Scissors system where A beats B who beats C who beats A.

You're obviously one of those people who doesn't think Rock is top tier. After all, Paper loses to everything. Especially Scissors!

 

[Xarias]

What the TC is essentially trying to say is:

Brawl is balanced as a result of its unbalancedness.

 

[-Linko-]

What the TC is essentially trying to say is:

Brawl is balanced as a result of its unbalancedness.

It's weird, I had once red that on a Sirlin article...

There always is... even in games like GGXXAC. The only way for there not to be a tierlist would be to limit the chracters to 3, have them all be equal in everything except for a Rock-Paper-Scissors system where A beats B who beats C who beats A.

I beg to differ. Mario Party has never had a tierlist, and it has aroud 8 characters?

The only way for there not to be a tierlist would be that ALL characters are the same. The same moves, the same movements, the same speed, etc... (That's what happens in Mario Party, and just look at its (unexistant) competitive scene)

Look, it's perfectly balanced!​

Ps: WHERE'S MAH MARIO KART WII TIERLIST??

 

[Yuna]

I beg to differ. Mario Party has never had a tierlist, and it has aroud 8 characters?

Just because no one's written one doesn't mean one doesn't exist.

The only way for there not to be a tierlist would be that ALL characters are the same. The same moves, the same movements, the same speed, etc... (That's what happens in Mario Party, and just look at its (unexistant) competitive scene)

Yeah, I forgot to mention that one, sorry.

 

[retro gamer 6]

balanced is when ALL the characters have a chance in a match, not just the top tiers


when a link or kirby can be just as competitive as a marth or falco.... that is balance

you got that right. which makes sense since some characters were nerfed and some were buffed. like marth, he was nerfed, and kirby was buffed. it makes other characters useful and i hope to see a diversity of characters in tournaments unlike in melee where most of the time you'd see mostly fox, falco, and marth in most matches. i hope this won't happened again. Kirby-FTW!!!

 

[Resident_Smash_Genius]

TRFQ Heh, go Ice Climbers, way to pwn those sad tier 1 losers.

 

[Roller]

I don't see the point of all this. pika is obv best character...just sayin...

 

[hippochinfat!!]

Mario Party can't have a tier list.

All characters play exactly the same.

 

[Yuna]

Mario Party can't have a tier list.

All characters play exactly the same.

They aren't shaped the same, though. Certain characters are bigger, others thinner, certain taller, others shorter.

Which means that it's easier to hit certain characters and harder to hit others. In mini-games where you can bump people and jump on their heads, it's easier to be a big character as well.

 

[NeoZ]

Mario Party can't have a tier list.

All characters play exactly the same.

Yeah and that's the only way a game can be perfectly balanced.
But still... Mario Party sucks.

They aren't shaped the same, though. Certain characters are bigger, others thinner, certain taller, others shorter.

Which means that it's easier to hit certain characters and harder to hit others. In mini-games where you can bump people and jump on their heads, it's easier to be a big character as well.

Then the tier list would be from smallest to biggest.
Or are there mini-games where being big is good?

 

[Pink Reaper]

They aren't shaped the same, though. Certain characters are bigger, others thinner, certain taller, others shorter.

Which means that it's easier to hit certain characters and harder to hit others. In mini-games where you can bump people and jump on their heads, it's easier to be a big character as well.

Lol Yuna, you just love to argue don't you

Bonus points if you argue this point.

 

[shadydentist]

Mario party is a game where skill is a minimal factor. Not saying it isn't fun, but essentially its rolling a dice and waiting at least half an hour to see what happened.

 

[AlexX]

Mario party is a game where skill is a minimal factor. Not saying it isn't fun, but essentially its rolling a dice and waiting at least half an hour to see what happened.

That doesn't make any sense... Even if you roll low numbers for a whole game, if you always win the minigames you can still make a comeback.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Why did this turn into a Mario Party thread?

 

[Roller]

Why isn't every thread a Mario Party thread?

.

Fixed.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Why did this turn into a Mario Party thread?

Its a backwards type of reasoning. Brawl n00bs think that if they can prove Mario Party is competitive they can prove that Brawl is competitive.

 

[LavisFiend]

I am surprised no one else mains Tabuu.

Oh well, looks like it is up to me. =O

QFT! Nice butt BTW.

Yeah, Tabuu has no hitstun, not to mention, he is so heavy he is hard to knock off the stage. Plus, his grab is the longest in the game, and is able to OHKO if sweetspotted.

His FS is also a OHKO. Also, he is heavy and fast.

Seriously guys, you should listen to Lavisfiend. He knows a lot. PLUS, he has a nice butt.

 

[EternalCrusade]

When was the last time you heard someone complain about Yoshi or DK being overpowered?

It's true that this game is more balanced, but that doesn't mean there won't be tiers or anything.

Tiers are automatically in this game, because people are going to make them, its just the way it is, but that doesnt mean tiers hold as much value in this game at all.

DK is overpowered. I was kicked out of a tournament by Tom and his DK, trust me, those tilts and smash attacks are effed up...

Also, you should play ngamer3k, he'll give you a run for your money with Yoshi, no doubt about that.

 

[Crizthakidd]

the OP was stating a good point. dont turn this into a tier onyl discussion.

what i think is that the tiers are a lot closer. maybe 3 tiers instead of the 5 before.

obviously snake, MK, DDD, and sometimes marth,ike,pit are some of the best characters. there will be guys who win with other powerful characters like falco, wofl, pikachu because brawl is just like that

there is something to complain about every character making the tier gap closer, which is what that idiot sakurai wanted

 

[Zankoku]

If anything, the tier gap feels larger this time around than it did in Melee.

 

[f1r3 3mbl3m]

I don't care about tiers, i can play as anyone, and be okay-ish. I won't win, but I won't end up in 4th. Oh, unless I play as DK. For some strange paranormal reason, I can't use him, no matter how much I try. Everyone else is fine, but DK? I don't know, maybe it's just me...

 

[-Linko-]

QFT! Nice butt BTW.

Yeah, Tabuu has no hitstun, not to mention, he is so heavy he is hard to knock off the stage. Plus, his grab is the longest in the game, and is able to OHKO if sweetspotted.

His FS is also a OHKO. Also, he is heavy and fast.

Seriously guys, you should listen to Lavisfiend. He knows a lot. PLUS, he has a nice butt.

Self-quoting=really lame

Its a backwards type of reasoning. Brawl n00bs think that if they can prove Mario Party is competitive they can prove that Brawl is competitive.

That's stupid. Mario Party has never been competitive, and will never be.

The point about Mario Party is that it hadn't got a tier list because all characters were the same. They looked thinner or fatter, but their hitboxes remained the same.

This thread was never about Brawl's competitiveness. It was about its balance. And the point was that if there are 35 different characters, Brawl can't be perfectly balanced.

 

[LavisFiend]

Self-quoting=really lame

No you're lame.

I am just that awesome.

 

[Lovage 805]

Snake, followed by Falco and ROB are destroying Brawl tournaments in Japan

 

[Titanium Dragon]

We won't know how balanced the game is for at least 6 more months, if not a year or more. We simply lack the experience with it to make a good, unbiased, useful judgement on the matter.

 

[Waggles]

Brawl's not perfect, but yes it is much more balanced than melee, at least for now

 

[Mr.C]

Brawl is no where near balanced. The same 5-6 characters are dominating tournaments at the moment and characters that are obviously not as good as those characters have very little chance of winning.

Thats the difference from Brawl and Melee, in Melee you could use Link vs Fox and the outcome would be based on how skilled the person is, even though Fox still had the advantage. In Brawl its a little different, if you are using a crap character vs a good character 95% of the time the crap character will lose because of the games mechanics, people do not get punished for being ******** in Brawl like they did in Melee, the better characters get away with a lot more, similar to Melee, but this time around getting punished is something you don't really need to worry about when using Melee standards of punishment.

For example in Brawl baiting jumps is almost insignificant although its still a basic thing people should be using, its just the outcome for outplaying your opponent is unrewarding compared to outplaying your opponent in Melee. Hell I've seen people that are just plain ****ing stupid and spam the same **** over over over and over in Brawl place well, because most of the **** can't get punished.