Tier List Speculation

[USUX_LEGEND]

Olimar's always been viable
a lot of people just dislike how there wasn't really much differentiating him from his Brawl design
relative to the other characters that they tried to reimagine in some way he just comes off as uninspired, at least imo
if you think Olimar is fun and you like playing him, good on you, but I just feel like his concept could be better fleshed out

I feel like they could put a tiny bit more emphasis on switching and micromanaging pikmin that there currently is. Or maybe i just have trouble with it since my tv is black and white

 

[USUX_LEGEND]

People get better at dealing with certain matchups. The stuff Jiggs is good at has been cracked, people know how to deal with her weaving a lot better now.

Add that to the fact that Jiggs has characters that can deal with her easier. She needs a boost in PM. A lot of people think so.

Id support a jiggs buff/rework in pm, shes been overrated for way too long. Though ive always been iffy on rest as a move, i feel like puff, or at least hboxs puff is becoming more reliant on setting up and landing rests than ever before. Its like he loses if he fails to land his rests

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

First thing M2K says on Shuffle stream interview after PM Doubles GF:

"IVYSAUR IS BROKEN."

Obligatory "Plz don't nerf balanced character after 1 good result at tournament"

 

[Strong Badam]

Jason please

 

[DMG]

Jason's not totally off, if he's talking about Doubles. It's hard to qualify Ivy as a Smash character when you're cramped by 3 other people and she turns her leafy butt at you

 

[Vashimus]

And Kirby is her teammate.

 

[Iceman]

Youre referring to pm when you say last night right? Idk i feel like id rather take my chances going agro or spacing nairs and such than camping with 1-0% damage lasers. Jiggs was already pretty good at weaving through shdl anyway and 2-4 percent per time you run to the other side of the stage and spam laser doesnt sound appealing to me.

If you are too aggro on a good Jiggs then you will get caught and probably die. It might not sound appealing, but it's the best way to play the matchup at the moment.

 

[DMG]

Kirby's Broken, accept the future

BCS characters dominate Smash

Brightly
Colored
Shortie

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Jason's not totally off, if he's talking about Doubles. It's hard to qualify Ivy as a Smash character when you're cramped by 3 other people and she turns her leafy butt at you

Truth. I feel like Ivy gets a lot of healing in doubles and is a stock tanking/gimping machine with a back air that stuffs a lot of options when you're off the edge. And then there's Solarbeam and her near unguardable recovery to consider as well. (What makes Kirbysaur good?)

 

[DMG]

Nothing makes Kirbysaur good

Kirby is a joke bad sort of decent DASH ATTACKKKK1!!!21!

Seriously though. You PM developers are *developing* a fetish for dash attacks and grounded "sprint" moves that fly past people's shields. Someone salty about shield grabs back there?

 

[9bit]

(What makes Kirbysaur good?)

I assume it's Kirby absorbing Ivy's power, shooting it off, dropping the power, and then absorbing it again whenever he wants.

 

[Nguz95]

That sounds kind of like a gimmick to me.

 

[B.W.]

It's the best gimmick ever.

 

[Oracle]

Gimmick teams are the best. Ivy olimar thoooo

 

[Seagull Joe]

I think it needs to be said that if Hungrybox is struggling as much he does with Jigglypuff - he just quit out v/s M2K's Mewtwo and Denti's Ivy at Shuffle - it should seriously be considered that the character needs something of an overhaul and doesn't haven't the tools to compete at the top level of play.

Also, HBox made a nuts comeback v/s Denti using his Mario. Which is crazy. Here's hoping he uses more of the plumber, the combos are too fun to watch.

"The combos are too fun to watch". They're AUTOMATIC. How can you enjoy watching something that takes little to no effort to perform. needs something changed because his combos are literally automatic.
Jab>Dsmash.
Uair>Uair>Fair
Fireball>anything

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I think automatic combo is a stupid phrase, when I hear that I think of something like "Push one button, several attacks are chained together"

 

[Seagull Joe]

I think automatic combo is a stupid phrase, when I hear that I think of something like "Push one button, several attacks are chained together"

Automatic's definition:

1. (of a device or process) working by itself with little or no direct human control.

2. Done or occurring spontaneously, without conscious thought or intention.

definitely requires no thought in his combos and little human control.

Nothing makes Kirbysaur good

Kirby is a joke bad sort of decent DASH ATTACKKKK1!!!21!

Seriously though. You PM developers are *developing* a fetish for dash attacks and grounded "sprint" moves that fly past people's shields. Someone salty about shield grabs back there?

as a character is really good. He can camp harder then most and his moves are really good...

 

[Nguz95]

I'm sensing some Mario salt.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

If they require timing they're not automatic

 

[USUX_LEGEND]

"The combos are too fun to watch". They're AUTOMATIC. How can you enjoy watching something that takes little to no effort to perform. needs something changed because his combos are literally automatic.
Jab>Dsmash.
Uair>Uair>Fair
Fireball>anything

Ugh this bs again. Go back to brawl if you hate combos, because attacks that naturally flow into each other are in every good fighting game and the combos in this game provide a good moderation of hitting the opponent with strings of moves and helps the flow of the game, with every stock not taking too much time to get rid of. If you hate marios combos because he doesnt have to "work" for them, then i have nothing to say to you except that you need to lrn2play. And uair chain to fair isnt free at all lol go try that stuff on a level nine fox. I hope good men like strong bad and oracle have mercy on your scrubby soul

 

[USUX_LEGEND]

^actual good pmers above me

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

definitely requires no thought in his combos and little human control

So what characters have combos in Smash that aren't automatic?

 

[USUX_LEGEND]

Seagull is only impressed by strings of hits where you "have to constantly read the opponents di to good rewarded" meaning he only likes really slow janky combos and juggles meaning hes a scrub baddie with no taste and he offends me hylian ban this man

 

[Seagull Joe]

LOL. Stupid randoms.

So what characters have combos in Smash that aren't automatic?

You're right about this, but I still feel some things are just too easy to combo.

 

[USUX_LEGEND]

Automatic's definition:

1. (of a device or process) working by itself with little or no direct human control.

2. Done or occurring spontaneously, without conscious thought or intention.

definitely requires no thought in his combos and little human control.

as a character is really good. He can camp harder then most and his moves are really good...

Excuse me sir what character do you play? If you answered a. Not a melee top tier or mario or b. a character that appears in project m then im pretty sure your character doesnt require thought or effort either

 

[USUX_LEGEND]

LOL. Stupid randoms.

You're right about this, but I still feel some things are just too easy to combo.

Nobody wouldve argued against easier combos, baddy. Though everyone is easy in this game even fox. Baddy.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

You're right about this, but I still feel some things are just too easy to combo.

I feel ease is relative. With enough practice lots of things in a game that plays like Smash is easy. I don't feel the difficulty of a technique or combo is grounds for a character to get changed, I think a lot of things (particularly combos) in Smash are pretty easy to be honest, haha.

I feel where you're coming from though, Mario is pretty jarring when you're just getting into Project M for realsies. Mario's just hella solid because of solid moves.

 

[USUX_LEGEND]

Come on guys mario is a skill cannon dont be that way. I could beat level 9 marios before i was a man

 

[KayB]

"The combos are too fun to watch". They're AUTOMATIC. How can you enjoy watching something that takes little to no effort to perform. needs something changed because his combos are literally automatic.
Jab>Dsmash.
Uair>Uair>Fair
Fireball>anything

I mean I get what you're saying, but what exactly would you propose changing? Besides, things like Uair > Fair doesn't work well, especially against floaties at high percent. Jab > Dsmash is also a bad example cause lots of characters can combo a jab into something else (ex. Jab > grab). Fireball anything is also a bad example because several characters have projectiles they can use for combos (Ness, Ivysaur, FALCO, Wolf, Peach, Ice Climbers, Link, TL, ZSS, Lucas, DDD, G&W).

I totally get what you're saying though.

 

[DMG]

"The combos are too fun to watch". They're AUTOMATIC. How can you enjoy watching something that takes little to no effort to perform. needs something changed because his combos are literally automatic.
Jab>Dsmash.
Uair>Uair>Fair
Fireball>anything

Everything you listed, besides Fireball into freeness, was a Mario/Doc choice from Melee. Nobody freaks out in a negative way when Shroomed does Jab to Dsmash, or Uair strings into Fair, or throw CG's in Melee. The minute Mario does something in PM, it's as if the Rea Sea hath parted once more and the resurrection of Christ unfolds.

 

[USUX_LEGEND]

Everything you listed, besides Fireball into freeness, was a Mario/Doc choice from Melee. Nobody freaks out in a negative way when Shroomed does Jab to Dsmash, or Uair strings into Fair, or throw CG's in Melee. The minute Mario does something in PM, it's as if the Rea Sea hath parted once more and the resurrection of Christ unfolds.

Lol both fireball and pill were pretty useless and the speed buff helps it becomr useful outside of recovering. And about the differing perspectives it can be attributed to different audiences. One celebrates skill and the other is filled with scrubs. I wonder which is which.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Everything you listed, besides Fireball into freeness, was a Mario/Doc choice from Melee. Nobody freaks out in a negative way when Shroomed does Jab to Dsmash, or Uair strings into Fair, or throw CG's in Melee. The minute Mario does something in PM, it's as if the Rea Sea hath parted once more and the resurrection of Christ unfolds.

True. Not everything needs to be 100% like melee tho. Oh well.

Let's get this thread back on track. I think is top tier.

 

[NightShadow6]

Just nerf the endlag mario has on his fireballs, I mean **** those are powerful.

 

[Rᴏb]

please someone post something about mewtwo, I want the cyclic mario stupidity to end.

 

[USUX_LEGEND]

If you guys really want to change mario can you just split mario and doc already and make mario fast? If he fell faster, ran faster, and jumped higher he would combo better along with getting combod himself as well. Luigi vs mario would finally be a legit matchup and would be crazy fun to watch. In both melee and pm its a snorefest bevause neither can combo floaties. Doc can be relegated to easy mode mario where the technical marios can play reg mario. Strong bad contact me to put me in the backroom ill share some of my ideas.

Also gdubs is seriously underrated. I have a buddy who thinks hes good in melee and favors him over the other low tiers, and thinks hes top 5 in pm. I think i kinda agree, really strong lots of options and that nair.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Just here to say that kirby is legit.


That is all.

 

[Hylian]

Automatic's definition:

1. (of a device or process) working by itself with little or no direct human control.

2. Done or occurring spontaneously, without conscious thought or intention.

definitely requires no thought in his combos and little human control.

as a character is really good. He can camp harder then most and his moves are really good...

With little or no direct human control is certainly the phrase to look out for in there. "Auto-combo" as a term for fighting games has been around for a long time. The only autocombos smash has are like a couple of final smashes. They are combos that require a button press or one input and then preform themselves, the term doesn't even belong in smash. A "combo" is inescapable and something a lot of smash players mis-use as well. A lot of smash players dislike combos and enjoy mix-ups or conversions but smash players just lump everything into the term "combos" except actual combos which are called "auto-combos" because smashers generally don't play other games than smash competitively.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

@ Seagull Joe :

You're planning on playing Wolf. Those who throw stones at Mario shouldn't play spacies, j/s.

 

[Seagull Joe]

@ Seagull Joe :

You're planning on playing Wolf. Those who throw stones at Mario shouldn't play spacies, j/s.

I'm not sure if I want to continue playing in PM. I don't want to interfere with my brawl @___@.

 

[B.W.]

You could just stop playing Brawl Wolf and then just Brawl all together.