Tier List Speculation

[SixSaw]

Speaking of Ike's fsmash, whoever was complaining about Ike having hitboxes in his body wasn't wrong...

(ike's stationary butt does the same damage and knockback as the middle of his sword)
I'll agree this is a bit silly.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

... Wtf that's stupid

I've pretty sure I've never hit with the buttbox which is why I didn't know it existed. Why does it exist.

 

[deadjames]

Here in the Midwest, we know the true terror of Link the boomerang. Seriously though every weekly tournament. Like 6 Links. And at least 2 of them place high constantly almost every week.

My opinion of Mewtwo is shaky, but I see more good coming from him than bad. D.K. is super solid and takes stocks the second he grabs you on a lot of characters. He's also damn fast for a big character, and his grab game is stupid, especially with his massive grab range.

I'm in the Midwest too, but I haven't really played a good Link, Hylian actually lives in my state from what I've been told, but I haven't really traveled much so I haven't gotten to play him. However, I have played Strong Bad and he insists that DK is mid tier and I'm pretty inclined to agree with him.

 

[B.W.]

Most people read "below average" as "bottom tier" though which is one of the reasons I did it the way I did.

Also I should have probably said "here in IL/Chicago."

 

[deadjames]

He still put Pikachu and Luigi in the bottom 15 or so, just cause they are in a section marked average doesnt mean they are a lot farther from the bottom. The meaning of average should mean that about half characters lie on either side, so B.W. just shifted everything left. I understand that this along with a lot of others is a demonstration of how people think everyone is viable and quality character, however the point of the spectrum is to put an average down and set characters above and below it. Below average means not as good as the average, not bad.

Too me average = mid-tier, and in this game mid-tier is viable, but many people seem to consider Luigi and Pika low tier.

 

[Jacob29]

I remember the time I got knocked out of a tournament by an Ike player f-smashing the ledge because at the time I was bad at sweetspoting. Bad times but nothing will motivate you to get consistent with sweetspots more.

Is it even possible to sweetspot with Bowser's Up-B?

 

[deadjames]

Pretty sure it is.

 

[Strong Badam]

Speaking of Ike's fsmash, whoever was complaining about Ike having hitboxes in his body wasn't wrong...

(ike's stationary butt does the same damage and knockback as the middle of his sword)
I'll agree this is a bit silly.

Which version was this screnshot taken from?

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Well IIRC no one's compiled Frame Data for Ike since 2.1. I think Six Saw make his own though.

 

[Vashimus]

We should all fear the butt-box. That's ****ed me over one too many times.

 

[jtm94]

I talked about how Ike having arbitrary *** hitboxes for a reason... Just look where it is.... When I bring up certain topics it isn't on a whim, they're things I've had on my mind for a solid day or longer.

He has hitboxes on his body for other moves as well, and it doesn't make sense, the least they could do is not make it as strong as the sword hitbox, because that already is the size of a small nation.

Mario has to be top with a projectile that comes out fast enough to neutralize a Link's projectiles. That's saying something...
I also wonder why Luigi can't shoot his fireballs at anywhere near the rate of Mario, and why they don't go as far? IS it because then the fireball bros would have toxic projectiles? Or is it because they don't want to nerf Mario for the generic reason of any other move being good.(If you're getting hit by it you're a bad player, just play around it scrub)

Then I ask about Game and Watch getting a more useful projectile that sends at a lower angle and I'm bombarded by remarks saying his bacon being fine as-is, because if it sent at a lower angle it would crush larger characters more than it already did. All I'm trying to say is that bacon is a very sub-par/par move, and Mario can send out fireballs at quite the silly rate. I'm not mad at or flaming anyone.

It's small things like this that bother me >.<

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Fear the butt-box, jtm.

It will be in the end of us all.

Ike confirmed S Tier in tail

 

[MagnesD3]

Also PMBR save ness, Y u luv lucas more

 

[jtm94]

They gave Ness the PK Fire, I have seen examples of people being very good with Ness, but never seen him used in tourney.

Check out a player that goes by Zeej, I think he's from OK and a really solid Ness. Check out video of Drephen playing Ness in tourney at Shuffle V, you will find him only running away and throwing PK Fire.

 

[Strong Badam]

look up awestin he is the truth all other nesses are false prophets sent by dome fossil

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

They gave Ness the PK Fire, I have seen examples of people being very good with Ness, but never seen him used in tourney.

Check out a player that goes by Zeej, I think he's from OK and a really solid Ness. Check out video of Drephen playing Ness in tourney at Shuffle V, you will find him only running away and throwing PK Fire.

Do you even Awestin bro

Edit: Strong Bad it's ****ing rude to interrupt people like that

 

[LOGIA666]

Ivysaur is gonna be pretty high up on this list. I think her disjointed hitboxes are too much.

 

[Jacob29]

Pretty sure it is.

Hmm.. How?

By just letting it end just as you get to the ledge?... even then it feels like the fact that you rise in the middle of it would still leave you open to attacks.

I'm pretty sure if you Up-B at a ledge you just do the Up-B and when it runs out you grab the ledge...

Only way I can see Bowser coming back past Ike f-smash's is by going low, saving his jump and doing a really nice rising Bowser bomb and sweetspot the ledge perfectly.

 

[deadjames]

If I'm not mistaken whirling fortress will grab the ledge at the end if you're slightly below the ledge.

 

[Jacob29]

Ah alright so it only happens at the very end of Up-B...

man that sounds like a REAL pain to try and pull off vs Ike F-Smashing (also doesn't Marth's neutral B or F-Smash hit below the ledge?)

 

[SixSaw]

Which version was this screnshot taken from?

FitIke00.pcs extracted from a Brawl iso, FitIke.pac and FitIkeMotionEtc.pac from PM 3.02, taken in BrawlBox v0.68b
The hitbox is listed as being attached to bone "HipN", so I'm inclined to believe it isn't a display error.

The "buttbox" also appears during the third jab hit, and ftilt.

EDIT: nvm the rest

 

[deadjames]

Ah alright so it only happens at the very end of Up-B...

man that sounds like a REAL pain to try and pull off vs Ike F-Smashing (also doesn't Marth's neutral B or F-Smash hit below the ledge?)

I believe so, against those characters you should try to mix it up and recover high sometimes with Bowser, especially if see that they've already started charging whatever move they want to hit you with.

 

[BJN39]

FitIke00.pcs extracted from a Brawl iso, FitIke.pac and FitIkeMotionEtc.pac from PM 3.02, taken in BrawlBox v0.68b
The hitbox is listed as being attached to bone "HipN", so I'm inclined to believe it isn't a display error.

The "buttbox" also appears during the third jab hit, and ftilt.
On every other one of Ike's normals which involve his sword (but don't have the buttbox), he has a hitbox on his left shoulder instead. Since ike favors his right arm, this leads to some similarly janky situations. During nair, for instance:

(that hitbox extending in front of Ike's head is as strong as the middle of his sword)

Honestly, because Melee is how I see it. No, really.

In Melee, 90% of characters had hit-boxes that either followed way more range than the visual, or were unrealisticly inwards.

Besides, most NAirs hit on both sides during the entire hit duraion anyways.

#ButtBox

 

[SixSaw]

Honestly, because Melee is how I see it. No, really.

In Melee, 90% of characters had hit-boxes that either followed way more range than the visual, or were unrealisticly inwards.

Besides, most NAirs hit on both sides during the entire hit duraion anyways.

#ButtBox

That's a fair point. I was thinking having sword swings extend to cover most of the upper body was an unusual thing, but Marth has it on pretty much all of his attacks as well, so w/e really. I'm just gonna delete the last section of that post since it was unnecessarily alarmist.

Buttbox is still wack tho

EDIT: Marth actually has a buttbox on his fsmash too Everything is a lie!

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Fire Emblem: Together We Ride Dat Booty

 

[Gamegenie222]

... Wtf that's stupid

I've pretty sure I've never hit with the buttbox which is why I didn't know it existed. Why does it exist.

Cause he's got buns of steel

I'm in the Midwest too, but I haven't really played a good Link, Hylian actually lives in my state from what I've been told, but I haven't really traveled much so I haven't gotten to play him. However, I have played Strong Bad and he insists that DK is mid tier and I'm pretty inclined to agree with him.

Yeah Hylian lives in your state and I sadly I haven't played a single Link yet in Project M. All I play are melee players playing their old characters and my training partner busting out new characters to deal with me like Ivysaur and Pit.

 

[victra♥]

Fire Emblem: Together We Ride Dat Booty

"warning recieved"

lmao is this a thing now on swf

 

[Vashimus]

I thought it was Shadic being a fun cop again.

 

[Fortress]

Warnings? Lucky, I just get spam infractions.

It's just a pre-fabricated message, but I know deep down it's just Shadic telling me 'hi', asking 'how are you?'

 

[Ripple]

I'm surprised I didn't get one for all my banana jokes.

but you know, I got a bunch more of them

 

[Seagull Joe]

Ivysaur is gonna be pretty high up on this list. I think her disjointed hitboxes are too much.

If her Fair was faster I'd agree with you. It comes out on frame 13/14. You have plenty of time to shield that if you're grounded...her Bair is good, but it isn't broken. It's an excellent anti-air and a good gimping tool, but it isn't super spammable versus a smart opponent.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Play anyone with mobility against Ivy.

It's a nightmare for Ivysaur.

 

[NightShadow6]

So can we fix Olimar? I just pulled a phantom pikmin the other night. (Not sure if this was due to limitations, but if possible please fix)

Not to mention the tether just not working sometimes x_x.

 

[jtm94]

Ivy needs UpB fixed. That thing is ridiculous.

 

[victra♥]

is there a way to get the OP to update the first post with the most recent pm "tier list"

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

That'd be useful, if, y'know, any sort of feasible tier list existed at the moment.

 

[Kink-Link5]

So can we fix Olimar? I just pulled a phantom pikmin the other night. (Not sure if this was due to limitations, but if possible please fix)

Not to mention the tether just not working sometimes x_x.

Tethers are janky in general. They're the only kind of recovery that is ANTI wallhugging. If you aren't recovering in the open, they just don't even try to grab the ledge, and if you start the tether such that it could reach the edge but end up on the other side of it before it latches, it will target, but not grab, the ledge.

 

[MLGF]

Speaking of Ike's fsmash, whoever was complaining about Ike having hitboxes in his body wasn't wrong...

(ike's stationary butt does the same damage and knockback as the middle of his sword)
I'll agree this is a bit silly.

Dat Ass?

Anyways, it seems like a superfluous hitbox to me, I don't see a consequence of it.

 

[jtm94]

Ivy's tether is kind of inconsistent, but not as much so as Olimar's. I think it's mainly because he gets such a moderate sized boost from his UpB if he doesn't have all his pikmin it launches him above the edge and the tether derps.

Ivy's just doesn't grab the ledge.

 

[B.W.]

Olimar's tether is weird, and looks like it should grab the ledge to a lot of people.

General rules to recovering with Olimar's tether are 1: don't be too close to the wall, and 2: Get close enough for the Pikmin's hands to grab the ledge. Even though they don't hold onto it with their hands, they rarely miss when you aim like that.