"tiers are for queers"

[slartibartfast42]

Some of my friends at school are annoying me with this, apparently they collaborated over spring break. Any advice on how to explain why tiers exist and are necessary and aren't stupid, or if this argument is even worth it?

Actually I managed to talk one of my friends (a fps fanboy) into stopping with the following argument:

You like halo, right? Well, in halo, when you come across a weapon that's better than the weapon you're holding, you'll pick it up and drop your current weapon right? Well, that's pretty much a result of you having a tier list of weapons in your head, you pick the better weapon so you can win or because you enjoy using that weapon more. All a tier list is is an organization of things in a game by how good they are. Me picking better characters is no different than you picking up better weapons as far as using tiers goes.

Anyway, discuss

BTW, I play pikachu with some frequency, so that may me out somehow...

 

[Pink Reaper]

Alot of people use Taj and Gimpyfish to prove that Tiers Dont Exist. Im going to use them to prove that they do.

Gimpy and Taj are both AMAZING players, easily some of the best. However, you will never see Gimpyfish winning any major tournaments as, no matter how amazing he is, the second he meets another amazing player, even a slightly less amazing player, who uses a better character, he will more than likely lose(there's still the X factor of how well they are both playing, random variables that can't be taken into account) Likewise, Taj's Mewtwo is beastly, however there is a reason he uses Marth in tournaments and thats because it would be literally impossible for him to win a major tournament with players equal to his skill level with Mewtwo, as Mewtwo sucks.

And I would like to point out right now that Gimpy hates it when people say he proves tiers don't exist, so for the love of Gimpy, please don't try and use him as a counter argument.

 

[Zema]

So you're implying that Mewtwo sucks?

You seriously need to try an fight as him.. He's not as bad as he seems.

 

[Pink Reaper]

So you're implying that Mewtwo sucks?

You seriously need to try an fight as him.. He's not as bad as he seems.

GO AWAY!

Spoiler

10youraretards

 

[Raustblackdragon]

There's a difference between "Tiers are for queers" and "tires don exits". TR4Q acknowledges the existence of tiers, but says they are pointless, hurtful to casual gamers, and ruin the fun of the game. Why?


Are you tired of seeing matches between Marth and Falco?

Do your friends mock you for using bowser or mewtwo because they're quote on quote: "low Tier"?

I support TR4Q.

 

[Jun.]

i believe tiers are mostly determined by outcomes of major tournaments. Of course they don't mean much when you're playing in a group of friends where there are better players and worse players. A good player will most likely win regardless of character for many reasons so tiers don't really exist the more specific you make the crowd.

but

there's a reason why there is a plethora of marth, fox, shiek, and falco players. If played on the same level, those characters have elements that surpass the other characters. Main point being: IF PLAYED ON THE SAME LEVEL. A pro could pick up a low tier and eat noobs for dinner. Go watch KDJ's pichu, Snap's G&W, Azen/Captain Jack's DK.

 

[Dogysamich]

here's the plain and easy to do this.

Tell you friend to go to a melee tourney, or find info about somebody winning a major tourney with a low tier character.

Now tell them to do it with a high or top tier (doesnt matter, it's about the same).

If they still disagree, they're casual scrubs who have no business caring about tiers.

Tiers are made for people who have any competitive nature and drive for a game, not for people who play casually.

There's a reason why you look at ANY ... ANY game EVER played in a serious, major setting, there are tiers.

(And yes reaper, that actually includes Pocket Fighter, cause apparently Ryu Akuma and Dan have chaingrabs! XD)

 

[boss8]

tiers don't exist GTFO!!! any character can beat any character proof???

Taj
gimpyfish
Direvulcan
timmy!!
tommy
Anther
Emmy
umbreonmow
chudat

......etc

 

[Dime]

Tiers only matter at the highest level of competition. If you suck like me it don’t matter what character you use.

 

[Famous]

Tiers shouldn't exist, it's all based on skill...Well this would apply for SSB and Melee...I don't know now..There are alot of players winning based off of luck now.

 

[Stuhddabahkz]

I thought tiers were like... tournament results. Like which character has the most success, I mean I know it's also a list about which character is best and whatnot, but I thought the tournament results were the main focus?

Also:

Tiers only matter at the highest level of competition. If you suck like me it don’t matter what character you use.

I'm sure the thread starter doesn't attend tournaments, so this thread shouldn't even exist.

 

[HiIH]

I dislike around half of the people who posted in this thread.

EDIT-Also, OP, just say, "OK" and win?

 

[Dime]

I dislike around half of the people who posted in this thread.

Does that include me? I need your approval to validate my own self-worth.

 

[Dogysamich]

I thought tiers were like... tournament results. Like which character has the most success, I mean I know it's also a list about which character is best and whatnot, but I thought the tournament results were the main focus?

Also:


I'm sure the thread starter doesn't attend tournaments, so this thread shouldn't even exist.

the 2006-2007 tier list was, which i always thought was dumb in practice, but couldnt argue in theory.

Cause seriously; it's ******** to say "Ok, this character is good, and he's winning most of the tournies, he's top tier." but at the same time, it makes sense.

/me randomly flails around trying to break the contradiction loop.

Tiers shouldn't exist, it's all based on skill...Well this would apply for SSB and Melee...I don't know now..There are alot of players winning based off of luck now.

If you want a real game where tiers dont exist, go play guilty gear. And guess what? It still has tiers, but atleast it is a balanced game.

Heck, even BROKEn games have tiers.

The only way to NOT have tiers is to have every character in the game be exactly alike; move for move, stat for stat.

Like Mario Party. XD

 

[ThreeX]

Like Mario Party. XD

NUT UHH@@ BOWSER IS TOP TIER IN MARIO PARTY <-- true, even though he's an NPC..


but ANYWAYS, yea.. just tell yoru friend's to go jump off a cliff... i was jus over a friend's house the other day, and they're sitting there complaining about the dumbest things.. who cares what they say, not to mention, how can halo-boi talk when he's playing a garbage FPS [mmhm, imma halo-hater]

 

[slartibartfast42]

I've stopped being so annoyed. The main person who was doing this was a G&W main who found out about tiers watching a stupid smash kingdom thing and was angry at tiers so he decided to take it out on me because he knew that I WAS A TOURNAMENT PLAYER (take that Stuhddabahkz). I never harassed him about G&W being low tier, so to resolve this problem I pretty much said something to the effect of that I never bothered him so he shouldn't bother me, especially since I can school him with any character. I also added the fact that tiers don't really apply to him since he hadn't taken his character to the highest potential. So it's all good now, I guess this thread should be closed or something. I thank the people who posted to help me, it may help me later.

You guys who were just making anti-tier comments that accomplish nothing, you fail. Don't waste everyone's time, this isn't a tiers debate. I find Zema's comment to be particularly funny: I am proficient with all characters, even mewtwo. I have no idea what gives you the idea that I'm not. I guess Smashboards really has gotten a lot more n00bs due to Brawl's hype.

Dime, don't worry, I'm sure HiIH wasn't talking about you.

 

[TheManaLord]

awful topic

tiers exist

tiers define the game

 

[KevinM]

So this is what the Melee boards appeared have come too now that Brawl ***s have taken over with their stupidity.

 

[Blea Gelo]

of ourse tiers exist. it would be nice if people that say that tiers does not exist, would play with low or bottom tiers characters and that would let em see whats the difference of winning with a sheik or a marth, than with a kirby or a mewtwo...

 

[slartibartfast42]

Yeah, like I said before, this topic needs to be closed.

EDIT: Is it just me, or did the previous 3 posters not read the first post? They think that I condone the message in the topic title, when in fact I don't. I'm not one of the new Brawl n00bs, just take a look at my join date.

 

[FalconPunch]

There's a difference between "Tiers are for queers" and "tires don exits". TR4Q acknowledges the existence of tiers, but says they are pointless, hurtful to casual gamers, and ruin the fun of the game. Why?


Are you tired of seeing matches between Marth and Falco?

Do your friends mock you for using bowser or mewtwo because they're quote on quote: "low Tier"?

I support TR4Q.

People obviously go to tournaments to give an enjoyable performance for the Youtube community.

 

[slartibartfast42]

^^^^

I need to remember to say that.

 

[Fletch]

Alot of people use Taj and Gimpyfish to prove that Tiers Dont Exist. Im going to use them to prove that they do.

Gimpy and Taj are both AMAZING players, easily some of the best. However, you will never see Gimpyfish winning any major tournaments as, no matter how amazing he is, the second he meets another amazing player, even a slightly less amazing player, who uses a better character, he will more than likely lose(there's still the X factor of how well they are both playing, random variables that can't be taken into account) Likewise, Taj's Mewtwo is beastly, however there is a reason he uses Marth in tournaments and thats because it would be literally impossible for him to win a major tournament with players equal to his skill level with Mewtwo, as Mewtwo sucks.

And I would like to point out right now that Gimpy hates it when people say he proves tiers don't exist, so for the love of Gimpy, please don't try and use him as a counter argument.

Read this. End of thread.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Tires Don Exits? Or do they?

Like, seriously, when was the last time you saw a Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, or Peach win a tournament? pshh

 

[Habanero Pepper]

tiers existing is just as illogical as hitler being an anti-semite.

Oh wait.

Seriously, this argument is like a pinata that doesn't leak candy after getting smashed open with a metal baseball bat.

 

[HiIH]

Does that include me? I need your approval to validate my own self-worth.

You're ok.

 

[WolfBane]

Tiers only matter at the highest level of competition. If you suck like me it don’t matter what character you use.

Turth here.

I would have to say any character middle tier and up has a close to equal shot at winning vs anyone. A well played Luigi, Ganon, Ness, Samus can put up a good fight vs a well played fox, marth, shiek. But pro's at tourneys want all the edge they can get, that is where top tier comes into play.
Lower tiers character are kinda like a handycap

 

[xyouxarexuglyx2]

So you're implying that Mewtwo sucks?

You seriously need to try an fight as him.. He's not as bad as he seems.

Mewtwo is ****. I practice as him sometime, and my friend ***** me with a middle tier character he's never played before. (I'm not good at M2, but my M2 experience should outweigh his experience with whatever character he had)

 

[protokid]

You know.
So what!
Tiers excist and there is nothing we can do about it!
So stop this Discussion!
(Not that I like tiers. I don`t really have a opinion about them.)

 

[aMtt]

tiers don't exist GTFO!!! any character can beat any character proof???

Taj
gimpyfish
Direvulcan
timmy!!
tommy
Anther
Emmy
umbreonmow
chudat

......etc

tiers don't mean "this character can't beat this character." they are indicative of what characters do better in a tournament setting, and if two players were equally skilled, which characters would be more effective. even though all of those players you listed would probably 4 stock me no problem, the only one that really wins major tourneys with their low tier is ChuDat. Taj uses Marth, anyways.

 

[Naeroon]

I don't believe that tiers exist only at top-level competition.

I have a friend who believes he's pretty **** good at smash, well, ok. I play as Ness, he plays as sheik. We talk smack back and forth, and then once we finally get around to playing, he actually beats me, 4 stock, on final destination.

Well, ok. Next round, I win.

He says that he's still better, even if it's 1-1, but I disagree, saying that the only reason he won in the first place, was because he was using a top-tier character, and to prove my point, I played as shiek the next round too. Mind you, I've literally played as shiek... Maybe about 2, 3 times ever, and I end up beating him with two lives left.

I guess what I'm trying to prove is that tiers can exist at any level of play.

This was a while ago when we were a lot more casual players, but I've been hearing a lot of stuff about how tiers are mainly grouped together by learning curves. IE, a lot of fast, quick hitters that can rack up damage and deal out KOs solely based on the way they were designed, are very high up in tiers, such as Roy and Fox. At ANY level of play, you're most likely gonna see these guys come out on top if the competition is balanced. You don't need much skill at all, hell, button mashing with them might even help you win at VERY low levels of competition, just because of how swift they are.

 

[KyUuKyUu]

IE, a lot of fast, quick hitters that can rack up damage and deal out KOs solely based on the way they were designed, are very high up in tiers, such as Roy

you lose credibility after here

in non tournament play tiers are basically anything mid and up vs. everything else which sucks

 

[Naeroon]

What do you mean?

Aren't you basically agreeing with what I'm saying, that higher up tiers are generally better at any level versus lower down tiers, including non-tourny play, which you mentioned?

 

[PityLord]

TR4Q!!!

<Hits everyone with a Wii-mote!!!>

People should not take jokes to seriously

 

[slartibartfast42]

wow, this topic isn't dead yet.

Anyway, Naeroon, I think that what you said to make KyUuKyUu say you've lost credibility is that YOU PUT ROY AS A HIGH TIER CHARACTER. Roy is closer to the bottom than he is to the top in high level play. You have to go down to the point where all players have terrible spacing to make Roy a good character. So, no, Roy is not high-ish tier at any level except the REALLY sucky ones.

 

[Jun.]

pros exist

 

[Zema]

awful topic

tiers exist

tiers define the game

*STRANGLE*

You know what? Screw this. Too many competitive people on this site who can't play a game with real skill.

TIERS SUCK. THEY DONT DEFINE THE GAME. THEY DEFINE HOW MANY PEOPLE USE THAT CHARACTER AND NOTHING MORE.

I'm going to go main Mewtwo now in Melee because of this post. If you want to kill tiers, I suggest you do the same.

Tiers are for queers.

 

[Dogysamich]

*STRANGLE*

You know what? Screw this. Too many competitive people on this site who can't play a game with real skill.

TIERS SUCK. THEY DONT DEFINE THE GAME. THEY DEFINE HOW MANY PEOPLE USE THAT CHARACTER AND NOTHING MORE.

I'm going to go main Mewtwo now in Melee because of this post. If you want to kill tiers, I suggest you do the same.

Tiers are for queers.

--points to sig--

come here. beat marths and shieks. profit.

or, just become another statistic. >.>

 

[slartibartfast42]

*STRANGLE*

You know what? Screw this. Too many competitive people on this site who can't play a game with real skill.

TIERS SUCK. THEY DONT DEFINE THE GAME. THEY DEFINE HOW MANY PEOPLE USE THAT CHARACTER AND NOTHING MORE.

I'm going to go main Mewtwo now in Melee because of this post. If you want to kill tiers, I suggest you do the same.

Tiers are for queers.

*STRANGLE*

You know what? Screw this. Too many casual elitists who have never played anyone who's good on this site who can't play the game with real skill.

TIERS EXIST. THEY DEFINE THE GAME. THEY DEFINE WHICH CHARACTERS ARE THE BEST.

If you main Mewtwo now in melee you won't be winning any major tournaments. If you want to waste your time, I suggest you do this.

Tires don exits.

Fix'd

Why couldn't this topic just die like I wanted it to? Oh well. I'm sick of noobs who realize that it's impossible to make a perfectly balanced game. As long as there is significant variety, some things will be better than others, it's a fact.

EXAMPLE:

-Chess tier list-

Top tier:
Queen

High Tier:
Rook

Mid Tier:
Knight
Bishop

Low tier:
King

Bottom tier:
Pawn

Can you make a good move with a pawn? Yes. You will not be able to use a pawn nearly as effectively as you could a queen however.

Now it's not really any different in Melee. Can a Godly pichu player ever really touch a GOOD fox? Not really. Most of Pichu's moves have such short range that fox could just sit there and shine when pichu approaches. Fox outranges and outspeeds pichu, pichu doesn't have a chance if the players have equal skill and they play at a high level.

Now tiers are partially based off tournament results, but what's wrong with that? You yourself said something to the effect of "I'm going to use mewtwo in a tournament to disprove tiers." Do you really think that there aren't tons of people who haven't tried that already? It's because Mewtwo is an inferior character that no one can win a major tournament with him. The characters that are hight tier are not there because more people use them, rather, more people use high tier characters because they realize that using that character will give them a better chance to win.

 

[Zema]

I dont care about tournaments, quite frankly, because I can never attend them.

If you're correct about the chess thing, then THIS is true as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OccEKFdDq8&feature=related

Tiers dont define the game. Real gamers should accept that, but I dunno why they wont. Tiers are horrible, take the fun out of the game and are most definately for queers.