time or stock?

[white peachy]

the only time i played time matches was when one of my friends would forget to change the game type to stock. even then....that hasn't happened in years. stock>>>>>>>>>>>>>time

 

[Guildenstern]

Hmm...the math doesn't quite work out there. Again, let's say SDs are set to -2.

1. Players begin with scores of 0.

2. Player A suicides. His score is now -2. Player B's score is 0.

3. Player A kills Player B. Player A gets a point, so he's now at -1. Player B loses a point, so he's at -1 as well.

Hence, Player A only needs to make one KO to make up for his suicide.

If you are playing 1-on-1, then Time with SDs set to -2 will work exactly the same as Stock, with the one exception that the player who is winning can stall and still win. If you have Stock with a time limit, then the two play exactly the same.

If you have more than 2 players, though, that's when everything changes. In Stock, if player A suicides, then comes back and KO's players B and C, all are even again. But in Time (SD = -2), if player A suicides, then KO's players B and C, the score will be 0 to -1 to -1.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Hmm, your right, and your wrong. Player A will always be at an extreme disadvantage for the rest of the match. Because assuming the rest of the match is played out trading kills, he will finish -2.

 

[Guildenstern]

If the rest of the match is spent trading kills, then player A would lose in Stock as well...

 

[ValiantDeftone]

i always use stock because i know exactly where i stand and if i need to pick up the pace. usually set it at 3 or 5.

 

[Guildenstern]

I should add that even though in 1-on-1, Stock or Time makes little difference, I still prefer Stock because it avoids Sudden Death. I don't particularly like having a match decided because a Bob-omb happened to materialize in front of me while I was in the middle of an attack.

 

[Dash Blaster]

I should add that even though in 1-on-1, Stock or Time makes little difference, I still prefer Stock because it avoids Sudden Death. I don't particularly like having a match decided because a Bob-omb happened to materialize in front of me while I was in the middle of an attack.

I wholeheartedly agree, for the fact that i was fighting a friend on time and wasting him. He got a homerun bat, though and it went to super sudden death. I ran to him, he ran away and a bob-omb killed me. I then had to go home so i never got a rematch.

 

[Tempest 01]

i think time=stock.

Stock: its good for one - one. its impossible to run away and let everyone else kill each other. u HAVE to face ur opponent eventually. (5 stock match)

Time: its good for FFA. If somone kills a little and runs away, chances are that- A, everyone will follow him to kill him; B, the other players will rack up points so that the run away guy will have to fight or lose. (8 minuets match)

but, overall, if your all playing fair (in fray), i think time is best.

 

[Guildenstern]

FFA is exactly when Time is at its worst. There are too many cheap tricks you can pull to win, even if you set SDs to -2 to discourage suicides.

It is true that you can run away in Stock FFAs. And yes, if you're good at running away, and everyone else sucks at chasing, then you can get away with it. But if everybody is decent at the game, it just doesn't happen. If it looks like someone is staying out of the fight in Stock, people can chase him to set it straight.

But in time, it's hard to prevent, say, Fox from using his laser to shoot somebody who can't get back to the stage anyway, etc.

 

[The Immortal Flame]

Dr. actaully hit one of the main things. In Time, killing the opponant isn't nessasary. In fact, if your opponant suicides just once (on the -2 scale), that effectively loses him the match. That means, with minimal time, you would have to kill the other person TWICE to return to even. If someone has half a brain and is playing say...Fox, then its they'll run away most of the match. You may even succeed in killing them once, but you have to do it twice, and there are many players who could easily run out 3 minutes of time and only lose 1 stock.

I've heard you talk about high level play, so, wanna offer what sort of expierance you have?

What you mention is yet another one of the things that balancing the scoring system would fix, at least partially. Suiciding would only cost you one point, and kills would earn the attacking player 1 point with no effect on the other player's score, so it would not be nearly as much of a burden to even it up again. You are also forgetting that even with the current scoring system, the game only counts killing yourself with certain items as suicides, so even setting the suicide penalty to -2 will not make things any worse for you - accidental suicides will only cost you 1 point. No one intent on having a decent, evenly-matched game uses items, either. Getting a kill during the waning seconds of a match is not overwhelmingly difficult if you know what you're doing (I've been in as many of those situations as anyone else), and like I said before, running is the least effective way of preventing your opponent from wasting you. In instances like being down by a kill with only 20 or so seconds remaining, and your opponent is holding you off by simply fending you off with a combination of attacks and defensive techniques without the intent of killing you, I see your point. However, the odds are not always against you, especially if your opponent has a high damage percentage.

Keep in mind that it's not the current mode of time that I'm defending. If the scoring is done the way I have in mind (possibly in SSBR), suicides will hardly be a concerning factor, especially since accidental suicides aren't too common. Running for extended periods of time is uneffective, so it seems to me that the only time a player would really be pressed to get a kill is during the final minute or so. It's still a problem, but not as big an issue as you are making. All you have to do to have room to use various strategies and get a good number of kills is to set a reasonable time limit (one that's not too short). I admit I went overboard with my criticism of stock, but it is still possible to make a timed match reasonable game.

I haven't had a chance to enter a tournament, but what makes you think that all non-tournament players are noobs? Both I and the people I play are well-versed in plenty of the more advanced techniques in the game, and I've been playing both games since their releases. There is a decent number of things you can figure out without entering a tournament, and you do not have to enter a tournament to find worthy competition, even though it's still more convenient to do so. You can also figure out plenty of stuff just by reading the guides on this site, which I'm sure are mostly made by tournament players. I don't consider myself an expert or one of the big-time higher-ups of the game (sorry if I'm giving you that impression), and I know you have to play in tournaments to really understand everything completely, but I've had enough experience and tried out enough stuff in the game to be a decent player. I usually play stock, because I know how screwed up the current time system is, but I have played a lot of serious timed matches just to test things out, and I know plenty of the situations you can be presented with when you play them. Fixing the scoring system will solve the majority of those problems.

I will try and enter a tourney as soon as I can. I'm in college right now, so I don't have a lot of free time. The Mall of Louisiana in Baton Rouge is right near where I live, so if you ever get wind of any being held there, let me know.

 

[Geno007]

Time is good when you have one TV and 10+ people who want to play. It sucks when only one person switches (the loser) and three other people stay. Then nobody gets to play. If you play time (say 10 minutes), after time is up, then all four can get up and let other people play.

Stock is better because if Time was really better, tournaments everywhere would be using that format. Also, if someone suicides, it's probably his own fault. So -1 stock for him.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Stock is better because if Time was really better, tournaments everywhere would be using that format.

Geno007 for president.

 

[PaperLuigi5222]

i like stock .

 

[PaperLuigi5222]

time.....................i dont know

 

[PaperLuigi5222]

i just dont like it

 

[KiLlAmArTh72]

stock all the way

 

[PaperLuigi5222]

how many stock do you play with. i play with 3

 

[Shadro]

I perfer stock. I'm not really a huge fan of time I don't like the consept of being rushed to get as many kills as fast as possible. I like stock better 1. because its easer to me at least to tell who is in the lead and 2. You can take some time instead of working aginst the clock.

 

[{doc pills}]

stock is more fair than time. Time you can just suicide and win cause they cant get a kill after. Stock requires more skill to come back from say.....2 lives to win then it does 30 seconds for a kill and i win.

 

[royandmarth]

wow, i haven't been here in a while and i'm suprised i even have 20 replies! but you guys make a great argument. Stock would be the fairest choice in my opinion because you can't weasel out of the match

 

[royandmarth]

i think time=stock.

Stock: its good for one - one. its impossible to run away and let everyone else kill each other. u HAVE to face ur opponent eventually. (5 stock match)

Time: its good for FFA. If somone kills a little and runs away, chances are that- A, everyone will follow him to kill him; B, the other players will rack up points so that the run away guy will have to fight or lose. (8 minuets match)

but, overall, if your all playing fair (in fray), i think time is best.

Holy crap you are right. *thinking* why can't i say clever things like you guys?

 

[Master_Bratac]

I personally prefer stock. I usually use 5 stock, no time limit, but I've also been using a "tournament style" recently. (i.e. 4 stock, 8 minute time limit, no items)

 

[GREEZY_b]

stock is the best...but it aint when you loose and you gotta wait till the last two are done dancing with each other..

 

[royandmarth]

yeah, i'm pretty much leaning to stock right now because it really sucks when some noob avoids you the whole time then gets a lucky shot in sudden death

 

[Uno]

MMm..... the delicious stock is the only kind of the delicious you could find....

 

[The Immortal Flame]

There's one thing that I just can't understand. Why do they play timed stock matches in tournaments? Plenty of you have told me that even if the scoring system were evened out in timed matches, there would still be the problem of using the time limit to your advantage and stalling when you're ahead (not that you could actually do that for several minutes against someone on your level - that's an exaggeration, but I get the point in general). So if the time limit is the problem, then why are time limits imposed on stock matches? Even though there is a limit in lives, you could still stall your opponent when you are ahead in the stock count toward the end of the time limit. Thus, it doesn't strike me as being too much different from a regular timed match in that aspect. It would make more sense to just play a regular stock match.

So why do they sometimes place a time limit on stock matches? Could any tournament players explain this to me?

 

[TheOrder]

They impose time on stock matches because of time restraints. Can't have campers dragging out matches for 20+ minutes now @_@

 

[The Immortal Flame]

Yes, but there is usually a low stock number in tournaments correct? So the fight shouldn't be dragged out, anyway. Besides, in stock, no one will camp out for any long period of time, because players understand that the game won't get anywhere until kills are made. If this is not the case, than why do you people have a problem with time limits in general? Whether you are playing a regular timed match or timed stock, the time limit can still be used to the advantage of the player is ahead in the count. If time serves as a motivation to stay in the fray and keep up the offensive like you say, then there shouldn't be any problem with timed matches with a balanced scoring system.

 

[Ismael]

Stock for me!

I never liked Time matches. They are no fun because you can only destroy within a certain amount of time. Stock is more fun, I don't know why but it's just better to fight in lives than a time-limited battle.

 

[Armygeddon Bomb]

I would say time, because
1.You have unlimited stock.
2.On teams, you will always have your teammate.
3.This is useful to unlock Mewtwo.

 

[Jim0]

Four Stock matches. Don't argue with me mister!

 

[YOSHIDO]

I like stock alot better than time. But stock matches should be timed.

 

[Royal Flush]

I use stock a lot more than timed matches. Stock is better for fighting to the death because one person can`t just wait off to the side and expect to win the match and great for improving skill. Time is good when you want a much more chaotic match but this kind of fight sucks there are a few characters that are campers or ones that don`t fight.

 

[mineo]

It's too easy to cheat at time.

 

[Chopstix]

Ok, one thing to ponder. If you die in Stock, it is due to skill, no matter what. Whether it be due to a greater skill or just a lack of it. For example, if you suicide, the only reason is because you were stupid enough to suicide. If you wanna argue to me that "your fingers can slip" or "you didn't time things right" or something like that, then my response to you is "No Johns, son." So, if you lose a Stock match, then it's because you aren't at the same skill level as your opponent [or are and just happened to lose that once]. Bottom line: Stock is a test of skill no matter what.

Time, on the other hand... Well, I don't often play Time. However, it can have its advantages. I mean, you have to be able to fight someone and be able to kill them more than they can kill you, assuming everyone is being fair about it.

As for 3-4 people FFA's... well, those are more for fun than anything else, so why even debate it?

Why you people feel the need to decide which is better is beyond me. If it's a 1-1 or even 2-2 match, then they both really test the skill of each player, with Stock testing all 4 aspects of the game [mind games, technical ability, offense, and defense] while Time can test them all, but doesn't necessarily test them all. The "suiciding to avoid your opponent getting a kill" thing is just using the games programming to your advantage. It's like wavedashing... it wasn't put in on purpose, but it's still used to gain the greatest advantage.

Oh, and this is just some fun story on the situation of FFA's, so if you are completely dedicated on the subject of Time VS. Stock you need not read this, but the 3 members of the Mages and a total newb were all playing, and she started missle-spamming as Samus while the others duked it out, simply because the good players wanted to eliminate each other first before going for the newb... and the newb almost won because of it.

 

[the iron peach]

I prefer stock because, although being an opportunist has its advantages, it doesn't prepare you for a tournament. All you learn to do is hide until someone else's damage is high. You only learn to sneak up on them. Then you go to a tournament and face someone 1on1. The strategy u taught yourself becomes utterly useless, because their damage won't rise just because ur hiding. Being an opportunist in stock doesn't help, it just makes the person you kill come for u next. U need to learn to fight them instead of hiding. Only that can make u better. While it may be fun to play time matches, stock can be just as fun and come with self- improvement.

 

[Silent Wolf]

I really hate time match because people i play w/are kill stealing ****tards.I prefer stealing kills in stock. plus in multiplayer stock, the opponents die out and make less destractions.1on1 is so much better either way.

 

[Royal Flush]

I really hate time match because people i play w/are kill stealing ****tards.I prefer stealing kills in stock. plus in multiplayer stock, the opponents die out and make less destractions.1on1 is so much better either way.

In stock though you get those campers which stay in a corner of a stage until everyone except for one gets killed. By then the character (not the camper) has already got severely beaten and he`s just a pushover for the camper. This can be avoided by one on one but there are always going to be people using unfair almost cheating strategies no matter what kind of match there is. Stock helps cut down on that so that`s why I prefer it over time.

 

[Armygeddon Bomb]

I would say time, because
1.You have unlimited stock.
2.On teams, you will always have your teammate.
3.This is useful to unlock Mewtwo.

Now I'm thinking hat stock is better, because you can play Timed Stock Matches.
Also, you can come back when you need to.(By borrowing a stock.)

 

[Hark21Ball]

Stock is much better than time