Tips against Fox

[GhettoSheep]

Hey guys, I'm having a lot of trouble with fox. I used to use falco against him because I could lock down his approach with lasers and then combo him for like 60-70% but I'd rather play falcon because falcon is sex. So basically, if I can grab fox, I can **** him up with tech chasing and stoms and combos etc... the only problem is that its really hard to grab fox.

Any tips on how to get grabs off on really fast/offensive foxes who love to run away and then come in with shffl'd aerials into shines?

Also, any general tips against fox would be appreciated, like exactly what combos out of throws at certain percents, approaces ect...

 

[GhettoSheep]

wow these boards suck

 

[DrewB008]

dashdance grab him after his aerials

retreating stomps work pretty good when fox tries to nair

nair is incredible for you, it can combo to grab at low % and will usually knock them down at higher % so you can tech chase, although they usually wont tech so just stomp or knee them

you get more luck on the boards asking questions in one of the commonly used threads on the boards, like asking hax thread or ask scar/bigd thread. lots of people read those and keep them near the top

 

[young wus]

wow these boards suck

U suck major balls! lol

But the answer to ur question. spam N-air! N-airs gets annoying 4 a player that like 2 play fast. just cause its hard to get around it.

Dash dance close to him then grab. use hella dash dance

also use mind games to get a grab in.

also u can hold ur shield and wait 4 him 2 mess up.

u can use Down airs into a grab

u can Forward B into a grab

there are so many possibilities

well if he is at 100% or above u can grab, up throw, forward smash.

PS: dont mess up, also dont miss a L-Cancel.

 

[calmchaos]

Downthrow > tech chase Stomp >Knee. :D

You can watch my matches in the thread where I ask for comments. I do the right thing sometimes, but when I don't it's pretty easy to see what I should have done.
Watch some matches.

I've also seen people use D throw to falling knee off the edge. But I can never get it on a fox who sees it coming. They seem to Fast fall out of it.

 

[PolMex23]

Up air...

Captains best move

Use it

 

[young wus]

the N-air is better u cant go wrong with it!

 

[HawaiianJigglyPuff]

I was actually thinking recently that I need to improve my Falcon vs. Fox match up because when I play against my friend, I'm always able to grab him but rarely am I able to get past one read off of the grab (i.e. grab, read where he is going, dair...then i mess up)

Anyway, I find that up throw is really good too. In fact I use it more than down throw now. I find it easy to tech chase them with up throw because it gives me more time to set up sexy combos.

But nair is definitely your friend for getting the grab.

Gentleman too. You can nair and then gentleman and then chase after them and grab.

 

[calmchaos]

Don't forget knee > grab.
I just don't know the % off hand.

If their DI sucks at ~65% you can up throw > over B > knee > run off Falcon Punch.
But... it wont work on anyone who plays better than a lvl 3 cpu. lol. I just said it cuz I think it's funny.

 

[ofizzy]

chain grabs whenever you can even if its only 2 in a row

 

[young wus]

Anyway, I find that up throw is really good too. In fact I use it more than down throw now. I find it easy to tech chase them with up throw because it gives me more time to set up sexy combos.

Up throw is way better then down throw, but down throw is a good use when characters are at high %.(Ex. 100+)

But Down throw is used 4 more aggressive falcons. just cause an Up-throw has more time, which gives the opponent more time 2 start DI'ing.

also the Chain grab isnt really that good. i mean sure u can chain grab them 2 death, but they can DI out of it. i say stay with tech chasing with a spike 2 knee.

Another thing when u use the down throw u should chase them with a forward-B. it very affective.

 

[calmchaos]

I thought you had to predict for Forward B to work? I thought if you did it on reaction you could get punished. I always do. Maybe I just do it too slow?

 

[ArcNatural]

I thought you had to predict for Forward B to work? I thought if you did it on reaction you could get punished. I always do. Maybe I just do it too slow?

It depends on your positioning really. If you are like at the position where if they roll towards you then you could just turn around grab, that means if they get up in place (this is something you usually have to predict anyway since getting up in place is usually too fast) or they roll away you won't be able to reach them in time. Ideally you want to be pretty close to them as they are landing then you can overB on reaction (or overB if they tech a certain way and do something else for another).

 

[young wus]

u can get punished but yah what ArcNatural said is right.

 

[0Room]

Well honestly, GhettoSheep, remember this one fact: you have more range.
Your attacks reach farther than Fox's. Spacing means a lot in this match up. But we'll get to that later.

A lot of Fox's approach with a Nair. It's fast, it combos into itself, and it's a sex kick. What's not to like?
So, as the others have already touched on, respond with a dash dance. CF has an amazing dash dance [best imo, I'm not totally sure if it's 1st or 2nd off hand] so put it to good use. Just back off, then come back in, but watch out for that shine. Try to get there right as he lands so there's less of a chance to get interrupted by a shine. Also, as everyone else has been saying, tech chasing is everything in this match up. Usually upthrow's better; it just gives you more time to react. Downthjrow's always a good option however, you can always do a drop-zone after about 70%. But sometimes you can place a dtilt or something after a uthrow.
So follow the tech/get up, either throw again or Dair. If you Dair, sometimes you can follow with a knee after ~50% if they don't tech again.

But as you said you're fine with that part. The part you have a problem with is getting there.
Well, as I said before, spacing is key to that. Give a little room between you and your opponent; they'll either do a Nair approach or start laser camping. As far as the Nair goes, we've already covered that. You can either do what I just posted up there or reply with a Nair yourself; if you space it correctly it shouldn't trade hits (check for truth?). But either way you can always wait until the Fox hits the ground. But follow that Nair with another Nair with another Nair with another Nair [it's not called the Nairplane for nothing!] or just follow with a grab. But your Nair is your farthest reaching attack as well as the one with the highest priority, so it's good to try for. Then all you've gotta do is get them off the edge and edgeguard [utilt works wonders] and you've taken a stock.

And now, repeat until the match is over.

 

[young wus]

i still say just spam N-airs!

 

[0Room]

i still say just spam N-airs!

And that works. You just need to have a better idea of what to do besides just spam nairs.

 

[young wus]

And that works. You just need to have a better idea of what to do besides just spam nairs.

lol, ok.

y not tech chase,

grab game,

use knee's,

Up-airs,

etc.

basically the N-airs are good for any combo u wanna do, its like a letters in a word. its how u use it which makes it so useful, all u have to do is follow up.

PS: i gave some more exp in the 1st page. im sry i dont go into every little detail. if u want more clarification just ask more specific question's.

 

[F Zero]

Pressure your opponent into shielding. Ex:

Gentleman, run/dd and grab.
If they use a move that leaves them open to attack, but you can't attack because of timing/positioning, empty short hop, ff and grab.
If they are camping, run and stop right before them, and wait for a shield or a dodge, then grab.

and JAB RESETS. Any good falcon knows to use them against fastfallers.

 

[Archangel]

Pressure your opponent into shielding. Ex:

Gentleman, run/dd and grab.
If they use a move that leaves them open to attack, but you can't attack because of timing/positioning, empty short hop, ff and grab.
If they are camping, run and stop right before them, and wait for a shield or a dodge, then grab.

and JAB RESETS. Any good falcon knows to use them against fastfallers.

Your N-air to **** video is....well ****

 

[KirbyKaze]

Nair him out of all of his Nairs.

 

[Archangel]

good luck with that

 

[PolMex23]

Predict the Nairs in beat or clash them wit the Uair...

U air is so **** ... so ****

 

[Archangel]

I can do it with marth actually but My Falcon is still inexperienced. Especially against other Falcons.

 

[PEEF!]

Spamming Nairs doesn't work.

I also play against some super fast aggressive foxes that might as well not have lasers.

Spamming Nairs is not really effective in my experience. I am more sucessful turning around and bairing into his nair?

I would appreciate some more detailed advice.

EDIT: What should I do once I'm in shield besides try to roll? All kinds of **** is hitting my shield.

 

[DrewB008]

nair works but you gotta hit with his feet, its tough. im terrible at baiting people into my bairs but some people have a lot of success with that, khepri does it all the time

full jump and bair/nair out of shield are ok, stomp is big risk/big reward but lots of dudes wont let you do it at all so you gotta recognize that and stop doing it if it doesnt work

 

[Neverender]

Just don't get hit and shffl aerials and you're good!!

 

[PEEF!]

Big D, why full jump not shorthop?

EDIT: NVM I read that wrong.

 

[ArcNatural]

nair works but you gotta hit with his feet, its tough. im terrible at baiting people into my bairs but some people have a lot of success with that, khepri does it all the time

full jump and bair/nair out of shield are ok, stomp is big risk/big reward but lots of dudes wont let you do it at all so you gotta recognize that and stop doing it if it doesnt work

I'm really surprised Falcons don't try wavedashing OOS. It's not that long but I'm pretty sure it's long enough to get out of shine -> nair or pillaring situations. If it's that useful for Marth/Sheik etc. I'm pretty sure it could be useful to Falcon.

Ex: Sheild shffl nair -> shine to wavedash OOS your own nair. I think that would work. Better than rolling anyway and gives you a mixup from jumping OOS.

 

[PEEF!]

Just tried the WD OOS nairs. If you don't do this you should try. Its not the easiest thing I've ever done, but combined with a fully retreating Nair (the kind that come from the sexy backflip jump) this covers all bases. Not easy but something that deserves attention.

This is also great coupled with a retreating turnaround stomp if you are interested less in countering his shield pressure and more in getting the hell out of there. If he chases you he gets stomped, and I dont think there is any way he can get to you before your stomp comes out as long as you can get the wavedash off.

Even WD OOS to Ftilt shows promise.

I love this game.

 

[DrewB008]

i forgot about wd oos, i started doing that recently and totally love it but havent adapted my answers to questions on the internet yet apparently

i like to do it backwards as people approach too, shield so they think they can space an aerial or w/e then wd back oos, then you can either run in and grab them in their lag or shieldgrab them when they land in front of you when they thought they'd land behind you

 

[PEEF!]

More good ideas. Dman son this game is infinitely deep.

 

[_marth1_]

best thing against fox is just to run away and back air a lot
if the fox is really campy with lasers (kels) you can ran at him a little so he tries to come at you with a nair

 

[GhettoSheep]

**** guys, i take it back these boards dont suck

There's a lot of awesome advice in this thread, especially WD OOS. That is too sexy...

Also, is there anyway to DI the shine or something so I don't get stuck waveshine -> Usmash? Does cc -> jab work?

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Uhh, be careful. Shieldgrabbing is one of the best things you'll do vs. fox, but don't grab to punish lag, because he will shine to **** you. If he's overly offensive, dashdance like a mofo and nair approach to grab. Shield grabbing is key, tho. To avoid waveshining, crouch cancel or di like a ***** and be sexy.

TLDR nair more

Also, don't rely on tech chasing unless you KNOW you can tech chase perfectly. Every time he's on the ground that should be a stock.

 

[Proverbs]

Any tips on how to get grabs off on really fast/offensive foxes who love to run away and then come in with shffl'd aerials and l-cancelled shines?

Did no one else notice this?

Lol, you can't l-cancel shines XP

 

[young wus]

lol, L-Cancel shines.

-but u can hold ur shield then attempt a grab.

-short hop your N-air(repeat)

-simply mind game him.

 

[GhettoSheep]

Did no one else notice this?

Lol, you can't l-cancel shines XP

lol, obviously I meant shffl'd aerials into shines

edited*

 

[PEEF!]

Every time he's on the ground that should be a stock.

I wish!



(......Techchasing tips)

 

[Ja]

Might have been said.

dd camp