TL Up-Smash?

[TheFast]

Ok so I hear all these people saying save it. Well I believe Tooney Up-Smash can be used two different ways never both at one but here are some things that I believe.

1) You can spam it.
2) You can kill with it.
Is there a way to do both?

OK when you are at high damages and your opponent is at low damages I say spam it. Most people say save it but as I see it, I'm going to die soon and all my moves will auto refresh. Up-smash is a good damage dealing move that can be spammed. Connulsion in this situation its good to spam it.

However when I'm at low damage and my opponent is, lets pick a random number, above 80% than you should save it. It is one of you best killing moves after all. If not the best . So I don't feel it is good just to tell people to save it. Random Upsmashs can put pressure on the oppenent and set up for great mindgames. Knowing when to spam it or save it is the trick.

Another factor is Character Match Up. Fat people are easy to get to high damages and light characters die at low damages. Both of these types it would be better to save your Up smash. But medium characters Toon Link has a little more trouble with. I think Up Smash is a good damaging move for Med weights you can get good damage off and still get it refreshed in time to kill them.

By spamming and not saying constantly using it making it easy to predict. I am saying to use it alot though. Dont always try to approach the same way. Make sure you are mixing it up and keeping your opponent guessing.

Note: Boomerang --> Arrow --> Hyphen Smash
You get Boomerang Arrow, 2nd Boomerang and than the upsmash hit all really fast. If the oppent rolls wrong, spot dodges wrong, or try to sheild all four hits they will most likely get caught in your upsmash.

Please tell me what you think my ideas of Toon Links Up smash. I mean I could be complete wrong. Because I see all these people saying don't spam it. But I like to spam it.

 

[TLMarth]

Yes if you're going to die spam it but if you're not save it.

 

[Shadow Moth]

LOL you spelled conclusion wrong.

Anyway. You shouldn't always spam it on a medium character. Some can easily defend against/counter that tactic (shortest sword in the game FTW! XD ). Also I'm pretty sure (but I'm just pretty as well... JK) that F-smash is a better kill move. Mainly because it has it's own mind-games (F-smash = INSTANT MIND CRUSH)
That said, U-smash is is a good all-around move and can be used frequently. However, combo-ing into it might be a better idea on the whole. Not only will it do more damage and have more knockback than if you had just used it, it is fast and covers a wide range. Anything that lightly knocks your opponent just above or in front of you will make for a good setup.

 

[Jman115]

Fsmash is NOT a better kill move. If you are talking sheer strength/knockback then yes. But if you take into account a few other things, Fsmash is not nearly as good as Usmash.

1) Fsmash is harder to land a hit with. Also, IF you land an Fsmash, there are numerous characters who can SDI out of the first hit and evade the second hit which has all of the knockback.
2) In most stages that TL plays on, there is a reasonable ceiling. No matter where you stand on any given platform the ceiling is the same distance from you. Stages with platforms actually help you because they make the ceiling even closer.
The opposite is true of Fsmash that kills horizontally. Where you are on the stage and which direction you are facing is crucial. If you are facing right but on the left side of the stage, F smash will prove to be useless as a kill move in that instance.

I think you have to gauge the situation and matchup. There are some stages/matchups that make it easier to pull off other kill moves. In that instance I usually don't mind using Usmash more frivolously as it racks up damage quick if the opponent is not used to TL.

Especially on bigger characters at low percents they literally cannot escape a spam until you rack up like 50-70% on them. Although this can be accomplished with uptilt as well. The other perk of bigger characters is they tend to be slower making it easier to hit moves like Fsmash. So you do have other options.

Overall you are much better off saving it u smash.

 

[Shadow Moth]

Hmm. I guess so. Thanks for the opinion, I'm going to stop using F-smash so much now.
But when you say that I'm better off saving it, what is "it"? Up or forward smash?

 

[Jman115]

Up smash. Sorry about that. Fixed it.

 

[DCStyle]

I spam on characters I can send higher up at low percentages to combo, then rack up percentages to just down smash and edge hog/guard or u-air for the kill. On heavier characters, I tend to work on edge guard kills. On slower characters, I spam up smash to set up for heavier combos.

It's all up to your playing style.

 

[-Cake-]

yeah i personally like to spam my up smash

 

[Bomber7]

bomb then hyphen smash ftw. =D

 

[iRjOn]

thats why you have utilt
:D

 

[ExCeL 52]

If your opponent is at low damage.. You up tilt .. which works way better than a smash and is quicker.. then you can save it .. and use it at a high percentage.

 

[TLMarth]

Alternatively you can spam your upsmash because it's easier to use (hyphen smash), then kill with Utilt. It's harder to do though.

 

[iRjOn]

Alternatively you can spam your upsmash because it's easier to use (hyphen smash), then kill with Utilt. It's harder to do though.

What?

We're talking about damage racking not killing lol

 

[SmashKilla]

i like to spam my Down Smash since i got great accuracy and im usually flying in the air since im so light. I would usually damage them up till 60%+ then SPAM SMASH ATTACKS!! xD

 

[TheFast]

Srry Iron i ment to say

"because it's easier to hit with (hyphen smash), than his Utilt. "

 

[Shadow Moth]

@SmashKilla: That wouldn't work on anyone proficient at dodging and shielding/ reading attacks or attack patterns. That probably also wouldn't work on anybody you've played before.
Better to spam smashes (if you must, though it isn't intelligent or efficient in most cases) in the beginning of a match to rack up damage because every time you use a move, it's power and knock back decrease unless you use a lot of other moves too. Therefore, every time you land a smash attack or miss with it, you lower your chances of killing with the next one that hits ('cept for F-Smash which does crazy damage if you land both hits. Too bad it's easy to see coming and has considerable lag).

 

[SmashKilla]

Oh, so Shadow Moth, what is usually your finishing attack or to damage your opponent like crazy?

 

[Rawrness]

fsmash mindgamez ftw.
I've broken a few shields by faking the second hit and using the first hit again.

 

[Shadow Moth]

Damage= bombs arrows and any aerial that isn't fair (yea, I uair too much before I get ,y foe to kill %s).

I also use tilts but they can be limited. Toon Link does damage quickly but unlike most other characters, he does it by hitting the opponent over and over and over again to rack up damage. He really does have very few moves that hit for a lot of damage but he's quick to attack.
I also like to hyphen smash every once in a while.

Kill moves= The same ones everyone uses generally: uair, u-smash, fair.

I'm not saying f-smash is bad. It isn't. It just can be really hard to land it on a decent opponent without setting it up. Still not easy to land on a skilled/decent opponent.

 

[ImpactAR]

I can see how you can "see" that the Up Smash is a good damaging move due to it's speed and the use as a hyphen smash. However, spamming the Up Smash is a bad idea due to the diminishing factor. Up Smash is TL most reliable kill move and you do not want to overuse if where you'll lose a good kill option.

Now you can use it every once in a while, but you need to find another punishing options until your opponent is at KO range. A quick dash and Nair is probably your next best bet. If done correctly it does connect a bit faster and it's safer with the option to short hop or full jump with DI control.

Forward Smash becomes crap against players who know how to deal with it. Easy to avoid the second hit even if the first connects. Really the best situation for this move is when you use your first swing to push your opponent off the edge and connect with the second swing.

Your KOs should mostly be from Up Smashes, some from opportunities for once-in-a-while Uairs or Fairs, or unplanned Nair when the opponent is at a bad spot on the stage.

Hope that helps.

 

[xmisosoupx]

All im hearing right now is spamming the upsmash when u at high % and opponent at low %... but this could prove pointless if you and your opponent are on your last stock, because what if you actually get them to a % that you can kill them easily with and you land a dulled out upsmash that would have killed if it werent so dulled out...

so i think you should fix that to upsmash at high % and when ur opponent at low % if and only if you are not on your last stock

 

[CaliburChamp]

Invinci-Bomb to up-smash pwns hard!

 

[TLMSheikant]

Dont spam usmash. Even if u are gonna get killed it is usually not the best option since u will get punished and u might lose the stock. Stay with damage racking the normal way. (Nair, Bair, arrow cancels, bombs, rang and zair) Spamming smashes will get u punished in terrible ways in competitive play.

 

[TheFast]

Yes but there are ways to use your upsmash without being punished. Maybe the word choice spam wasnt the best pick. I mean use more than three times per life. Also I agree with you Miso its never good to "spam" it when you are on your last stock. But it can be a good damaging move. All of you underestimate Toonlinks Down Smash. It is a good killing move when you save it and upsmash is a better damage than D-smash. So lets say downsmash is hard to pull of cuz it is an aerail character, mid weight, lets say Luigi. Upsmash is an effective counter to some of his aerails. and down-smash would be hard to pull off so if you saved down smash for the moment when you know it would hit you could most like kill with it if you saved it and know its killing percents. Or you could save upsmash because of how easy it is to hit Luigi with when he gets in killing range you can kill him that much easyer. Both are good tactics. You can use either one which was my point.

 

[VietGeek]

Spam has such a negative connotation usually if you're asking a question with the word choice in the question, people will generally ALWAYS ignore whatever specifics are in the question and just say no.

Btw, "spamming" Usmash on a shield does not diminish the attack. Random tidbit of information. Random tidbit.

 

[TLMarth]

So Fast you're saying-

if you 'spam' Upsmash you can use Dsmash?
I like using Dsmash after jab, even if it's not a real combo.

 

[Silver Swordsman]

Another random tidbit is if you're going for a hyphen smash, you can always turn around and quickly jump, then cancel the jump with a usmash (RAR+JC) to reverse the direction you're facing when you usmash. Not overly useful, but it could be used for mindgames or something

 

[ImpactAR]

I guess my first explanation was too long people don't read. I guess I'll give a quick opinion.

It is ideal Up Smash/Hyphen-Smash if your opponent is in KO range, otherwise iNair or Dash iNair to punish.

 

[Tianxiazhai]

I use it as a protective move.
It covers all sides.

 

[iRjOn]

If what you say is the case Fast
Then your still forgetting the slim chance Dsmash will hit and instead of killing the trouble some Luigi at 100ish%
Your going to wait for that slim chance of hitting at 130ish%.
Dsmash is underestimated but way harder to hit with.
The kill power is less thus it nearly only kills fresh.

Thats why utilt is a better option it cant hyphen but if you apppy it correctly you can spam it and rack up more damage then 1 upsmash could.
And theres a lesser chance of being punished.

Listen Fast we aren't saying your idea is stupid or crazy.
By far its a kool idea.
But 2 facts outwieght this kool idea.
1. Toon Link has better and safer options.
2. Usmash is one of your most important kill moves which Toon Link, if you dont rememeber, has VERY few of.
Its easier to hit with than uair and fair.
So thus your most important one.

Hope this helps you think this through Fast man.
:D

 

[TheFast]

Iunno I play a Yoshi all the time and it just seems like the only move I can catch him with. Maybe Yoshi is just different than other characters in brawl (HE IS) but I feel if anything upsmash is your best friend when fighting Yoshi >_< Ill agree with you on other asspect but than again im not that good of a Toon Link. I only really have experience fighting Yoshi. I \ Damage with upsmash, projectiles, and Zair than kill with Fair.

But what Viet say makes me think. If upsmash hit their sheild it doesnt not diminish. Does this mean we might be able to use it as a pressure move?

 

[iRjOn]

Not really cause what if they drop their shield...
You wasted a usmash...

 

[TheFast]

I think yall are underestimating how quickly TL can refresh his move. He has quick hits in his grabs and 3 quick projectiles.

 

[iRjOn]

I'd love to see you grab enough to refresh usmash...
3 great projectiles dont help you refresh a move that quickly if you and you opponet are at kill%

Also the stale moves list holds more than 3 moves like 5 I think...bair will be one and your projectiles will almost always be up there anyway.
nair will take a spot or utilt...

But forget what I just typed and think of how usmash can be punished if used to rack up damage.
These are all my beliefs not set in stone so their might be a way to disprove me idk...

 

[SuSa]

stale moves list holds 7 moves, each spot with a different amount of % lost, the earlier used, the more % lost, the further down the list, the less percent lost. When multiple times I believe the %'s are added together then subtracted or w/e.

I remember seeing a thread about it. it's 7 or 8, 7 seems more correct.

 

[Sosuke]

I thought it was 9.

@_@

 

[TheFast]

umm i thought it was like 9 two. But really each hit of TL jab combo and each hit of TLs grab count as seperate hits not to mention TL Forward smash can get two different hits of. Quick attacking jabs such as kirby and Captain falcon only count the first two Toon Link gets all three hits in. Plus each hit from a projectile counts two I mean refreshing moves isnt that hard with Toon Link. At leas thats my oppion.

 

[iRjOn]

Thats still beyond how punishable using upsmash to rack up damage.
I could understand if it was like Warios or Diddy Kongs.
Just one hit though...
And the kool down is enough to be punished.
But it doesn't matter to me idc any more
:\

Thanx for correcting me guys
:]
I thought it was something like 7,8,or 9 but meh second guessed my self.

 

[Hue]

The game remembers the last 9 moves used on the list of "stale moves."

 

[Sosuke]

Also, you cannever "fully" refresh a move in when you use it.
Its just a tad weaker if you've already used it once, regardless of how many moves you used after that.