professor mgw
Smash Champion
It depends how fast u r with button pressing. A SH only provides little time 4 u to ibomb.Is it possible to SH -> bomb pull -> ibomb -> Dsmash?
Yeah
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
It depends how fast u r with button pressing. A SH only provides little time 4 u to ibomb.Is it possible to SH -> bomb pull -> ibomb -> Dsmash?
Yeah
MAN! He was still flying off screen.... That means that I got super situational killed. Lucky punk (towards my brother, Arc-thefallen-). I wonder if he did it on purpose knowing that... :/....err...snake's mines disappear when he dies... must of been a c4.(unless he was still flying out of the screen)
Yep u can do SH>bomb pull>bomb drop>dsmash. It needs timing tho (isnt THAT hard) and the only kinda hard part is that sometimes dtilt comes out instead of dsmash because of Sakurai's dumb cstick tilts on landing. >_>
Oh, yea we fiddled for like 3 minutes to get that SH BCD footage, however, it was the 'flame version' where the opponent isn't sent that far. It is very possible to do the non-flame version (full power) if you get the timing--try it in slo-mo training... you can nail the full version every time. My brother found out something on the side: f anyone finds the timing kind of tight, try z-dropping and pivoting the d-smash. Since the pivot input is there as you land, the chances of doing d-tilt by accident will decrease a little (similar to the down input of jab-cancelling) and since its a buffer (occurs on the first frame possible), the d-smash will almost always land a clean, full BCD if it does come out. Although this approach can guarentee a more successful BCD on SH, it does require you to be facing/SH facing away from the opponent since it's a pivot D-smash. The good thing is that the z-drop bomb is clearly away from the opponent (so it doesn't get interrupted) and it adds more to TL's retreating defensive (or b-air O_O) game. Both can work and the more tech-savvy TL can take advantage of the first one better (although the problem of the opponent running into the bomb is more likely in the first one (bomb is sorta in front of you) without i-bombing. Doing the i-bomb SH version... i haven't tested that as much yet (i need by brother's TL tech skills for that--i can't test right now :'( ).TL requires tech skill lololol. Now I have to learn the exact timing of the landing into dsmash :/. I sometimes explode before the dsmash, do dtilt landing or I buffer way too soon >_>. *keeps trying*
Actually, LegendaryPikachu told me a while ago, that Arc reckons it's possible to do a SH, Bomb Pull, Z-drop (Not Invincibomb), D-smash but you have to be like frame perfect. I haven't actually tested this myself, but maybe LP can confirm?
Edit: Yeah that's what he does @ 8:20. I'm guessing it works because the Bomb is still 'active' for that split second but I can't really see. Good old white aura.
Actually, a SH bomb pull > throw into an opponents sheild (bomb pops up) > jab-cancells into BCD when the bomb lands might be the fastest practical offensive take on the BCD. We'll see as time goes by.Wow! So that would make it the fastest way to perform it so far.
So now instead of a SH Bomb Pull Quickdraw, if we think they are to close and might punish, we can whip this out instead. This is already developing quite quickly. The more stuff like this we know, the less situational it is, and the more useful it becomes. (Thanks for confirming TLMS.)
That sounds pretty darn hard to pull off. I'll give it a go though because it sounds like one of the best ways to perform this so far.My brother found out something on the side: f anyone finds the timing kind of tight, try z-dropping and pivoting the d-smash. Since the pivot input is there as you land, the chances of doing d-tilt by accident will decrease a little (similar to the down input of jab-cancelling) and since its a buffer (occurs on the first frame possible), the d-smash will almost always land a clean, full BCD if it does come out. Although this approach can guarentee a more successful BCD on SH, it does require you to be facing/SH facing away from the opponent since it's a pivot D-smash. The good thing is that the z-drop bomb is clearly away from the opponent (so it doesn't get interrupted) and it adds more to TL's retreating defensive (or b-air O_O) game.
Other then relying on the bomb hitting their shield, I'm loving this idea. Shield pressure to BCD sounds so possible to pull off as well.Actually, a SH bomb pull > throw into an opponents sheild (bomb pops up) > jab-cancells into BCD when the bomb lands might be the fastest practical offensive take on the BCD. We'll see as time goes by.
you could test this out yourself.... I don't have bBrawl at the moment.Since the area I play at mainly plays BBrawl, do you know if the angle changes to the Tink's D-Smash would make this better/worse?
I would but I even with all of my practicing I can't manage to pull it off in vBrawl just yet.you could test this out yourself.... I don't have bBrawl at the moment.
If you got replays/footage.... SEND IT TO ME! T_T1 kill on ICs, 1 kill at delfino on a G&W, and I messed up and got a flame version on a falco.
And I managed to get it once in friendlies against an olimar. And they were good players too, the falco and oli are on the PR for new england, so it's not something that will just work on scrubs.
We'll cross that bridge when we come to it, then we'll turn around and burn the bridge. For now, people still don't expect it let alone know what it is. So until then, I say we destroy as many poor unsuspecting opponents as we can.The problem with that is people will expect it, and that will start quick.
So now you guys need to develop reliable set-ups for it, stuff that works when your opponent expects it, or at the very least, forces your opponent to go for an alternative that advantages you.
But developing a variety of ways to utilize it as well as other options out of it just make it better at dealing with unsuspecting opponents now, and make it usable when people do expect it, improving your metagame significantly.We'll cross that bridge when we come to it, then we'll turn around and burn the bridge. For now, people still don't expect it let alone know what it is. So until then, I say we destroy as many poor unsuspecting opponents as we can.
The concern is more that they'll shield on reaction or control the airspace that's required for execution.Even when people realise BCD is a real threat, I don't think it'll be to hard to land since they have to approach us eventually (unless you're falco or something), regardless of whether or not we have a bomb in hand or air, which is 20-45% of the time.
they'll just react swifter offstage and have a predetermined method of recovering.
Wasn't that basically what I said?We not only have different set ups that they'll need to look out for, but if it's predicted, we have bail out options that can be used to punish people who try to avoid it. I see no problem with people starting to expect it, it just means that we can use their fear against them. It's a win win situation.
1) Well through the development of this thread, there have been suggested setups already and I will select post some of the more convincing setups once frames and other people's experience comes into this thread. For instance, if TL i-bombs > BCD, z-air can come out during any airdodge frame before landing. Assuming that marth does shielding or f-air zoning, if the TL airdodges the hit and spaces the distance of z-air then Marth's would get shield pressured or hit by z-air. Its a 'conservative' setup where one either accomplishes nothing, does residual damage either with landing bomb or z-air, could do a fair amount of shield crippling (especially if the opponent takes a falling z-air>d-smash), or outright completes the BCD.But developing a variety of ways to utilize it as well as other options out of it just make it better at dealing with unsuspecting opponents now, and make it usable when people do expect it, improving your metagame significantly.
1) So, you wanna cross this bridge now, and burn it, and poor salt on the surrounding area.
The concern is more that they'll shield on reaction or control the airspace that's required for execution.
For example, the current state of the tech doesn't effect marth at all, barely even if he doesn't know to expect it, because he'll be zoning that location viciously, which means you'll get hit and probably juggled.
2) Wasn't that basically what I said?
From my personal experience, what sasukebowser says here does bear some truth in it. I am pretty much sure that only marths in particular would scope out the entire workings of this move (since the whole of Marth boards seem to give off a very systematic calculating aura anyways), whereas only the top 2% of the mains of any OTHER characters would keep this move in mind (at an enough level of awareness which shuts off TL's BCD attempts) when playing the matchup between TL.I promise you that only like, 1-2% (if even) of high level competitive players will be looking out for this. In a month or two, no one will be looking for this.
That's awesome. And then take a piss on the fire to put it out once most of the bridge has burned.So, you wanna cross this bridge now, and burn it, and poor salt on the surrounding area.
Not exactly. You said,Wasn't that basically what I said?
You were sort of implying that we didn't yet have set ups and stuff that works when our opponent expects it. And I pretty much answered you (I was also just talking to McDingus) by saying,The problem with that is people will expect it, and that will start quick.
So now you guys need to develop reliable set-ups for it, stuff that works when your opponent expects it, or at the very least, forces your opponent to go for an alternative that advantages you.
No worries though. Thanks again.We not only have different set ups that they'll need to look out for, but if it's predicted, we have bail out options that can be used to punish people who try to avoid it. I see no problem with people starting to expect it, it just means that we can use their fear against them. It's a win win situation.
yea... i posted a frame by frame look and according to the data, TL has about 100+frames of potential invincibility if he uses up all tethers and only allows 3 frames ANYWHERE in between for marth/mario to regrab (TL is still invincible) if done perfectly. Look here for frame data: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=8407197#post8407197Pulled it off today on a martha and it was saved on someone's wii. I'll try to find it so I can get it up here.
And again on a decent falco but that one wasn't saved.
And I feel like marth doesn't really have a chance bc it wasn't hard at all to just re-tether the ledge
LOL! He must be a good pillow talker."LDPK, you're not gonna get me with the 1 hit ko.... Oh no no no... you're NOT..."
and someone does something smart with this finally.Ok, so what I'm about to say is a whole lot of ****.
Me and Gords were stuffing around with tech skillz and random stuff (along with some Toon ditto's, which are also ****, but that's not what I'm talking about.) and, well let me just tell you.
Bomb Pull, SH, Bomb throw (Bomb bounces off opponents shield), Zair their shield (you need to hit Airdodge and Zair in order for it to work), Jab, Cancel the Jab with D-smash.
The whole thing happens so quickly which = shield pressure.
So what happens is, if they don't shield anything, you'll get em with a Bomb to Zair.
If they shield just the Bomb, you'll get a Zair (to Nair or grab or whatever).
If they shield the Bomb and the Zair, you will Jab them and then D-smash them and the Bomb that bounced off the shield will interupt the second hit of D-smash (= BCD!!).
If they shield the Bomb the Zair and the Jab, the D-smash will still BCD. (Only the timing is a little harder because of the shield hit lag from the Jab.)
If they shield everything including the D-smash, then at the right percents, you can Bair out of the blast of the Bomb, and it will break their shield. (Percent too low and you won't be able to Bair before you touch the ground. Percent too high and the hitstun will be too much and they'll be able to get out.)
This can also be done from the ledge. Just hit away from the ledge and it's all in the timing of the double jump then the rest is the same.
So yeah, shield pressure to BCD? I think so! And it doesn't hurt to have another way to use it.
Oh yeah, and he actually killed me with it and I was Toon. Yeah. Get ***** Foxy.