Toad/Captain Toad for Smash, Toad Brigade Assemble!

[Otoad64]

Super Mario 3D World is the sequel to New Super Mario Bros. U

???

no it's not

how sequels work in Mario games in moreso based on the gameplay rather than the story, seeing as for the most part the story is usually just there as a justification for the gameplay

3D World is the sequel to 3D Land, because they play extremely similiarly, even though there is no in universe connection

 

[Laniv]

So what are the chances of us getting something toad related for the direct, even if it isn't smash?

 

[Otoad64]

So what are the chances of us getting something toad related for the direct, even if it isn't smash?

low, unless something Mario related that has Toad counts as Toad related, then high

 

[fogbadge]

so i 100% bowser's fury yesterday

Spoiler

and yes theyre in it

 

[YoshiandToad]

So what are the chances of us getting something toad related for the direct, even if it isn't smash?

We might get something tangentially related news if a new Mario related game is announced.

But man, imagine if we got a Captain Toad 2 announcement...

I have a question about the mainline Mario games. Are the mainline Mario games episodic/connected to each other?

Eh, sort of but mostly not really.
Ironically Captain Toad is the only one with a real canonical connection between games so this was a good place to ask.

Captain Toad Treasure Tracker acts as a prequel for 3D World in the Wii U version, Odyssey in the Switch and 3DS versions and lastly as a prequel to New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe.

Yoshi's Island is absolutely the first game canonically since it stars Baby Mario, Baby Luigi and Baby Bowser.

Mario + Luigi's series are canonically sequels to one another as Fawful connects the first three games rather nicely.

Any game that has Jr in it takes place after Sunshine, but that's about it for the canon of Super Mario.

so i 100% bowser's fury yesterday

Spoiler

and yes theyre in it

Nice to see Toadette got her own headlamp!
Surprised she didn't join the rest of the Brigade in the main campaign as an option since her model is now in the game.

 

[fogbadge]

Nice to see Toadette got her own headlamp!
Surprised she didn't join the rest of the Brigade in the main campaign as an option since her model is now in the game.

she had a headlamp in treasure tracker

 

[YoshiandToad]

she had a headlamp in treasure tracker

I thought it was implied it was the Captain's as she never wore it when he was around, only putting it on when he was kidnapped...and she didn't keep it in Odyssey either.

Although thinking about it the Special Episode had both of them lamping it up in order to do the Boo Hunt missions, so guess so.

 

[fogbadge]

I thought it was implied it was the Captain's as she never wore it when he was around, only putting it on when he was kidnapped...and she didn't keep it in Odyssey either.

Although thinking about it the Special Episode had both of them lamping it up in order to do the Boo Hunt missions, so guess so.

the cap was still wearing it when hes kidnapped and the rescued

 

[Doc Monocle]

Add me to that list, fogbadge! I shall be honest, I have almost never seen Toad in action, but if he is so important to the Mario team, I think he should be included. The only question is this: What should become of Peach's counter-attack?

 

[YoshiandToad]

Add me to that list, fogbadge! I shall be honest, I have almost never seen Toad in action, but if he is so important to the Mario team, I think he should be included. The only question is this: What should become of Peach's counter-attack?

I personally quite like the idea of swapping Toad out for the partner she had in Super Princess Peach, Perry:

But Toadsworth or even keeping Toad as Peach's counter and a player character could still work. Chrom does it after all, and he doesn't even have any lookalikes.

Toad spotted in the latest Mario Golf game too, this is the best pic of him atm:

Appears to be a playable character which is nice. This series ignored him for a long time until the 3DS title, so it's good to see him making more regular playable appearances in Camelot's sports titles.

 

[fogbadge]

Add me to that list, fogbadge! I shall be honest, I have almost never seen Toad in action, but if he is so important to the Mario team, I think he should be included. The only question is this: What should become of Peach's counter-attack?

Done. Welcome to the brigade

 

[Otoad64]

I personally quite like the idea of swapping Toad out for the partner she had in Super Princess Peach, Perry:

But Toadsworth or even keeping Toad as Peach's counter and a player character could still work. Chrom does it after all, and he doesn't even have any lookalikes.

Toad spotted in the latest Mario Golf game too, this is the best pic of him atm:

View attachment 303688

Appears to be a playable character which is nice. This series ignored him for a long time until the 3DS title, so it's good to see him making more regular playable appearances in Camelot's sports titles.

the new outfits for the Mario Golf game look nice

interesting this game seems to be having a more realistic artstyle

 

[Munomario777]

just finished this, figured you guys might enjoy

(if you’re curious how the moveset works etc, there’s a longer showcase here, too)

 

[YoshiandToad]

just finished this, figured you guys might enjoy

(if you’re curious how the moveset works etc, there’s a longer showcase here, too)

Love it. Absolutely love it.

Incredibly creative work! The Bee Suit is something I've never considered myself but he did debut in Galaxy alongside it so the references fit him well.

Just saw Akira too, beautiful stuff my man!

 

[fogbadge]

just finished this, figured you guys might enjoy

(if you’re curious how the moveset works etc, there’s a longer showcase here, too)

ive never played Rival of aether but id like to give you full marks

 

[Otoad64]

just finished this, figured you guys might enjoy

(if you’re curious how the moveset works etc, there’s a longer showcase here, too)

that looks great!


the Bee Suit and Luma are interesting choices but it seems like you're trying to focus far more on his Galaxy origins than most concepts i've seen

 

[fogbadge]

It feels like toad all over again

 

[YoshiandToad]

It feels like toad all over again

???

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It feels like toad all over again

It feels like a missing Nintendo All-Star??

 

[fogbadge]

It feels like toad all over again

It feels like a missing Nintendo All-Star??

oh i did that thing where i forgot the full explanation again. pyra/mythra being chosen over rex feels juts a little like, doc, PP, daisy and the koopalings getting chosen over toad

 

[Otoad64]

oh i did that thing where i forgot the full explanation again. pyra/mythra being chosen over rex feels juts a little like, doc, PP, daisy and the koopalings getting chosen over toad

I would say it's worse for Rex as there is pretty much no reason to add Rex now.

 

[fogbadge]

I would say it's worse for Rex as there is pretty much no reason to add Rex now.

maybe

 

[Otoad64]

maybe

well doesn't Rex literally just use Pyra/Mythra's swords?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

oh i did that thing where i forgot the full explanation again. pyra/mythra being chosen over rex feels juts a little like, doc, PP, daisy and the koopalings getting chosen over toad

Doc and Daisy were at least clones/echoes, so that's a bit more understandable. Koopalings/Bowser Jr. sucks too. I guess it was a cool moveset idea(and they barely got in). PP was a special "not a hero" character, so he wasn't really chosen over Toad. It'd have been a non-hero regardless. Rosalina however would count, since she's a unique and not special situation character.

I'd say it's just the Koopalings that legit counts. Same with Rosalina. Those are the only unique characters in before Toad. After you had Bowser and Peach(Luigi is a clone too), the big ones. I'm loosely counting Yoshi too, but different franchise technically. And it goes without saying Wario and DK are their own series, so... don't count either.

 

[Otoad64]

personally, if I was in charge of Smash, Toad would've been in Brawl over like, Zero Suit Samus

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

personally, if I was in charge of Smash, Toad would've been in Brawl over like, Zero Suit Samus

I feel that's just shorting Metroid a cool character.

Just add him without removing a non-clone at best. Or remove no one. If anyone, it should be the same franchise and a unique character that didn't have a hard special circumstance, imo.

 

[fogbadge]

well doesn't Rex literally just use Pyra/Mythra's swords?

True but Marth, Chrom and Lucina use the same sword as do two of the three links

Doc and Daisy were at least clones/echoes, so that's a bit more understandable. Koopalings/Bowser Jr. sucks too. I guess it was a cool moveset idea(and they barely got in). PP was a special "not a hero" character, so he wasn't really chosen over Toad. It'd have been a non-hero regardless. Rosalina however would count, since she's a unique and not special situation character.

I'd say it's just the Koopalings that legit counts. Same with Rosalina. Those are the only unique characters in before Toad. After you had Bowser and Peach(Luigi is a clone too), the big ones. I'm loosely counting Yoshi too, but different franchise technically. And it goes without saying Wario and DK are their own series, so... don't count either.

Well chosen instead of rather than over. We don’t even know if toad was ever even considered. Jr himself I didn’t mind cause I was willing to believe he was very likely as a character it’s the koopalings bug me but I’m tired of them in everything. Rosalina for some reason doesn’t bother me. And I just don’t like daisy at all so I’d be annoyed with her inclusion regardless of toad. PP just confuses me at this point cause it feels like we only ever got half an explanation for it. The spin off crew I have no problem with

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well chosen instead of rather than over. We don’t even know if toad was ever even considered. Jr himself I didn’t mind cause I was willing to believe he was very likely as a character it’s the koopalings bug me but I’m tired of them in everything. Rosalina for some reason doesn’t bother me. And I just don’t like daisy at all so I’d be annoyed with her inclusion regardless of toad. PP just confuses me at this point cause it feels like we only ever got half an explanation for it. The spin off crew I have no problem with

What I mean is Toad couldn't have been on the table due to not being a clone character in any way. He doesn't share a similar enough bodyshape to be even a Luigi at that point.

I get what you mean, though, now. Thanks for clearing that up~

It's possible he wasn't considered, true. Though it feels like him not having a unique ability may be related, but honestly, I feel like it's more(as someone pointed out a while back somewhere) a unique ability in Smash to use, not that they can't have the same abilities otherwise. I.E. He could bring item power-ups to the table, despite it not being a true unique ability. Though it helps Captain Toad has his own separate abilities, so he could get chosen instead.

Toad I definitely want to see already(admittedly I expected Dr. Mario before him when it came to returning characters in 4 and Brawl. But he's easy to make, so it makes sense). I'm not the biggest fan of Captain Toad, as some may know, but I'd take both in just to show off how unique they are from each other anyway. Hell, I wouldn't mind if they were a duo transformation character(like Zelda/Sheik are), having two movesets with two focuses. They could have various alts related to Toadette and Captain Toadette too? Toad is a fast jumping character, but less power, and Captain Toad is a power character, with horrid jumping(or special jump animations to make it look like he can't jump in itself).

Not that I honestly support them as a duo, but it's just an idle thought of "this could be cool".

 

[fogbadge]

What I mean is Toad couldn't have been on the table due to not being a clone character in any way. He doesn't share a similar enough bodyshape to be even a Luigi at that point.

I get what you mean, though, now. Thanks for clearing that up~

It's possible he wasn't considered, true. Though it feels like him not having a unique ability may be related, but honestly, I feel like it's more(as someone pointed out a while back somewhere) a unique ability in Smash to use, not that they can't have the same abilities otherwise. I.E. He could bring item power-ups to the table, despite it not being a true unique ability. Though it helps Captain Toad has his own separate abilities, so he could get chosen instead.

Toad I definitely want to see already(admittedly I expected Dr. Mario before him when it came to returning characters in 4 and Brawl. But he's easy to make, so it makes sense). I'm not the biggest fan of Captain Toad, as some may know, but I'd take both in just to show off how unique they are from each other anyway. Hell, I wouldn't mind if they were a duo transformation character(like Zelda/Sheik are), having two movesets with two focuses. They could have various alts related to Toadette and Captain Toadette too? Toad is a fast jumping character, but less power, and Captain Toad is a power character, with horrid jumping(or special jump animations to make it look like he can't jump in itself).

Not that I honestly support them as a duo, but it's just an idle thought of "this could be cool".

Sounds cool to me, but unlike yourself I love all toads

Well except zip.t in TYD that guy was a jerk

 

[Otoad64]

I feel that's just shorting Metroid a cool character.

Just add him without removing a non-clone at best. Or remove no one. If anyone, it should be the same franchise and a unique character that didn't have a hard special circumstance, imo.

well it's because there probably wouldn't be enough dev time to just add an extra character to Brawl. And when it comes to removing unique Brawl newcomers Zero Suit would be top of the list. And I can't replace another Mario character if he's to be added in Brawl because Brawl added no Mario characters. If he were to be added in Smash 4 though he would replace Rosalina

True but Marth, Chrom and Lucina use the same sword as do two of the three links

yeah but they're all clones/echoes of eachother so not a good example.

basically I'm pretty sure all of Rex's abilites are basically Pyra/Mythra's abilites. Though i'm not too familiar with Xenoblade so I could be wrong

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

well it's because there probably wouldn't be enough dev time to just add an extra character to Brawl. And when it comes to removing unique Brawl newcomers Zero Suit would be top of the list. And I can't replace another Mario character if he's to be added in Brawl because Brawl added no Mario characters. If he were to be added in Smash 4 though he would replace Rosalina

Finally, someone who realizes Brawl is the only one who didn't give a new Mario character. Wario nor Diddy count. XD

But fair enough. You are right. I was saying I'd rather have him in than a clone/echo, not that it's realistic. I like unique movesets. But it's worth noting I don't care if they're the same person or not. Though it helps that ZSS was added to be both a female and Metroid newcomer, so I feel she's one of the best ones to keep in. ...Just with her Ultimate design. I don't like that Brawl changed her bodyshape to emphasize the sexiness. >.<;

 

[fogbadge]

yeah but they're all clones/echoes of eachother so not a good example.

basically I'm pretty sure all of Rex's abilites are basically Pyra/Mythra's abilites. Though i'm not too familiar with Xenoblade so I could be wrong

Well no because he has access to other blades and more abilities. So a large majority of his signature abilities are gone but not all of them. He also has a move that’s not connected to any blades

 

[Dan]

Well chosen instead of rather than over. We don’t even know if toad was ever even considered. Jr himself I didn’t mind cause I was willing to believe he was very likely as a character it’s the koopalings bug me but I’m tired of them in everything. Rosalina for some reason doesn’t bother me. And I just don’t like daisy at all so I’d be annoyed with her inclusion regardless of toad. PP just confuses me at this point cause it feels like we only ever got half an explanation for it. The spin off crew I have no problem with

I don't understand why people single out the Koopalings to hate on... there are characters who have been in way more games than them. Is it just because there's so many of them?

 

[fogbadge]

I don't understand why people single out the Koopalings to hate on... there are characters who have been in way more games than them. Is it just because there's so many of them?

i think weve had this conversation before, ive grown tired of them. at this point it feels like they include them when they cant be bothered making new bosses. i have a similar problem with pom pom and boom boom but thats more to do with the fact that their "boss fights" are so lame

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, overusing the same bosses gets boring. It's nice to change it up. I don't think their boss fights change that much lately. Even Zelda invents new ways to redo bosses, or forces an alternate method. Did you know Helmasaur King can be beaten with just the Bombs and Sword? Zelda Randomizer figured that out before ALBW did it!

But you get the idea. They've had new Manhandlas that require 4 characters, based upon color. Ganon himself has had tons of unique boss fights, Ganondorf too, and so on. They repeat some things(like giving everyone and their skeleton Dead Man's Volley), but tend to change it up. Mario... doesn't like to often change up any boss outside of Bowser and sometimes Bowser Jr.(due to his origins of him using the Paintbrush, they barely explored his normal self).

There's a ton of cool Mario baddies with tons of cool ways to use them. They took a Whomp and retooled it in Super Mario 64, even. That's awesome. You could ride a Koopa Shell instead of kick it. Nice! You get the idea. They tend to reinvent a few things, but the recurring bosses outside of barely 2 don't get a lot of unique new things. It could be due to Miyamoto wanting the games to play similarly and to barely characterize/change up nearly anyone. Having a recurring design/ability means you can easily buy a new game and beat it without getting too frustrated. It doesn't lack innovation, but it more user friendly in a way.

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah, overusing the same bosses gets boring. It's nice to change it up. I don't think their boss fights change that much lately. Even Zelda invents new ways to redo bosses, or forces an alternate method. Did you know Helmasaur King can be beaten with just the Bombs and Sword? Zelda Randomizer figured that out before ALBW did it!

really? thats cool. although i just like slamming it in the face with the hammer

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

really? thats cool. although i just like slamming it in the face with the hammer

Yeah. It was always there. It makes sense too. How do you crack a mask? Lots of power. Explosives and Physical Blows tend to take chunks out of armor.

It's possible it's a holdover from some beta ideas on how to beat it. This happens in lots of games anyway. I'm sure they outright had the idea beforehand. Randomizer didn't introduce boss shuffle till way later, so there's no way you could require the Bombs in it. So it's a coincidence that Randomizer had people do it first. I actually am wrong, then. It was doable(and notable), but not a requirement due to a lack of boss shuffle. You had to have the Hammer at the time.

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah. It was always there. It makes sense too. How do you crack a mask? Lots of power. Explosives and Physical Blows tend to take chunks out of armor.

It's possible it's a holdover from some beta ideas on how to beat it. This happens in lots of games anyway. I'm sure they outright had the idea beforehand. Randomizer didn't introduce boss shuffle till way later, so there's no way you could require the Bombs in it. So it's a coincidence that Randomizer had people do it first. I actually am wrong, then. It was doable(and notable), but not a requirement due to a lack of boss shuffle. You had to have the Hammer at the time.

well its no odder that playing dead man's volley with a bottle

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

well its no odder that playing dead man's volley with a bottle

That's more or less a confirmed joke option renewal. Since it's literally the Bug-Catching Net in practice(it helps that they cut out the middle man to make the item select screen a little less clunky). We don't know exactly if the Bomb thing was supposed to matter in ALTTP or if it's just a cool option they implemented for fun. That's what I mean. Joke attacks see play often, to help against a boss. Even the Fiishing Rod is used in TP that way. Just good ole' Easter Eggs.

To further clarify what I mean; was the Bomb bit an Easter Egg or an actual plan at one point? It's not an Easter Egg in ALBW, but a plan.

 

[fogbadge]

That's more or less a confirmed joke option renewal. Since it's literally the Bug-Catching Net in practice(it helps that they cut out the middle man to make the item select screen a little less clunky). We don't know exactly if the Bomb thing was supposed to matter in ALTTP or if it's just a cool option they implemented for fun. That's what I mean. Joke attacks see play often, to help against a boss. Even the Fiishing Rod is used in TP that way. Just good ole' Easter Eggs.

To further clarify what I mean; was the Bomb bit an Easter Egg or an actual plan at one point? It's not an Easter Egg in ALBW, but a plan.

We may never know. Though I’ll take a look I think