Toon Link Inquiry Thread (Ask a question, get an answer)

[TheJerm]

I'm not taking your word for it xD

But really, why Zair? Unless you somehow DI at an opportune moment to Zair and autocancel, he just needs to shield (which he will anyway because good D3s shieldgrab everything) and can then just dashgrab since Zair just lost its hitbox.

Jab interrupt and if D3 shieldgrabs, the jab hits them before D3 swings his arm toward you. You can even end after the 1st jab and run (it's the one with least lag).

Thanks VeitGeek.. atleast someone understands >_>

 

[Sosuke]

I'm not taking your word for it xD

XP

But really, why Zair? Unless you somehow DI at an opportune moment to Zair and autocancel, he just needs to shield (which he will anyway because good D3s shieldgrab everything) and can then just dashgrab since Zair just lost its hitbox.

Jab interrupt and if D3 shieldgrabs, the jab hits them before D3 swings his arm toward you. You can even end after the 1st jab and run (it's the one with least lag).

T_T

I need pictures. If I have to about this post again I'm getting pictures.

Zair because..
ok
DDD is shielding.
Your in his grab range after he messes up or whatever, right?
Well all of your attacks leave you within range of another grab. (even things like Nair-> quickdraw, because he can grab you with his "grab super armor" when he gets hit with the arrow. The point is to get away from him. So you want to use Zair as a spacing tool. With jab, he can grab you in the middle of your jab attack. He can perfect shield the hits in between even. If you cancel it at any point if he perfect shield, he can still grab you. Even after the first one. I'm pretty sure he can just wait until you hit him with any hit of jab and then just grab, with the super armor thing. Jab and run away is sort of like Zair, but DDD can get around it, and your still on the ground, letting him grab you again if he plays right or even "gets lucky" with a perfect shield or something.


I'm trying to say you Zair, go back a little during it (it after the peak of your jump, and about halfway down.), out of his grab range, then jump again i suppose and do whatever. The point of jumping is that by the time he catches up to you and wants to grab you with his running grab, you'll be in the air.

 

[TheJerm]

OK, this is how it goes. DDD grabs you, and starts the chain grab. You slide down the stage and he runs towards you. From here, DDD will do a follow up attack, and you dont even have a full second to do anything. So, getting in the air, is out of the question, so no zair. You can either spot dodge, shield, or do the AAA combo. If you get DDD with the first hit of the AAA combo, he will flinch, and you can continue or do whatever you want. Now, sometimes his super armor from the grab does happen, but in this case, he was gonna get you with the grab unless you chose the spot dodge option. So thats where the mind games come in. If DDD notices your spot dodges, he will probably do a dash attack since the trip has a delay to it. Or DDD will just extend his hammer (his forward B attack I think). If he does the the dash attack, your AAA combo will work. There's other mind game scenarios that could happen as well, and i dont feel like explaining them all. I'm just saying that zair, will not work in the middle of a chain grab. In the middle of Falco's chaingrab, maybe, but thats a different story.

Note: These scenarios only work IF the DDD's timing is off. Other than that, they will just chain grab you without you being able to get out.

 

[Shadow Moth]

I still think any decent DDD wouldn't let himself/herself make such a n00bish mistake >_____>
Also, wouldn't a practiced DDD... well... practice against a character like TL (tether grab=zair, short stature).

 

[TheJerm]

What are you talking about o_O? For one, not every DDD player gets the chaingrab perfect, 100% of the time. Thats like us landing our bow cancels 100% of the time.

 

[VietGeek]

Except D3 perfect CGs take more precision that arrow cancels.

Look, if a D3 doesn't mess up, it doesn't matter what you do. If he messes up, you might as well take the most guaranteed option (jabs) then cancel after the first one and run or go through with it.

Not even the best D3s can CG Marth consistently. And I believe he's the hardest to do as he's very floaty and Dolphin Slash is kinda like a giant whale of opposition smacking you in the face at speeds Sonic would envy.

 

[Shadow Moth]

What are you talking about o_O? For one, not every DDD player gets the chaingrab perfect, 100% of the time. That's like us landing our bow cancels 100% of the time.

Are you saying you can't? O_o

J/K. But even though you have a valid point, D3 has other moves to choose from especially against TL so the CGs can be spaced out more.

 

[TheJerm]

But DDD will go after the chaingrab any chance he gets. And I know Veitgeek, it was just the first comparison that came to mind.

 

[Barge]

Bump for Toon Link justice!

 

[K 2]

How do you jump cancel throw a bomb? I think I posted earlier asking if I could glidetoss bombs and the answer was to JC throw the bombs instead.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Just play a get away game against D3 instead of mid range ur best bet here is to run constantly and keep urself a hard target to grab. TL's projectiles>D3's waddle dees. As TL my problem isnt getting grabbed (well i am sometimes grabbed) but killing him. His spotdodge and shieldgrab are ridiculously good. that's when the tide of the battle changes in D3's favor most of the time since TL's kill moves are all highly punishable. So instead of complining about D3's perfect chain grab try to find a way fellow TL mainers to actually kill with TL. Btw where is santi? Havent seen him post in a while.

 

[TLMSheikant]

K2 to JC throw u have to press jump hold for like a second then press Z and the other direction in the control stick at the same time. U can also use the cstick instead of z but i find it easier when i use z.

 

[K 2]

K2 to JC throw u have to press jump hold for like a second then press Z and the other direction in the control stick at the same time. U can also use the cstick instead of z but i find it easier when i use z.

So you jump first and while you are in the air, you throw?

 

[TLMSheikant]

No brawl doesnt read the jump immediately u will still be on the ground and do like a wavedash and throw the bomb while moving in the desired direction. Hope that helps! ^_^

 

[Shadow Moth]

jump then immediately press throw ASAP.

 

[K 2]

oh ok. You said hold jump for a second so I thought you would jump first. I think I got it now. Thanks!

 

[Jellyfishn]

I somehow have a hard time against Lucario. I don't know if my projectile spam sucks or something, but his Aura spheres are pretty fast and annoying. I am really inexperienced with this matchup. The only thing I can come up with is ban FD and use zair more.... oh yeah and Dtilt.....


*sarcasm*

 

[TheJerm]

The main thing with Lucario is to just watch out for his hitboxes. there broken xD Just space your attacks and you should be fine. And hold block for a little bit longer than you usually would.

 

[Sosuke]

I somehow have a hard time against Lucario. I don't know if my projectile spam sucks or something, but his Aura spheres are pretty fast and annoying. I am really inexperienced with this matchup. The only thing I can come up with is ban FD and use zair more.... oh yeah and Dtilt.....


*sarcasm*

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=182155
5th one.

 

[Barge]

Bump for newbs.

 

[Sosuke]

bum p

 

[Alus]

^^^

lol you forgot the +1 post count

 

[Rutger]

Sasuke does not care about post count. >_>

 

[Dokutayuu]

Here's a question, what should I do against a Kirby? I find myself victim to his f-smash quite frequently.

Should I take the battle to the air? I can just air dodge his Down B but any other things to watch out for?

 

[Mota]

HEYZ im confused!

TL's Arrow cancel thingymajig, is it called Quickdraw (Which is what Ike's attack is called) or just ArrowCancel (AC)

I never know what to call it, but i usually use Quickdraw which soundz incorrect...

SO officially what is TL\'s Fast Arrow pullout whatnot when you press B near landing.
What its calleddddd!

 

[TheJerm]

Both

10 quickdraws

 

[JTB]

Does anyone have a video I can watch to see the exact usefulness of z-air?

 

[Barge]

Does anyone have a video I can watch to see the exact usefulness of z-air?

Its not that complicated
read some of the threads and mess around with it a bit

My favorite is zair -> nair

But theres also others, zair -> bomb -> hyphen smash
zair -> dtilt
etc

 

[TheJerm]

Does anyone have a video I can watch to see the exact usefulness of z-air?

Just watch some of santi's later vids on youtube. I'm also gonna try and get some vids up next week, and I use zair often.

 

[kataklysm336]

What moves do you guys use to kill? B-air is always to weak after I use it for combos, and 99% of my other moves get powershielded and then I get ***** due to the lag of finishing my move. So which is the quickest killing move?

 

[TheJerm]

Up Smash is great. You should save that attack, annd forward smash is pretty good. Actually all the smash's, but up smash works the best. Also Uair. Fair works depending on where you get them too.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Upsmash is best. UpAir is also good. Fair if u mindgame him. Forward smash is just bad it may have th emost knockback of all of TL's moves but the 2nd hit can be escaped from if ur opponent know what hes doin'. And always remember in castle siege and smashville downsmash is a OHKO move if used at 0-30 ish percents if ur close to the blast line. ^_^

 

[TheJerm]

No, If you know what your doing, they cant get out of it. I think kirby might be able to though, but I've found a way to get kirby in it, I just need to practice it on other kirby's than my friends.

 

[Kasai]

Quick question, what conditions does upB sweet spot vs not sweet spotting?

I haven't been able to make a very clear reason. I'm almost sure I've grabbed/missed both facing towards and away. It might be some Control Stick input but not 100% sure.

But yeah, why does upB sometimes not sweet spot the edge?

 

[ImpactAR]

"Quickdraw" is the name for Ike's Forward B. It was originally considered as one of the names for Link and TL's arrow trick, but as you can see there can be some confusion. "Arrow Cancel" is the official name for the arrow lag reduction. Shooting two arrows in a short hop having the second one Arrow Cancel is known as Short Hop Double Arrow abbreviated as SHDA, where the second arrow is understood to be an Arrow Cancel.

TL's most reliable KO move is his Up Smash. Then the Nair.

The Spin Attack does not auto-grab the edge near the beginning of a move so you have to be sure that you're not too "high" otherwise you're would actually be in the beginning part of your Spin Attack and not auto-grab. I'm going to estimate you have to be one and a half hook shot chain length for the auto-grab hit box to kick in. Also holding down while you're in any Up B will cancel the auto-grab property of the move

TL auto-grab box extends more in front of him so if you're facing away you may not auto-grab because it is not registering the auto-grab hit box as close enough to the ledge.

 

[vbdood1337]

TL's most reliable KO move is his Up Smash. Then the Nair.

Nair doesn't kill Mario until ~ 175% fresh from the center of FD with no DI. I wouldn't recommend it as a kill move.

I'm guessing you meant to say Fair?

 

[TLMSheikant]

Nair is very weak and it is way too good as to not spam it the whole match. ^.^

 

[Cloud Cleaver]

Nair's useful only for gimping or if the blast line happens to be right in your face.

 

[ImpactAR]

No, I do mean Nair. You're right Nair kills Mario at 175% on the grounded center of FD no DI. You have to consider their other scenarios. How close they are to the side, what stage they are on, how are they DIing.

The best way to DI against a Nair is probably up and/or toward it. But that's the worst way to DI against an Up Smash. Flip it and you got opposite DI scenarios. I just think "time to punish" and if the Up Smash or Nair kills than good. I don't really expect to KO with the Nair. It just happens. Other than that I don't consider them KOed until their stock goes down.

Fair hits harder I agree with that, but it comes out slower. It's more of a lone attack so it's hard to set up and it's speed isn't great for punishment. That's why I KO the most with Up Smash followed by the Nair.

Here's something data to think about:

Up Smash hits on the 11th frame. Hyphen smash it and you added an extra 1 or 2 frames making it hit on the 12th or 13th frame. Nair hits on the 6th frame and with the quick jump and execution add 1 or 2 more frames to make the hit on the 7th-8th frame. Fair hits on the 14th frame and with the quick jump and execution add 1 or 2 more frames to make the hit on the 15th-16th frame.

Don't get me wrong Fair is one of TL's good KO moves. Definitely should look for the chance to use it.

 

[Jman115]

I tend to use Up-Smash as my primary KO move. My friends HATE that move with a passion. I've never really used Nair much, but am using it more and more recently. It is a sweet move. It is moving up to second for my most common KO move. It works well off stage. Oddly enough Fsmash tends to be my second most common kill move. I haven't really paid attention to it, but i seem to hit with it quite often.

Fair doesn't really come into much handy for me. Occasionally a situation comes up where it can be pulled off, but most situations where a Fair MIGHT have a chance i just use nair or bair.