Toon Link Match Up Discussion: Zero Suit Samus!

[MJG]

Match Up Discussion: ZSS!

 

[Thebest1pj]

haven't we discussed this like twenty times already?

 

[WindMajor]

We did, but apparently none of the TLs REALLY know how to play the MU properly. The only person that does is probably S@nT after playing Kewkky so much, and he thinks it's 60:40 TL, while everyone else would agree that it's even or in ZSS' favor. I'm probably gonna play Kewkky on the 20th, so I'll see if I can get more input on the MU by then.

Anyways, it's like I said in the previous discussion. Go aggro. Nair/Bair OoS. If you try to hardcore camp ZSS, it'll be incredibly difficult, and she'll end up being able to catch you off guard with a side B. It's dumb, so just go aggro, and use your shield a lot.

 

[MJG]

Yea. This is my least favorite MU atm...I played FK in tourney and was just doing stuff in order to win and I played Dakpo and friendlies and lost a majority of them lol. I also played Paw at MLG Dallas round two and I thought I was going to lose early on.

Anyways, this is what Shlike sent me awhile ago.

Hey man I don't think I've had the pleasure of meeting you/playing you but I've seen vids of your Tl and it's really good stuff.

To be honest I've played jerm only a handful of times and I can't really say I'm an expert at the matchup, but I'll tell you what I know.

In my opinion I have an easy time dealing with Toon Links campiness, zss is faster than him both in the ground and in the air, and powershielding bombs or boomerangs isn't really that hard. Zss wins in the air (toon link does not want to be above zss ever because uair wrecks tl) Tl's best moves in this match up (in my opinion) are bair and nair. Bair zones out zss and nair is pretty good spacing tool/occasional mix up when switching from camping to aggro. Nair isn't safe on shield (she can uair out of shield which is never good for tl), I don't really know about bair though because it has significantly less end lag.

Zss jab completes on tl unless he sdi's down. Do not whiff grabs because it's a free dsmash combo aka 30+% and or death. Don't be afraid to actually approach zss and get in her. In my opinion zss does better when she has to get through camp (because of how fast she is and a couple of her zoning tools), however if she is massively pressured (because of her lack of grab) she could have a lot of trouble dealing with it. You're probaby best off switching between the two playstyles and seeing which one works better for you against the specific player.

Do not fish for kills ever. Don't try to kill with an obvious usmash. You're best kill moves in this mu are bair,nair,utilt, and fair. I wish I had videos to show you : /

Sorry I took so long to answer; Think of this as a Christmas present

Merry Christmas!!!

 

[TheJerm]

Omg I hate zss. Ima mm riddle of nicks at pound to learn more. You guys should teach me this shiz.

 

[MaskedAvnger]

I don't have a lot of ZSS experience, I have a guy I play with every once in a while, and I played against YbM's once or twice.

Like Ensis put in that post above, being above ZSS is never good, and don't be predictable with your ledge game, or you're gonna get screwed by dsmash.

I just have a question about the armor pieces. Should you try to play with them until they're gone, I know they rack up a lot of damage when you're using them, but ZSS players probably know just as many, if not more shenanigans, or should you just get rid of them once you get a chance to throw them off the side?

 

[WindMajor]

It depends if you can gain momentum with them. You should try to just take control of all of them before anything. Don't start going aggro with them if she has more armor pieces around her, just like shield them or dodge them until she has no more, and see where you can go from there. If you want to keep them around, throw them up or down and let them bounce for a while until you can grab onto them later, or you can just throw them at her if she's open. If you don't have the momentum, just throw them away. They'll be a hassle.

Oh and watch out for her glidetoss. It's ridiculous.

 

[Dakpo]

I used to really struggle with this match up, but then i quit wifi. I played MJG at oh snap and did a lot better then i thought i would. I came into the match having the mindset that everyone who loses to a wifi tink thinks..."if this was offline, i would Power shield all of this freakin spam." and i preceded to do so. I honestly think it is super easy to corner TL with our speed and shielding. I see your grab as "almost" as bad as ours, so i really dont mind hiding in shield. But one thing i do really hate in this match up is that freakin zair. It forces us into shield or to crouch, which slows us down a lot. We honestly share the same weakness (PS). Just try to beat us with bair and nair. Do not get above us. And watch out for 2008 although zair should stop any 2008 attempts.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

The problem with TL is that a lot of his complicated projectile trap webs can just be dashed through with a single PS because ZSS is so fast, and then he doesn't have anything faster than our dtilt in melee range. It's hard for ZSS to approach TL with a bomb in his hand. His zair is super annoying, and I usually try my best to PS it, but it's hard IMO. Probably TL's best tool.

Bair chains on ZSS at low percents are stupid effective and really annoying.

I think the most obvious weakness TL has here is that when he short hops, he's at the perfect height to be hit with ZSS' very fast dash attack which makes the move work against a ton of TL's camping attempts.

This is probaby (definitely) at least +1 ZSS.