Eggm
Smash Hero
After last weekends tournament in philly a lot of people including myself were upset at m2k's playstyle as it was extremely campy and involved abusing the ledge and how it gives an overwhelming advantage to a character who is good at gimping that refuses to leave it and around it with the life lead. M2k didn't abuse it to the point he could have however you can see easily by watching the videos how it could easily be done to the point where its completely imbalanced. Now you might say well get the life lead and then do it yourself first, but is that really how we would like to see the metagame develop? M2k has already inspired me to play that way its not going to be long before this trend picks up in popularity or if it doesn't it at least has the potential to. The melee community is while doing ok not exactly thriving or big enough to warrant not making any changes to this problem as the metagame advances and more and more people play like this its not fun or entertaining and will only hurt the community or stunt its potential growth, which I hope none of us want. Now none of us imo can blame m2k for doing this because under the current ruleset and with the character he chooses (sheik) there is LITERALLY no reason not to do this endlessly if you want to win once you have the life lead if you are playing to win. In fact we should applaud him for exploiting this and showing us that there is an inherent flaw in melee's design as a platform for a competitive fighting game. That flaw being this game has no incentive to approach once you have the life lead aka it is always advantageous to run. That being said i'd like to have a discussion about how to fix this problem or to discuss if this is even a problem at all.
Here are the example vids i'm talking about from last weekend and you can read the comments to see that i'm not the only one who feels this way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib3v1kLmbcY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yEQAQCDS6o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNLTNG2lGU8
I'll get started on how I feel and my thoughts :
Let's compare this game to super street fighter 4 (i'm using this cause its the only other fighter i have experience with) theres almost no way to argue that it is better fighter than melee at least in terms of a platform for balanced competitive fighting game. One of the reasons for this is running away while effective eventually puts you in a bad position (the corner) so you have to be careful to balance offense/defense. In melee that need to be careful and balance that does not exist past who gets the first hit as once you have the life lead with the current rules there is NO REASON not to run/camp/abuse ledge invc etc.. So I think that something does need to be changed in either the game or the rule set to fix this flaw or eventually the game will become really boring and attract less players to start playing as the metagame progresses.
Anyway in conclusion I made this thread to hopefully have a serious discussion on how to fix this problem, because I can't really think of one outside of changing the game which is kinda unreasonable cause we'd first have to think of a way, then find a way to hack and mass distribute that hacked version and play it in tournaments. So i'm hoping that through discussion some one can find using the rule set that everyone agrees on which would solve this problem. Alternatively I hope that some one can argue that it doesn't need to be changed during the discussion that makes me change my mind that this flaw doesn't need a rule and is fine the way it is, but i'm doubtful. Either way I think this thread is warranted and look forward to your replies.
Current accepted melee rule set : http://cloti-aikou.net/apex/melee.html
The only thing against camping in there is Stalling a match is not allowed (such as wall-jumping under Battlefield), but recovery tactics such as Peach's Wall-Bombing, and Jigglypuff's Rising Pound are allowed.
However this isn't specific or easily enforceable enough to be an acceptable rule to meet the solution to the problem of camping in melee IMO. If this isn't the current general accepted rule set atm please direct me to them and show me where it shows a good answer for this problem and we can discuss that.
*disclaimer I love melee over any other fighting game the most but even so cannot ignore this flaw and am only making this thread for what i feel is the good of the community's future. I'm not also saying since I think this needs to be changed it NEEDS to be changed right away(or at all) or anything like that but I think theres a definite need for at least a discussion to see the community's thoughts on the subject.
Here are the example vids i'm talking about from last weekend and you can read the comments to see that i'm not the only one who feels this way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib3v1kLmbcY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yEQAQCDS6o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNLTNG2lGU8
I'll get started on how I feel and my thoughts :
Let's compare this game to super street fighter 4 (i'm using this cause its the only other fighter i have experience with) theres almost no way to argue that it is better fighter than melee at least in terms of a platform for balanced competitive fighting game. One of the reasons for this is running away while effective eventually puts you in a bad position (the corner) so you have to be careful to balance offense/defense. In melee that need to be careful and balance that does not exist past who gets the first hit as once you have the life lead with the current rules there is NO REASON not to run/camp/abuse ledge invc etc.. So I think that something does need to be changed in either the game or the rule set to fix this flaw or eventually the game will become really boring and attract less players to start playing as the metagame progresses.
Anyway in conclusion I made this thread to hopefully have a serious discussion on how to fix this problem, because I can't really think of one outside of changing the game which is kinda unreasonable cause we'd first have to think of a way, then find a way to hack and mass distribute that hacked version and play it in tournaments. So i'm hoping that through discussion some one can find using the rule set that everyone agrees on which would solve this problem. Alternatively I hope that some one can argue that it doesn't need to be changed during the discussion that makes me change my mind that this flaw doesn't need a rule and is fine the way it is, but i'm doubtful. Either way I think this thread is warranted and look forward to your replies.
Current accepted melee rule set : http://cloti-aikou.net/apex/melee.html
The only thing against camping in there is Stalling a match is not allowed (such as wall-jumping under Battlefield), but recovery tactics such as Peach's Wall-Bombing, and Jigglypuff's Rising Pound are allowed.
However this isn't specific or easily enforceable enough to be an acceptable rule to meet the solution to the problem of camping in melee IMO. If this isn't the current general accepted rule set atm please direct me to them and show me where it shows a good answer for this problem and we can discuss that.
*disclaimer I love melee over any other fighting game the most but even so cannot ignore this flaw and am only making this thread for what i feel is the good of the community's future. I'm not also saying since I think this needs to be changed it NEEDS to be changed right away(or at all) or anything like that but I think theres a definite need for at least a discussion to see the community's thoughts on the subject.