Tournies No Longer Go Here (Small discussion on new TL, read first post!)

[CT Chia]

Post all new tournaments in Tournament Listings. Check the announcements about the new tournament system for information.

Use this forum for smashfests, state and power rankings threads, and more serious threads like car rides, perhaps rule discussions, etc.

Exarch Edit:
It is true that we are not entirely sure what to fill the RZ's with. That basics we have planned are Smashfests, State Threads, and PR threads. Other more serious threads will go in this forum too.

The point of this change was to make all Tournaments move to one place. I personally think, (and have a few others who agree with me) that this is a huge improvement.

Bear with us as we figure out how we will use our Regional Zones (Atlantic South Room) now that they are free to be filled with things other than tournaments.

If you are curious as to why this happened and intend on posting in this thread/participating in the discussion, read the following collapse bracket.
If you're not curious, don't read it, but there are plenty of reasons behind it, I can assure you:
[collapse=significant wall of text be afraid!]

• 
  Why having two threads for one tournament is bad:
• Having two threads open means the TO has much more to check, and requires many many extra clicks (to get to different forums, open both threads to the first page with potential updates, copy pastaing new edits, reading new pages of both threads, and many more.)
• Both threads would have to compete in both forums for attention. One thread could easily fall off the first page of one forum. If it's on the second page of the RZ, locals don't see it. On the second page of TL and it's not considered big or national. Either one of these happening severely hurts attendance/hype.
• If two threads are made and one dies out (as would frequently happen,) the same problems are experienced as listed in the last bullet.
• It also increases the number of threads on smashboards (this is a minor point but still holds a small amount of weight.) There becomes duplicate threads, one of which is useless.

So really, any tournament should only be in one place. Historically it hadn't been done that way, but that doesn't mean it isn't done poorly, (I mean historically humanity has traveled on foot rather than by car, but don't you think flying is better?) Yes things worked--more or less--before the change. But we can improve them anyway. The change improves all of the problems I just mentioned. That allows me to my first point: All tournaments should only have one thread. I certainly hope we can all agree that having one thread in one room is better than having multiple threads for one tournament in multiple rooms.

If you think that having 2 or more threads for one tournament is better than having 1, please let me know and explain why. The only potential argument I can see for it is that having only 1 thread means that less people will see it, but when everyone must go to one place to view any tournament, this argument is invalidated. Now that Atlantic South lurkers and Tournament national-ers must go to the same place to see upcoming tournaments, the same amount of people would see the one thread now, compared to the amount of people if there were two threads a week ago.

So then, why have we put all tournament threads in one room?
All tournaments in one location means that upon entering TLings to view your regions tournaments, you must see at least one tournament from another region. These would be the stickied tournaments, and so more people actually see RoM3's thread. Why this is better than before:

• Under the old system, very few (and shrinking) people went into TLings, so this change decreases the potential for someone to have no idea that the next Pound has already been scheduled. It makes national tournaments more public.
• It is also better because if all tournaments were located only in their regional zones (I have already discussed why having them in both locations is not optimal,) this means you would have to potentially search up to ~7 more forums to check for national tournaments. When looking through those forums you may even have to pass over a few PRing threads, which increases your scanning workload even more. If you are attending a national tournament, it means that you do not have to load a different forum to check the thread. (Even if you don't go there often.)
• It discourages regional separatism. Let's face it: as a community, we aren't exactly the poster-child of competitive gaming. If we want to continue to play our favorite games, and attend tournaments, we need to be as unified as possible. The more separation that happens, the more individual pockets die out, and the more 64/Melee/Brawl fades. Think about the smashers who don't play anymore. Most of them didn't announce "I'm retiring," but just kind of stopped coming to tournaments... slowly. We need to be connected as much as possible. Putting tournaments in one room allows easy contrast to the activity of other areas, and can encourage people to get their stuff together. (This is slightly a minor point, but I think it has a significant affect. You're allowed to go lolstupid to this one though.)
• Having them in one room helps people who may live on or close to the edge of a region. Shouldn't have to explain why. Obviously Florida doesn't run into this problem/benefit.
• In one room means we can link one calendar. From what I know, we cannot link multiple rooms to one calendar. Having them in TL means you can easily see national tournaments happening on the same weekend as local tournaments. This helps Tournament Organizers specifically, but also assists attendees, by potentially sparking their interest in that out of region tournament.
  So for at least all of those reasons, (there are probably others I'm missing,) I can make my second assertion: All tournaments belong in one location. At least, for those reasons, having them in one location is better than having them in many.
  
  One tournament, one thread, one room for all tourneys.[/collapse]

 

[BBQ°]

why??????????

 

[Anomic_Punk]

Thats going to be so cluttered.
I disapprove.

 

[0Room]

Thats going to be so cluttered.
I disapprove.

QFT

Regional Zones are now useless.

 

[mr.fizwidget]

what was wrong before?

 

[Purple]

The reason is because the tournament calendar really is nothing more than a blank calendar that only a few use. This new development allows you to post a topic AND post in the calendar an event at the same time; so that the few people who use the calendar have the convenience of not having to search through all the regional zones anymore.

By everyone posting in tournament listings, it allows you to easily be able to check what tournaments are happening when, and how to designate a date accordingly.

I for one approve of this as it allows bigger tournaments to get hosted in good times with others; allowing for more big events to be accessible for all smashers . On top of that it doesn't make the tournament in a sense, excluded from other regions.

I don't feel it'll be cluttered if you guys correctly label these things. Note how he said the regional zones can be used for rule discussion; use this as a 'loophole'

For example Fullmetal, post TO7 (whenever it happens) on the tournament listings, however have a tournament discussion thread here in ATL South; there's nothing wrong with doing that, and by doing both things (while I will admit it's more work) allows people to quickly see when your tournament's coming and when other tournaments are happening around it.


TL;DR - This new systems allows everyone as a whole to be able to see when tournaments are happening without browsing each regional zone. Tournament discussion is still allowed here, however posting the actual tournament information should be in tournament listings.

 

[Isatis]

You also have the option of sorting for Atlantic South tournies only by a single link on top of TL.

 

[Purple]

So really.

1) It's not cluttered

2) It helps EVERYONE out, instead of just being here for ATL South

3) It looks really cool

So yah, just do it, it makes things easier and look organized :D

 

[BBQ°]

I'll have to get used to it, but I guess it's okay because of that lulzy loop hole.

 

[Anomic_Punk]

I still miss my TO Blue. Now I am but the same as the rest of these schmucks. =(

 

[BBQ°]

why aren't you a TO anymore? lol

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

They got rid of TO Blue.
andddd this is really ****ty imo

 

[Gerbil]

*Felt as if the old system was fine*

Oh well, at least we can see the hard work you guys put into it; maybe I'll learn to love it

*also misses his TO Blue*

 

[Purple]

*shrug*. Just get used to the change.

 

[exarch]

This is actually a huge improvement.

By going to TL and clicking on the A.S. link, you effectively have what this room was yesterday, without the added clutter of state (ranking) threads. It's a place to go to see just tournaments.

We've got a place now exclusively for State threads and Rankings and other semi serious discussion, like smashfests.

Out social room functions as it ever has, although maybe posts some posts will get moved into this room.

[collapse=More information]
Admittedly the Atlantic South does not benefit as much from this as other Regions have.

The Midwest has been crippled when it comes to making social threads. It's such a large region, that between the tournaments and the state threads, they've got well more than enough to fill up both their social room and their regional room. This frees up so much more room for them regarding threads; it's a HUGE benefit to the MW. There is literally no place for a smashfest thread; many of the states don't even have a state thread due to the clutter.

The A.N.'s social room has looked pretty silly too, without much room for general social threads. Their main room is filled with tourneys and rankings, and their social room filled with crew threads. Removing the tourneys from their main room allows the crew threads to get moved in with the rankings threads (really to which they are much more closely related.) Now they can have a place for just social threads too.

The other regions I won't speak on, outside of ours.

While it's true that we don't fill the gap as easily as the two above mentioned regions, I hope everyone understand that this is not hurting our region at all. We only stand to benefit from it. Although in my considerations for this move, I have not been entirely sure what we will fill our main room up with, I'm sure we'll figure it out as we become accustommed to it.
[/collapse]

I miss my TO icon too, but really that group didn't represent much of anything. (You hosted a smashfest once, 3 years ago and put it on the calendar.) I don't know much about this myself, but I would be very surprised if the TO blue were gone forever. It'll probably be replaced with a slightly more exclusive group.

 

[0Room]

I did look at it, and I like the different settings of where the tournaments are hosting, but I do think that each different region needs a different color to help distinguish between them.

I don't know if you think that would again be "excluding other regions", but I personally think it would be a HUGE improvement in visual sorting.

 

[Purple]

Yeah, I agree with Exarch here, honestly I'm surprised well known players like Fullmetal haven't moved up to the MBR for hosting such ballin tourneys :s

But what do i know.

 

[Anomic_Punk]

Yeah, I agree with Exarch here, honestly I'm surprised well known players like Fullmetal haven't moved up to the MBR for hosting such ballin tourneys :s

But what do i know.

People don't like me, I guess? lol

 

[Toneh]

Its gonna be weird at 1st bc we've been doin this for years but it looks like it'll be good in the long run

 

[KillerSOS]

Can't say I like it... now I have to have two forums open if I want to see all the threads and I have an extra filter to click to get ATL S

 

[BBQ°]

People don't like me, I guess? lol

I think it's because of your name. "Who the **** is Anomic Punk? Oh well"

You should get it changed to FullMetal.

 

[Purple]

I think it's because of your name. "Who the **** is Anomic Punk? Oh well"

You should get it changed to FullMetal.

I like this idea.

 

[Anomic_Punk]

I think it's because of your name. "Who the **** is Anomic Punk? Oh well"

You should get it changed to FullMetal.

Doesn't that cost money? No dice, if so. =O

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

$4 dollars for 3 months.

 

[Purple]

I'll gift you some for premium Mike; got a paypal?

 

[ZIO]

And so, now, what use is the standard room here? What distinguishes it from the social room?

 

[Purple]

Smashfests, bi-weeklies or monthlies, power rankings (serious ones, not your nc trash ones), and state conversation threads go here... Wait... Should we move all state socials here? O.o

 

[ZIO]

Sounds like everything the social room does already.

And I DON'T MAKE THOSE TRASH PR TOPICS! If I make one, it's a quality topic. It's why you never see me make topics of any kind. I only do it if it's REALLY worth it.

 

[Linguini]

Sounds absolutely terrible. In theory, the system works, simply because you place too much faith that your average "noob" smasher will search out threads and understand the concept of it "linking out" to another "listing" thread. In addition to dwindling possible attendance due to this confusion, this new setup divides discussion, and therefore reduces hype and anticipation.

This might sound far fetched, but these two dilemmas have been plagued tournament hosts the past 4 years of my tournament hosting. I witnessed this it happen recently in the division of the Tipped Off 6 thread in the ATL south and in tournament listings. Although that large regional tournament turned out amazing, imagine how much of a problem this could pose for a local event.

The calendar is a great idea, but once again, it complicates more than it facilitates.

 

[Toneh]

This might sound far fetched, but these two dilemmas have been plagued tournament hosts the past 4 years of my tournament hosting. I witnessed this it happen recently in the division of the Tipped Off 6 thread in the ATL south and in tournament listings. Although that large regional tournament turned out amazing, imagine how much of a problem this could pose for a local event.

yeah thats what they are trying to fix. Before tournaments were sometimes placed in "tournament listings" and sometimes threads are in "atlantic south".

Now its always going to be in tournament listings so everyone always goes to the same area.
Plus it helps new smashers find tournaments easier since all they gotta do is check "tournament listings"

With the calender, its gonna help TO's schedule events better so theres no conflicting dates, another problem we ran into sometimes.

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

I like the old way better imo.

 

[AfroQT]

Im not going to sit here and argue about whether or not this isbetter for the majority or w/e the ****, what i will say is that this update definitely isn't making anything more "organized" for me. Everything i needed to post on was in 1 area, now, its not. Definitely not more organized, infact the complete opposite.

 

[Finch]

This is way way better. Don't listen to these shortsighted people.

 

[exarch]

@ 0Room,

Spoiler

I agree with you, the colors are slightly problematic currently. But no system will be flawless the moment it is put in use. I'll mention the colors to others. Also the US is universally colored blue atm, but International regions are Red. So in a way there already is a color scheme going on. But I agree it could use improvements.

The other immediate problem I see with it is the many different skins the boards has, so in order for the colors to work, they must function well with all the possible skin combinations, and not make your eyes want to cry.

@ Killer,

Spoiler

Well the first part isn't necessarily true, because under the old system if you wanted to be sure you caught all tournaments for just one region, you would have had to have two forums open as well. But I understand the sentiment.

As for the extra filter we've discussed ways to eliminate the need for clicking it, so this problem may go away over the next month.

@ Zio,

Spoiler

Yes the Social Room does that stuff already. But doesn't that sound like something that's less social than most of the threads we have in their? (NC Dance PR, YLYL, Recommend other games, etc.) The point is Tournament Listings was not being used for tournaments. Although there is not a perfect answer to what RZs will be used for (outside of those mentioned threads, I'm not 100% sure it will be very active or filled.) I'm sure we will find good use for them as time passes.

As I've said before, just because we've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not stupid, or can't be improved.

The point is that more serious threads belong here now, and more silly threads go to the social room.

@ Afro,

Spoiler

No necessarily true. Sometimes you would have a tournament in a RZ, but would be attending a national tournament and would have to load either TL -or- a different regional zone.

Sometimes depending on the tournament, you would have to load TL to check the thread, then load your RZ separately to check other upcoming tournaments in your area.

Overall I understand frustrations with it.
Know that the developers have just laid out the basics of the system. There has been a bunch of work that went into this already, but we (devs and mods) are by no means totally finished with it. From this point, we will be making small tweaks as we continue, hopefully continuing to improve what we've started.

 

[Purple]

Afro when should things be just about you? and when is having things in two seperate areas less organized? Id consider it more so.

 

[BBQ°]

well, it was nice to have the tournament threads in the atlantic south, because that's the only place I ever go, so it was more organized for people like me. I don't think this will be much of a problem though because TO's will post the tournament links in the atlantic south if they want to advertise it well.

 

[AfroQT]

Afro when should things be just about you? and when is having things in two seperate areas less organized? Id consider it more so.

When did i say things SHOULD be about me? I simply said how it is affecting me if you misunderstood that feel free to reread my post.

I think you missed my point, every single thread i needed to post on was in 2 boards. Now, its in 3 boards, and one has been made useless. Im sure there are many people like myself who really only checked their regional board and their regional social board. Now i have to check the regional board, social board, and "Tournament Listings Atlantic South Board". Please explain how this is more organized.

@Exarch
The onlytime i had to do that is when i was going to a National Tournament (and even though i go to National Tournaments, i don't even check the thread more then once or twice for info regarding the tournament). Now i have to also do that for local tournaments...

Im not tryin to down the new system im just not feelings this at all, and like i said, not like it made things easier on me.

But w/e, its not like its now "hard" to browse smashboards...

 

[Xaltis]

Man I had everything SO ORGANIZED! Now this change has made everything unorganized for me.

How could you say this new change is better? And I don't see anywhere in Afro's post where he say's " ALL THIS SHOULD ONLY BE ABOUT MEEE!!"

 

[exarch]

@ BBQ[collapse=Pretty short and probably important for most people to read]
Hopefully that won't be necessary, as everyone must check tournament listings to see tournaments. Although threads like the The Florida Thread have become more important as a way to check upcoming tourneys in a specific state.[/collapse]

@ Afro

Spoiler

True, but only recently. I know for the couple of tournaments I held, I created threads in both TL and the A.S. This was really bad because one thread would inevitably become the center for activity. If it was the TL thread, then I would miss out on locals who only check the RZs, if it was the RZs, it severely killed out of region interest. I also tended to prefer the TL thread, which meant that during the time I hosted tourneys, individuals attending them had to load that other forum.

RZs slowly evolved into holding all the tournaments over time. When they were new forums it was difficult to know where to go. (That's more of a History lesson than any point, how they changed isn't really important.)

Some others who attend national tournaments post in the tournament thread pretty frequently. This reduces their need to continue to load that other forum.

Also it's "more organized" because the rooms are better divided. I'm pretty sure that means improved organization.

Overall you are absolutely right that it's a give and take. I personally think we GAIN a lot more than we lose having all tournaments in one place and a linked calendar. Not everyone agrees right now, but we're not finished with all the neat stuff we're gonna do.

@ Xaltis, I'm not sure if you're looking for a response or if you're just lamenting the change.

Also anyone can respond to questions, I can't afford to do this all day.

 

[AfroQT]

I am arguing that the rooms are not better divided. Especially when i have a now useless board.
Everything thats currently in this forum is either a tournament (and im guessing thats because some people haven't moved over their tournaments ???, not sure why i now have tournaments for the same region in 2 different locations lol) or a PR thread, i guess PR threads could stay here but then your having an entire board pretty much for 3 or 4 threads only. PR threads could even be moved to the social board though that might not be the best idea.

You know what, it seems to me that the problem was the TL board wasn't being used enough, why didn't they just remove it, or change the name to imply that National Tournaments would/should be posted in that forum as well as the regional forum.