Shawn101589
Smash Journeyman
I'm creating this thread to express what I believe has caused a complete and utter split between the Fighting Game Community and the Smash Community. I believe that there is blame on both ends, but I don't think it is anything that can't be repaired.
A game with depth is a game with depth. That is what Smash is; whether it is technically a fighting game or not (as determined by who? Not sure. Doesn't really matter) is irrelevant. It functions similarly to a fighting game minus some major elements (health bar, meter, etc) but has some unique elements (platforms, much more freedom of movement, direction influence, etc.)
The complex ruleset is there for the exact reason that everyone knows already: In vanilla settings, the game (assume i'm talking about Melee from now on unless I state otherwise, I don't play Brawl) is not fit for competitive play. That is because it was not designed to be that way. One thing that everyone has to realize is that regardless of a games intended design, there can be unexpected results. Melee's depth exists whether intentional or not, and there is nothing wrong with people taking their enjoyment of the game to another level and attempting to establish it as a real fighting game. Anyone who is annoyed or upset by this needs to get over it. If it weren't an enjoyable experience then the Smash community would be dead by now, and it isn't. We should be proud of what we've accomplished, proud of how fare we've come as a community, proud of how far we've pushed our game, and we should rejoice in the fact that there is still a lot more that can be accomplished.
Now, a few things I need to get across to a certain vocal minority of Smash players here. Melee is definitely an amazing game. And being elitists, only playing Melee and no other fighting games, believing without a doubt that this game is the pinnacle of fighting games is harmless, on it's own. But when you start spewing it on other fighting game forums, cross fighting game tournaments that happen to feature smash, or anywhere else you want to, it makes us look bad. And the truth is, nobody cares. Do I personally believe that Melee has a huge amount of depth? Yes. But that does not mean that I have to shove this view down other peoples throats. You are being a Jehovah's witness. A stereotype strikingly similar to that of a Melee player begging for acceptance on SRK. Stop it. You make us all look bad.
People will always see the Smash Community as a group of people who are trying to make Smash into something it is not. This is something that will always be true within the Smash Community, and we can't change that. What we can change is our attitudes. I've been to a ton of tournaments, and I know for a fact that our community is not as bad as the stereotypes I hear about it. I get plenty of advice, never had any issues, always have a really amazing time.
This is not what the average Fighting Game Community member sees, however. Because for some reason, instead of using the opportunity of a cross game tournament to reach out to the community, it instead results in arguments, fighting for space / setups, trash talk, etc. This is unbecoming of a misfit community attempting to gain acceptance from a larger community, and leads to unnecessary word of mouth garbage shunning away plenty of potential players.
I'd like to see the stats on how many people from the Smash Community have been even remotely prominent at other fighters. And I'm willing to wager that the number is quite low. Now, don't misunderstand what I'm saying here. I'm not attempting to say that Smashers are bad at Fighting Games, or that the Fighting Game Community is bad at Smash. Because while both of these statements are probably true, neither of them are the point. If we want to be accepted, we need to turn the other cheek and quit stirring ****. and the fact that 90% of the **** being stirred is based on a lack of fundamental understanding of each communities respective games is mindbogglingly pointless and hurts us in the long run. Now this begs the question: Do we want to be accepted by the Fighting Game Community? My feeling is that we do, so that we can correct the negative image we've been given, and the best way to do that is to start correcting how we act at tournaments. I think that trash talk withing communities is a fun and exciting way to build hype and rivalries. I also think it is just plain disrespectful to trash talk another community who's game you know nothing about.
Now, another question. What is more important? Respect, or acceptance? I'm a huge fan of Melee and love playing it competitively, but there is no reason to deny that our game wasn't designed to be played the way it is played now. It does not undermine what it has become, or devalue it, but to claim that your game is superior to other fighting games, especially when half the people who claim so don't even play "real" fighting games, is beyond pretentious. I don't blame some of them for hating us, and a lot of times I think we deserve the heat. If more of the Smash community could just accept that there game IS seperate from the fighting game community, then I think they'd probably show us at the very least a LOT more respect. We don't need them to say "yea your game is good guys", nor do we need to shove it down their throats, nor do we need to act hostile towards them.
I guess what is really boils down to is, the reason we aren't a real part of the Fighting Game Community is not because our game isn't deep enough or doesn't require enough skill or even because SRK hates us; It's because our game will always be a misfit. Misfits don't have to be hated, but a lot of the things I've mentioned above make it really easy and give such awful examples of our community that people draw conclusions, often rightfully so. I think we need to grow up as a community, and stop being on the fence. Do we want acceptance, or do we want to be separate? If we want to be separate, none of this post is relevant at all.
Melee, regardless of it's intended design, is a great game, and has at the very least stood the test of time. And I think for us to be accepted, we must first accept ourselves. What are we? A fighting game that should be part of the Fighting Game Community? Or are we satisfied being separate?
A game with depth is a game with depth. That is what Smash is; whether it is technically a fighting game or not (as determined by who? Not sure. Doesn't really matter) is irrelevant. It functions similarly to a fighting game minus some major elements (health bar, meter, etc) but has some unique elements (platforms, much more freedom of movement, direction influence, etc.)
The complex ruleset is there for the exact reason that everyone knows already: In vanilla settings, the game (assume i'm talking about Melee from now on unless I state otherwise, I don't play Brawl) is not fit for competitive play. That is because it was not designed to be that way. One thing that everyone has to realize is that regardless of a games intended design, there can be unexpected results. Melee's depth exists whether intentional or not, and there is nothing wrong with people taking their enjoyment of the game to another level and attempting to establish it as a real fighting game. Anyone who is annoyed or upset by this needs to get over it. If it weren't an enjoyable experience then the Smash community would be dead by now, and it isn't. We should be proud of what we've accomplished, proud of how fare we've come as a community, proud of how far we've pushed our game, and we should rejoice in the fact that there is still a lot more that can be accomplished.
Now, a few things I need to get across to a certain vocal minority of Smash players here. Melee is definitely an amazing game. And being elitists, only playing Melee and no other fighting games, believing without a doubt that this game is the pinnacle of fighting games is harmless, on it's own. But when you start spewing it on other fighting game forums, cross fighting game tournaments that happen to feature smash, or anywhere else you want to, it makes us look bad. And the truth is, nobody cares. Do I personally believe that Melee has a huge amount of depth? Yes. But that does not mean that I have to shove this view down other peoples throats. You are being a Jehovah's witness. A stereotype strikingly similar to that of a Melee player begging for acceptance on SRK. Stop it. You make us all look bad.
People will always see the Smash Community as a group of people who are trying to make Smash into something it is not. This is something that will always be true within the Smash Community, and we can't change that. What we can change is our attitudes. I've been to a ton of tournaments, and I know for a fact that our community is not as bad as the stereotypes I hear about it. I get plenty of advice, never had any issues, always have a really amazing time.
This is not what the average Fighting Game Community member sees, however. Because for some reason, instead of using the opportunity of a cross game tournament to reach out to the community, it instead results in arguments, fighting for space / setups, trash talk, etc. This is unbecoming of a misfit community attempting to gain acceptance from a larger community, and leads to unnecessary word of mouth garbage shunning away plenty of potential players.
I'd like to see the stats on how many people from the Smash Community have been even remotely prominent at other fighters. And I'm willing to wager that the number is quite low. Now, don't misunderstand what I'm saying here. I'm not attempting to say that Smashers are bad at Fighting Games, or that the Fighting Game Community is bad at Smash. Because while both of these statements are probably true, neither of them are the point. If we want to be accepted, we need to turn the other cheek and quit stirring ****. and the fact that 90% of the **** being stirred is based on a lack of fundamental understanding of each communities respective games is mindbogglingly pointless and hurts us in the long run. Now this begs the question: Do we want to be accepted by the Fighting Game Community? My feeling is that we do, so that we can correct the negative image we've been given, and the best way to do that is to start correcting how we act at tournaments. I think that trash talk withing communities is a fun and exciting way to build hype and rivalries. I also think it is just plain disrespectful to trash talk another community who's game you know nothing about.
Now, another question. What is more important? Respect, or acceptance? I'm a huge fan of Melee and love playing it competitively, but there is no reason to deny that our game wasn't designed to be played the way it is played now. It does not undermine what it has become, or devalue it, but to claim that your game is superior to other fighting games, especially when half the people who claim so don't even play "real" fighting games, is beyond pretentious. I don't blame some of them for hating us, and a lot of times I think we deserve the heat. If more of the Smash community could just accept that there game IS seperate from the fighting game community, then I think they'd probably show us at the very least a LOT more respect. We don't need them to say "yea your game is good guys", nor do we need to shove it down their throats, nor do we need to act hostile towards them.
I guess what is really boils down to is, the reason we aren't a real part of the Fighting Game Community is not because our game isn't deep enough or doesn't require enough skill or even because SRK hates us; It's because our game will always be a misfit. Misfits don't have to be hated, but a lot of the things I've mentioned above make it really easy and give such awful examples of our community that people draw conclusions, often rightfully so. I think we need to grow up as a community, and stop being on the fence. Do we want acceptance, or do we want to be separate? If we want to be separate, none of this post is relevant at all.
Melee, regardless of it's intended design, is a great game, and has at the very least stood the test of time. And I think for us to be accepted, we must first accept ourselves. What are we? A fighting game that should be part of the Fighting Game Community? Or are we satisfied being separate?
) and would hate on Brawl anyways.
