Tripping -- Everything I don't know

[Twin Dreams]

I'm considering doing some testing to determine trip qualities.

These are a list of questions I feel should be answered. So, if you know the answer or would like to take it upon yourself to test for one, please help me out. This topic is for the exploration of the intricacies of tripping. Nothing more. I don't have as much time to test things with Brawl than I did with Melee. Plus, when taking the nature of probability, the larger the trials more exact your data is. So, if many of you perform tests, we can get more accurate information.



What is the probability to trip?



Is the probability dynamic?
After reading a topic about move having a "trip" quality to increase the probability of tripping. This leads me to believe that the probability to trip may not be constant, but a changing value. The questions below are assuming this.

---Do different motions have differing probabilities to trip?


---Do characters have different probability to trip?


---Does terrain affect probability to trip?


---Does traction affect probability to trip?


---Does the winning player have a higher probability to trip?


---Does percentage affect the probability to trip?


---Does the difference in stock/score affect the probability of tripping?


---Does the probability wear down or increase as you trip?


---Does your opponent tripping affect your probability?


---Does getting hit/hitting someone affect probability?


---Does probability increase/decrease with time?


---Do certain actions increase/decrease probability?


---Does the speed you're traveling affect probability?


---Does how fast you move the control stick affect the chance to trip?


When can you trip? (Rather, Is there a time you can't trip?)


Does tripping cancel attack/grab/jump/shield/etc. animation?


Can tripping be avoided by tilting to walk?


Is tripping subject to buffering?







I'll update the front page as questions are disproved/answered.



Or, worst case scenario, this topic will fade away with no notice, lol.

 

[Corigames]

The sad thing is that no matter how we try to get around tripping, it should have never been put in there in the first place :/

 

[DiasFlac]

seems completely random to me but to answer one of your questions I don't think its depends on who's winning. I was losing badly one game then tripped in front of my opponent causing me the match. (wasn't doing well in that match anyways)

Iceclimbers seem to trip a lot I believe but maybe I'm just unlucky. I tripped 4times almost back to back with Bowser one match. (was playing on Metaknights Halbert)

Don't remember how it went exactly but it was something like.

Running A, *tripped*, Fair, dash guard, *tripped*, retreat to a back air, *tripped*, upsmash, *tripped*

Sounds silly but this actually happened. Luckily I wasn't near the opponent or the opponent just got hit by one of my attacks when these trips occurred so it didn't damage my play much. (still lame tho)

Also I don't believe tripping affects the fact that your opponent will have a higher chance at tripping. I've played loads of matches where I tripped through out the game and my opponent hasn't tripped ONCE!

when this happens I'm usually playing against a campy Toon Link who just spams projectiles then runs to the other side of the stage. You'd think because he's doing all of the running he'd be the one to trip more...

 

[Twin Dreams]

I'd prefer to not have whining or commenting outside of my topic. Which is the discussion of trip mechanics.



Not to sound like an ***, I just want to stop this early.

 

[Twin Dreams]

Also I don't believe tripping affects the fact that your opponent will have a higher chance at tripping. I've played loads of matches where I tripped through out the game and my opponent hasn't tripped ONCE!

Well, actually, on another board a guy did a test that supported the idea that a winning player will trip more often. Not sure of the specifics, my brother, he told me about it, will probably confirm and possibly give more details if he posts in this thread.



I'll also look for the other trip topic and put the link in my opening post.

 

[DiasFlac]

Well, actually, on another board a guy did a test that supported the idea that a winning player will trip more often. Not sure of the specifics, my brother, he told me about it, will probably confirm and possibly give more details if he posts in this thread.



I'll also look for the other trip topic and put the link in my opening post.

Could be the case but I've played matches where I'm winning big time and haven't tripped once. Its a confusing thing but maybe their is something to it.

Either way Good luck on your data search on it. Might help out in the future.

Check out Iceclimbers. They seem to trip a lot. x.x

 

[RazeveX]

i think most people agree that tripping is much more likely in the inital dash animation.

 

[studly]

have any of u ever tripped with the ice climbers....god its so anoying...and sometimes they both tripp, even when de-synced

 

[Twin Dreams]

have any of u ever tripped with the ice climbers....god its so anoying...and sometimes they both tripp, even when de-synced

If you aren't going to post on topic, then I'd really appreciate it if you didn't post.



Once again: Discussion of trip mechanics.

 

[Timat the Slayer]

Well, I haven't personally tested this a out, but I've noticed from my personal experience that Heavier characters end up tripping a bit more than Light weights when they try dashing.

I play Ike, and seem to trip relatively often, and I play against a Ganon often enough (who trips all the friggen time) and I played against a DDD and he tripped a decent amount as well. Yet, the same person that played DDD, also played MK and Kirby, and barely ever tripped.

Yet I noticed when I play Lucario, or Link, I rarely trip as well. The matches were fairly even (stock based) from what I recall.

But, this is just from personal experience, and I haven't tested this out. I might test this later though, and if I do I'll tell you what comes out of it.

 

[Yuna]

How can you not know any of those things?

 

[DiasFlac]

How can you not know any of those things?

how can you know any of those things? if you know, share.

 

[Yuna]

These are a list of questions I feel should be answered. So, if you know the answer or would like to take it upon yourself to test for one, please help me out. This topic is for the exploration of the intricacies of tripping. Nothing more. I don't have as much time to test things with Brawl than I did with Melee. Plus, when taking the nature of probability, the larger the trials more exact your data is. So, if many of you perform tests, we can get more accurate information.

There's already several threads on tripping. Hitaku did extensive testings on it and posted the results in one of them.

What is the probability to trip?

Approx. 1% on normal terrain.

Is the probability dynamic?

No, it is constant, unless... (read below)

---Do different motions have differing probabilities to trip?

What different motions? No, there's only one way to trip on your own (smash the control stick).

---Do characters have different probability to trip?

No. Some people will trip more often as some characters but that's just fluke. Hitaku found no substance to the "Some characters trip more theory".

---Does terrain affect probability to trip?

Yes, ice, for example, has a much higher chance of you tripping (3% IIRC).

---Does traction affect probability to trip?

No.

---Does the winning player have a higher probability to trip?

No.

---Does percentage affect the probability to trip?

Yes. To a small degree, IIRC.

---Does the difference in stock/score affect the probability of tripping?

No.

---Does the probability wear down or increase as you trip?

No.

---Does your opponent tripping affect your probability?

No.

---Does getting hit/hitting someone affect probability?

Yes and no. Certain moves like several D-tilts have a chance of auto-tripping people (instead of getting launched or falling to the ground, they will literally trip out of them)...

---Does probability increase/decrease with time?

No.

---Do certain actions increase/decrease probability?

No.

---Does the speed you're traveling affect probability?

No.

---Does how fast you move the control stick affect the chance to trip?

No. You just trip once the control stick is fully smashed.

When can you trip? (Rather, Is there a time you can't trip?)

Any time you push the control stick fully to one side, like when you dash or F-tilt.

Does tripping cancel attack/grab/jump/shield/etc. animation?

You immediately trip, hence you cannot attack, grab, jump or shield out of it. Once those things come out, the trip cannot happen. Then again, once you trip, the commands cannot take place either.

Can tripping be avoided by tilting to walk?

You cannot trip by walking because if you smash the stick, you'll dash. If you tilt it to run and then tilt it all the way, you'll just walk at the fastest possible speed.

Is tripping subject to buffering?

I don't know the answer for this. I would assume you trip just normally.

 

[DiasFlac]

There's already several threads on tripping. Hitaku did extensive testings on it and posted the results in one of them.

Approx. 1% on normal terrain.


[/B]No, it is constant, unless... (read below)


What different motions? No, there's only one way to trip on your own (smash the control stick).


No. Some people will trip more often as some characters but that's just fluke. Hitaku found no substance to the "Some characters trip more theory".


Yes, ice, for example, has a much higher chance of you tripping (3% IIRC).


No.


No.


Yes. To a small degree, IIRC.


No.


No.


No.


Yes and no. Certain moves like several D-tilts have a chance of auto-tripping people (instead of getting launched or falling to the ground, they will literally trip out of them)...


No.


No.


No.


No. You just trip once the control stick is fully smashed.


Any time you push the control stick fully to one side, like when you dash or F-tilt.


You immediately trip, hence you cannot attack, grab, jump or shield out of it. Once those things come out, the trip cannot happen. Then again, once you trip, the commands cannot take place either.


You cannot trip by walking because if you smash the stick, you'll dash. If you tilt it to run and then tilt it all the way, you'll just walk at the fastest possible speed.


I don't know the answer for this. I would assume you trip just normally.

Good Stuff!

 

[Yuna]

Good Stuff!

Really easy to find out stuff!

 

[DiasFlac]

Really easy to find out stuff!

so you agree that Bowser is top tier then?

 

[Twin Dreams]

If tripping is only done when fully smashing the controller, wouldn't that mean that players will have to accept that as an inherent risk when dashing?

 

[Yuna]

If tripping is only done when fully smashing the controller, wouldn't that mean that players will have to accept that as an inherent risk when dashing?

And tilting.

 

[Nakamaru]

i've tripped just hitting the c-stick for a smash attack.

 

[-=Snowmanthatknows=-]

Tripping is 100% random, you can't prevent it or make it happen..it just happens.

More so to me, it's like I'm on acid when I play. @___@

 

[Yuna]

i've tripped just hitting the c-stick for a smash attack.

Yes, this is also possible. Some some have reported tripping from tilting and I assumed they were holding a direction and C-sticking in it.

 

[Taymond]

I was actually under the impression the C-Stick did not create a possibility of tripping, at least when you're using only the C-Stick, not both sticks in a tilt or angled smash combination. I don't remember any evidence from Hitaku's thread to support that, or from any of the others, really. Could you link me to some evidence for that, if you have it, Yuna? I'll need a change a small portion of my C-Stick guide if that's the case.

Also, I believe Hitaku's testing showed damage percent did not affect the probability of tripping on your own, but it did increase the probability of being tripped by a move. The rest of Yuna's answers are correct, as far as I know.

 

[ph00tbag]

And tilting.

Wait, I was under the impression that tripping only occurred when tapping, and that tilting the control stick couldn't initiate a trip.

Is there just a lower probability? Because I've never had a problem with tilting the control stick.

 

[mugwhump]

I was actually under the impression the C-Stick did not create a possibility of tripping, at least when you're using only the C-Stick, not both sticks in a tilt or angled smash combination. I don't remember any evidence from Hitaku's thread to support that, or from any of the others, really. Could you link me to some evidence for that, if you have it, Yuna? I'll need a change a small portion of my C-Stick guide if that's the case.

Also, I believe Hitaku's testing showed damage percent did not affect the probability of tripping on your own, but it did increase the probability of being tripped by a move. The rest of Yuna's answers are correct, as far as I know.

Indeed, I also didn't believe you could trip from hitting the c-stick (set to smashes, though someone should test the special-stick as well.)

Hitaku is incorrect about about higher percentage increasing the chance of being tripped, though most moves do have a set range of damages in which they can cause trip.

And I would assume that performing a buffered dash gives you just as much chance of tripping as a regular dash.

 

[cwjalex]

Iceclimbers seem to trip a lot I believe but maybe I'm just unlucky. I tripped 4times almost back to back with Bowser one match. (was playing on Metaknights Halbert)

I actually believe I trip more when using the ice climbers as well. Maybe the game considers them two characters and makes the probability 2% instead of 1%? I know it's a pretty far fetched theory but I don't really have any other explanation for this observation.

Then again...it could be as simple as I dash more with the climbers when de-synching...or I'm just supporting the confirmation bias by seeing others state the same observation.

 

[Twin Dreams]

Can anyone confirm on when you can trip when walking? My brother walked around on Ice for 20 minutes and didn't trip once.

 

[Drunken_Dragon]

im pretty positive you cant trip while walking, and ive never seen it while tilting.


only with initial frames of a dash, which you technically get and cancel out of when you do fsmash without c stick.


i only smash with the cstick, and ive never gotten a trip from it.

where is the thread/link where all this info came from?

 

[heroboy]

we thought he meant walking when he said tilting, since that results from a tilt in the control stick.

I walked on ice for like 20 minutes and did not trip once. So to expand the results, I was asking if anyone else could confirm that walking doesn't result in tripping.

If it's true, then that makes tripping just an inherent risk to dashing, and should be thought of as a classic risk/reward scenario.

 

[Twin Dreams]

Yes, considering that you can only trip during the ID (and while tilting + c-stick, supposedly) then walking seems like the way to go. No tripping and you can do anything out of a walk.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I was actually under the impression the C-Stick did not create a possibility of tripping, at least when you're using only the C-Stick, not both sticks in a tilt or angled smash combination. I don't remember any evidence from Hitaku's thread to support that, or from any of the others, really. Could you link me to some evidence for that, if you have it, Yuna? I'll need a change a small portion of my C-Stick guide if that's the case.

Also, I believe Hitaku's testing showed damage percent did not affect the probability of tripping on your own, but it did increase the probability of being tripped by a move. The rest of Yuna's answers are correct, as far as I know.

I think it would be possible wouldn't it?
Since C stick is basically a regular smash minus the control stick.
It would mean that the game reads C sticking the same as a regular smash with the control stick.

The word stick invokes memories of halo 3.
STICKY!

 

[Twin Dreams]

I think it would be possible wouldn't it?
Since C stick is basically a regular smash minus the control stick.
It would mean that the game reads C sticking the same as a regular smash with the control stick.

The word stick invokes memories of halo 3.
STICKY!

Wouldn't that mean you can trip any time you smash regardless of input????

and if THAT'S the case, wouldn't that mean you can trip anytime the game could consider an input of a smash on the control stick??





I tried with multiple characters on multiple stages and I never tripped while only smashing. I believe I tripped once while tilting and smashing, but then this would suggest that tilting to walk can cause you to trip. What's the difference between tilting to walk and tilting while smashing??

 

[Taymond]

I think it would be possible wouldn't it?
Since C stick is basically a regular smash minus the control stick.
It would mean that the game reads C sticking the same as a regular smash with the control stick.

The word stick invokes memories of halo 3.
STICKY!

Not really. A normal smash attack doesn't require frame-perfect input. It has a little slack allowed in what it considers a smash attack, there's not just 1 precise frame when you need to do both actions. You can slam the control stick and press A a frame later, and you'll still get a Smash attack.

That one frame before you press A would normally be a dash, however, and it still is. The game is designed, however, to pull you out of the dash if your A input is close enough to interpret a Smash. Before that input arrives, however, the game must treat your Control Stick slam as a dash, in case.. it is a dash.

Using the C-Stick ensures frame-perfect input every time. The C-Stick will always register the Control Stick smash and the A button in the same frame, so no pre-A dash animation will be present. Without that pre-A dash, you can't trip.

Now, if you perform a frame-perfect smash manually, then you can't trip. It's not like using the Control Stick will always allow tripping. But when you're off by a frame or however many are allowed, you have the potential to trip in those frames you're considered dashing.

The difference is just that a C-Stick is always perfect input, whereas manual smashes aren't always.