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Trying to get into Brawl competitively....
- Thread starter Mangoh862
- Start date
Thor
Smash Champion
Well your main icon suggests you're on the right track if you want to do well... I have no idea how you play, what you struggle with, your local area's character composition (is it only MKs or do you have all the random mid-tiers), or whatever, but...
General advice for ICs:
- Know your CGs. Kind of a "duh", but converting every grab to a stock is vitally important, and even good IC mains mess it up sometimes, which can swing an entire match out of your favor. You should be prepared to CG MK (of course), but also practice Marth and Snake (a midweight and a super heavyweight). It's not a bad idea to practice every character that can give you issues (MK, Snake, TL, Peach, ZSS) so you have your infinites against them down pat. You should also have a general idea of KO percents against each character in your head [and I say you should then usually go about 10% beyond that], in order to ensure you always land the KO if you do CG the opponent successfully.
- You have to be patient. ICs can try to force the issue, but that doesn't tend to work out well. While you may end up fighting someone who acts like Anti from Apex 2013 (where he timed 9B out twice), these people are not common (and if you hit one and they screw up once, they now have to take stocks and percent to even it up again).
- Look to understand the ditto well. ICs are the only character in the game where the ditto looks radically different from fighting any other character. In [almost] every other ditto, just being really good at your character's best strategy can help you win the ditto, but this is not the case with ICs, since you can't just CG two climbers to death. I suggest watching ESAM vs 9B from SKTAR 3 to see some of the things ICs can do to themselves.
- Be mindful of how you pursue a combo - since you would seem to play all the games, know that Brawl is the game with the shortest effective histun (coded the same as Melee, but unlike in Melee you can interrupt hitstun with airdodges and attacks). Going too hard for a followup on, say, Marth, can get you hit by a forward air, which isn't what you want at all. On the flip side, if you think they'll fair you, trying to avoid the fair and land another hit (say nair) is very valuable, and doing this repeatedly will rack up a large amount of damage quickly.
There's tons more general advice to be given, but I think this should be enough to think about for now.
General advice for ICs:
- Know your CGs. Kind of a "duh", but converting every grab to a stock is vitally important, and even good IC mains mess it up sometimes, which can swing an entire match out of your favor. You should be prepared to CG MK (of course), but also practice Marth and Snake (a midweight and a super heavyweight). It's not a bad idea to practice every character that can give you issues (MK, Snake, TL, Peach, ZSS) so you have your infinites against them down pat. You should also have a general idea of KO percents against each character in your head [and I say you should then usually go about 10% beyond that], in order to ensure you always land the KO if you do CG the opponent successfully.
- You have to be patient. ICs can try to force the issue, but that doesn't tend to work out well. While you may end up fighting someone who acts like Anti from Apex 2013 (where he timed 9B out twice), these people are not common (and if you hit one and they screw up once, they now have to take stocks and percent to even it up again).
- Look to understand the ditto well. ICs are the only character in the game where the ditto looks radically different from fighting any other character. In [almost] every other ditto, just being really good at your character's best strategy can help you win the ditto, but this is not the case with ICs, since you can't just CG two climbers to death. I suggest watching ESAM vs 9B from SKTAR 3 to see some of the things ICs can do to themselves.
- Be mindful of how you pursue a combo - since you would seem to play all the games, know that Brawl is the game with the shortest effective histun (coded the same as Melee, but unlike in Melee you can interrupt hitstun with airdodges and attacks). Going too hard for a followup on, say, Marth, can get you hit by a forward air, which isn't what you want at all. On the flip side, if you think they'll fair you, trying to avoid the fair and land another hit (say nair) is very valuable, and doing this repeatedly will rack up a large amount of damage quickly.
There's tons more general advice to be given, but I think this should be enough to think about for now.
Also, look up desynch techniques (assumin you haven't already), helps you apply pressure without committing.
Playing a lot in general helps immensely. Just learn the games core mechanics inside out is the best way to go, even if you've been playing for a while (Smash always surprises you, and new things are being discovered and used all the time).
Other than that, watch some videos. Look at what happens when a player gets hit. Why did they get hit? These details are all important for your pressure, defense and offensive playing at the same time
Playing a lot in general helps immensely. Just learn the games core mechanics inside out is the best way to go, even if you've been playing for a while (Smash always surprises you, and new things are being discovered and used all the time).
Other than that, watch some videos. Look at what happens when a player gets hit. Why did they get hit? These details are all important for your pressure, defense and offensive playing at the same time
well I'm visiting Europe right now, but back home I have mostly Diddy's MK's and alot of Marth's (also my secondaries are Marth and Olimar). and thanks 
It's cool to see people treat Brawl like a game and not like the garbage melee fanboys say it is. I'll take this all into account when practicing :D (also I didn't know ZSS was a problem for Icees lol big thanks for that heads up)
It's cool to see people treat Brawl like a game and not like the garbage melee fanboys say it is. I'll take this all into account when practicing :D (also I didn't know ZSS was a problem for Icees lol big thanks for that heads up)Where abouts are you in europe?
And its quite discouraging seeing brawl treated like garbage, especially in my local scene where theres a total of 1 other brawl player that will play if I ask, and he doesn't practice anymore. And it's a shame people are moving on to sm4sh so quickly. I think there's a lot to learn from brawl (sm4sh is where the brawl scene is heading in most parts).
Stick at your brawl, hopefully people appreciate you in your scene
And its quite discouraging seeing brawl treated like garbage, especially in my local scene where theres a total of 1 other brawl player that will play if I ask, and he doesn't practice anymore. And it's a shame people are moving on to sm4sh so quickly. I think there's a lot to learn from brawl (sm4sh is where the brawl scene is heading in most parts).
Stick at your brawl, hopefully people appreciate you in your scene
I havent looked up any desynch tech (but I've been meaning to) thanks for the helpful reminder. as for the other stuff mentioned, will do (I'm actually watching some singles right now)
Im in Hungary (currently in a small little town. not much smash in Hungary in general tho. but I have a friend here who used to play. we haven't gotten around to playing yet, but I hope he is good.) and ya, I like smash 4 but It doeasnt feel like smash bros to me... It is a GREAT game, and Sakurai did an amazing job. But it just feels too different to just "migrate" to it from Brawl like everyone is. So for now us lonely Brawl players just have to stick together (I hear Apex is having Brawl in 2015... hopefully its 3 stocks and not the GOML stuff....) but over all thanks for the tips
I barely play brawl with anyone anymore (because there is no-one).
that sucks :/
CoolBoyCorporate
Smash Cadet
I've used Marth ever since Melee and one of the general things that I have always been able to take advantage vs Large/Slower chars is short front or back hoping with max range neutral A. It forces opponents to approach from above and allows you to abuse his grab and attack with a combo or set up.
Faster chars have always been my kryptonite with Marth because he doesn't have the greatest recovery speed on most moves but this is when I approach from above more aggressively with a high single jump and speed down with a neutral A and follow up with proper reactions if they block or try to dodge.
Against Olimar in brawl, Marth should just jump forward and space fairs. Don't panic too much when pikmin get latched onto you (unless its a white, then you should probably do something). Make sure you are pressuring olimar as hard as possible, while spacing yourself from smashes. Watch olimar's pikmin carefully. If ther's purple up soon, watch out for it because unstaled upsmash kills at 80 on battlefield.If you are getting hit, you are mis-spacing.
Yellows have massive hitboxes on smashes, really really deveibingly large.
Your only goal is to get olimar offstage in this matchup. Once he is offstage, you just need to grab ledge (but watch out for stage spikes from upB).
If you are offstage you should try to get to ledge as much as possible. If you UpB to the stage then a nasty punish as well as a bunch of pressure onto you will be coming your way. Use sideB cleverly and conserve your jump.
If you are above olimar, bait out the upair (or upB as some olimars like to do that) try move around it and fastfall an airdodge through (this is really risky and usually fails) as long as the olimar plays it correctly you shouldn't be coming down. So you need to use side-b and counter.
Approach in different ways; every approach you do can be punished in some way or another and once you have olimar at the edge, you will need to make a read onto what olimar does. This is where you will deal your damage.
Apparently you also need to pressure Tlink in the same way, but I haven't heard much about that matchup for marth.
Moves you SHOULD use: Fair, dtilt, airdodge, shield, nair (to remove pikmin from your body).
As marth, go to stages with platforms. Preferrably battlefield or lylat.
Here is a great icies vs peach match: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_p6ix17THw
Ic's vs peach is a sad matchup for Ic's: Peach can separate with dair and grabbing her is a rarity. Don't approach her when peach's float starts to end, she will retreat with a lagless fair.
Peach also has really cute movement gimmicks to bait out grabs when she is grounded, and superior air mobility when airborne
Basically, you need to try and sneak in uairs beneath her dair and pressure with desynched blizzard and ice blocks when her float is running low.
Turnips shouldn't be a big deal. But if they are, don't let her pluck. (get close enough to stop her plucking)
Sorry if the information is a bit scattered.
Yellows have massive hitboxes on smashes, really really deveibingly large.
Your only goal is to get olimar offstage in this matchup. Once he is offstage, you just need to grab ledge (but watch out for stage spikes from upB).
If you are offstage you should try to get to ledge as much as possible. If you UpB to the stage then a nasty punish as well as a bunch of pressure onto you will be coming your way. Use sideB cleverly and conserve your jump.
If you are above olimar, bait out the upair (or upB as some olimars like to do that) try move around it and fastfall an airdodge through (this is really risky and usually fails) as long as the olimar plays it correctly you shouldn't be coming down. So you need to use side-b and counter.
Approach in different ways; every approach you do can be punished in some way or another and once you have olimar at the edge, you will need to make a read onto what olimar does. This is where you will deal your damage.
Apparently you also need to pressure Tlink in the same way, but I haven't heard much about that matchup for marth.
Moves you SHOULD use: Fair, dtilt, airdodge, shield, nair (to remove pikmin from your body).
As marth, go to stages with platforms. Preferrably battlefield or lylat.
Here is a great icies vs peach match: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_p6ix17THw
Ic's vs peach is a sad matchup for Ic's: Peach can separate with dair and grabbing her is a rarity. Don't approach her when peach's float starts to end, she will retreat with a lagless fair.
Peach also has really cute movement gimmicks to bait out grabs when she is grounded, and superior air mobility when airborne
Basically, you need to try and sneak in uairs beneath her dair and pressure with desynched blizzard and ice blocks when her float is running low.
Turnips shouldn't be a big deal. But if they are, don't let her pluck. (get close enough to stop her plucking)
Sorry if the information is a bit scattered.
def pick up Brawl!!! you will not be dissapoint
its not at all scattered! thanks alot! A move that is good to use to get pikmin off (or prevent them from latching on in the first place) is Nair as well. thanks again for the help. i go back home tomorrow, so I will take all these things into account :D
misterOWAIN33
Smash Journeyman
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I've gotta say Brawl is my favorite Smash game as well, and not a lot of people play it.
I'm basically in the same boat as Mangoh, looking for Brawl advice and such. My mains are in my sig that I change once in a while...
EDIT: PS I also use
I'm basically in the same boat as Mangoh, looking for Brawl advice and such. My mains are in my sig that I change once in a while...
EDIT: PS I also use
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misterOWAIN33
Smash Journeyman
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YAI! I love being annoying!
Also,
Well, there are lots of people who hate on Brawl on this site, but if any thread goes all
DEATH TO BRAWL AND ALL WHO DIDN'T HATE IT!!!!1!!!!!111!!!!!
then the moderators/administrators do a good job of shutting it down.
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well that's nice. also nice one with the accidental 1's lol ive seen stuff like that all too often. As for tips with pit.....side b. alot.YAI! I love being annoying!
Also,
Well, there are lots of people who hate on Brawl on this site, but if any thread goes all
DEATH TO BRAWL AND ALL WHO DIDN'T HATE IT!!!!1!!!!!111!!!!!
then the moderators/administrators do a good job of shutting it down.
misterOWAIN33
Smash Journeyman
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Except my accidental 1's are on purpose.
Also, one quick question: does anyone know of any "easy" chaingrabs?
Now, I know that CG's aren't easy. Don't kill me.
I also know that I am at a disadvantage with my Wiichuck controls that I prefer. Don't kill me.
I'm thinking of getting a classic controller.
So anyway, CG's with those characters?
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Radirgy
Smash Apprentice
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Are there any differences between Pal and NTSC Brawl? I live in the UK but own a USA Brawl because of project m. As far as I'm aware there are no gameplay differences but there was like a 6/3 month gap between EU and the JPN/US releases but from what I remember that because most of the text had to be changed so that game names, game release dates and grammer were correct for the region.
well there are differences in blast zones, and some little % differences, and little stuff. nothing too big.
Thor
Smash Champion
Test this, but I think you can remove Pikmin with counter as well [you should test this]. [If it works] not necessarily ideal, but it's also a decent landing option if you jump into a shielding Olimar (since if you counter, they may look for a grab, but your counter hits them). This is somewhat pedestrian though, so many Olimars will likely see this coming.
Some other stuff people discussed:
Ike's best moves are bair, nair, and his jab. Jab cancelling with it can lead to huge percent if they don't SDI quickly (but you should rarely cancel more than once, since if they know what SDI is they'll start doing it). jab -> utilt can work for KOs. Fair autocancels if you do it immediately out of a full hop, but that's not TOO useful unless you're meeting someone in the air. Ike's smash attacks are generally too laggy to be of good use against good opponents - usmash can be used to catch people on platforms, but even then, except to get hit hard if you miss.
Easy chaingrabs? As Falco, dthrow CG is about as easy as they come. Not a chaingrab, but I think Ike gets backthrow -> dash attack guaranteed from around 50%-100%. I heard these numbers elsewhere, and they may vary slightly, but it's some bizarre combination of Brawl's ability to dodge out of hitstun being irrelevant combined with how the throws calculate hitstun and the like adding up to this only linking in that (rough) range. Note that I think you need to buffer the dash attack.
PAL and US differences? There should be none [besides some aesthetics stuff] if this is accurate: http://www.ssbwiki.com/PAL
thanks! I recently ordered a new gamecube controller, since my old one broke.... so I will take these into account. also my Marth seems to be getting better! now i need to work on IC's and Shiek.
Thor
Smash Champion
If you have the stuff needed to do Brawl Wi-Fi (there's a thread for it), I believe I have the SD card and stuff already in place and so just have to pop it in. My FC is 4986-6645-6355 if you'd like to play me. I'm not super good or anything but practicing against humans is always a good idea.
For the record, I play Pikachu, some Falco, and I can MK well enough. I can also play some other characters [Ike, Ganondorf, Diddy Kong, Fox, Wolf, Falcon, Samus, ZSS,... list goes on but it's not everyone - for instance, I do very poorly with Bowser], but not as well if you'd like some specific practice.
For the record, I play Pikachu, some Falco, and I can MK well enough. I can also play some other characters [Ike, Ganondorf, Diddy Kong, Fox, Wolf, Falcon, Samus, ZSS,... list goes on but it's not everyone - for instance, I do very poorly with Bowser], but not as well if you'd like some specific practice.
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misterOWAIN33
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Thanks!
Thor
Smash Champion
Yes you do unfortunately. You also had to get your FC in the system a while ago or else you have to do some special steps (unless it's already in for PM). I do have Brawl Wi-Fi on SD card already, so if you can [and want to] set it up we possibly can play some if I get your FC [but if you don't want to set it up, don't bother] (though not today, or at least not until [in my timezone] late tonight, since I have to do some stuff around the house and my parents are taking our whole family to dinner in 3 hours).
well i still havent found a 2 gig (hungary's smalest is 4 GB) but i will keep looking. also do i have to set up the wifi on brawl the same way you did in order for us to play, or is it universal? (the types of servers i/you use that is)
classic controller is good but use what you likeExcept my accidental 1's are on purpose.
Also, one quick question: does anyone know of any "easy" chaingrabs?
Now, I know that CG's aren't easy. Don't kill me.
I also know that I am at a disadvantage with my Wiichuck controls that I prefer. Don't kill me.
I'm thinking of getting a classic controller.
So anyway, CG's with those characters?
and no sorry, idk about any CG's for charas oter than IC's and FalcoYou connect to one server, so it is universal, no matter what method you use.
I know that yoshi (and bowser?) have grab release chaingrabs on some of the cast (yoshi has an infinite on wario)Except my accidental 1's are on purpose.
Also, one quick question: does anyone know of any "easy" chaingrabs?
Now, I know that CG's aren't easy. Don't kill me.
So anyway, CG's with those characters?
Olimar can chaingrab bad DI on space animals I think.
I think marth has some wierd fthrow shenanigans on certain characters, but I'm not sure.
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Thor
Smash Champion
If at some point you set up Wi-Fi, I think you can play? That is, if you did stuff to be able to access Wi-Fi post-May 20th (or whatever date it was that Nintendo shut down their servers), you should be fine.
Swampertrulz
Smash Lord
I would suggest doing Project M