Meta Two Sides of the Same Coin - Pit/ Dark Pit Meta Game Discussion

[UberMadman]

wrong.

pit has the good arm and the good arrows. pits arm is actually objectively better because it also has super armor and it kills earlier against every character in the game. pit also has an f tilt that kills earlier because of the tipper. all dark pit has is an f throw that kills slightly earlier

Dark Pit's arm also has Super Armor, and they both have similar kill power - the difference is that Dark Pit's sends them at an angle while Pit's sends them straight up. Pit's technically does kill slightly earlier as a result, but it still takes a long time to kill, and if they live, which they usually will, then Dark Pit creates the better situation (offstage vs. onstage.) It's up to preference, but I prefer Dark Pit's because it creates more advantageous situations.

 

[MiloniVanili]

Dark Pit's arm also has Super Armor, and they both have similar kill power - the difference is that Dark Pit's sends them at an angle while Pit's sends them straight up. Pit's technically does kill slightly earlier as a result, but it still takes a long time to kill, and if they live, which they usually will, then Dark Pit creates the better situation (offstage vs. onstage.) It's up to preference, but I prefer Dark Pit's because it creates more advantageous situations.

pits side b kills at roughly 120. earlier if you catch them charging smashes later if they are super heavy. dark pits wont kill until around 160+ unless they are at the ledge then it kills at around 125. at which point you are better off f throwing them most of the time. pits also creates an advantageous situation every time it hits because they are stuck in the air even if they dont die getting out of the air against pit is really hard.

Dark Pit can use controllable arrows if he feels like it, and the difference between that custom and Pit's normal/controllable arrow custom is not that big since both are very precise, especially at long range, which is practically the only time you should use arrows.

Both Pit's and Dark Pit's arms have super armor, and Dark Pit's does 0.5% more. I have no idea where you got you're information. The arm you want to use is stage dependent most of the time, seeing as Dark Pit's sends you diagonally upwards and Pit's sends you upwards. However, Dark Pit's can force gimp situations since it sends opponents offstage, setting up for gimps with arrows or aerials. Pit's can KO earlier on platforms, and Dark Pit's can KO earlier near the edge of the stage.

The Ftilt is the only outright advantage Pit has (I really don't know why it has more knock back, or even why Dark Pit's arm does 0.5% more damage, considering everything else bar the arms and arrows are the same, even the Ftilt's damage output). The KO percents are- Tipper KO%s 163%, 134% Sour KO%s 223%, 184%
The difference is 30%, and FSmash KOs sooner anyway, plus the only time you KO is with the tipper. It might make Pit higher on the tier list by 1 spot, but both characters are so similar that the stage makes the most difference.

1: thats assuming custom moves arent banned, in which case dark pits is still worse than pits custom because pits goes further

2: 0.5% means literally nothing. pit side b kills earlier everywhere on every stage. actually go test it like i have. it actually doesnt set up gimp situations because it sends them up and slightly off stage. if it sent them directly to the left/right then you would have a point but it sends them diagonally at an angle where they wont die from it and they are still high enough to just float back to the stage.


3: F smash comes out a lot slower and is way more punishable. f tilt is so much safer and generally better to use


its literally like comparing ryu and ken. this isnt sf3 so ryu/pit is straight up better in every scenario. pit will probably be atleast 5 spots higher. dark pit is still a good character because of the kit itself being solid but its like dark pit bought his kit from the discount bin at family dollar

 

[ZephyrZ]

I main Pittoo, and personally, I don't miss Pit's curving arrows one bit. They're good for gimping, sure, but I'm not the type for waiting on the stage and shooting my foes down from a safe distance. I chase them off the stage and crush them there. With four jumps and a very fast, long ranged recovery move, fighting off stage isn't all that risky compared to most other characters.

But I suppose that's just my personal play style.

 

[LancerStaff]

pits side b kills at roughly 120. earlier if you catch them charging smashes later if they are super heavy. dark pits wont kill until around 160+ unless they are at the ledge then it kills at around 125. at which point you are better off f throwing them most of the time. pits also creates an advantageous situation every time it hits because they are stuck in the air even if they dont die getting out of the air against pit is really hard.



1: thats assuming custom moves arent banned, in which case dark pits is still worse than pits custom because pits goes further

2: 0.5% means literally nothing. pit side b kills earlier everywhere on every stage. actually go test it like i have. it actually doesnt set up gimp situations because it sends them up and slightly off stage. if it sent them directly to the left/right then you would have a point but it sends them diagonally at an angle where they wont die from it and they are still high enough to just float back to the stage.


3: F smash comes out a lot slower and is way more punishable. f tilt is so much safer and generally better to use


its literally like comparing ryu and ken. this isnt sf3 so ryu/pit is straight up better in every scenario. pit will probably be atleast 5 spots higher. dark pit is still a good character because of the kit itself being solid but its like dark pit bought his kit from the discount bin at family dollar

Pit's arm KOs at like 140. You're a bit off again.

And DP has different matchups. Good ones against notable characters like Rosalina and Mac. Won't mean much for tiers though, since you should always pick the one better for the situation. They'll share a spot because people will counterpick with DP.

 

[Xmark]

Pit's arm KOs at like 140. You're a bit off again.

And DP has different matchups. Good ones against notable characters like Rosalina and Mac. Won't mean much for tiers though, since you should always pick the one better for the situation. They'll share a spot because people will counterpick with DP.

Can we factor in 's coolness as an attribute? lol X3

 

[MiloniVanili]

Pit's arm KOs at like 140. You're a bit off again.

And DP has different matchups. Good ones against notable characters like Rosalina and Mac. Won't mean much for tiers though, since you should always pick the one better for the situation. They'll share a spot because people will counterpick with DP.

how does dp do better against rosalina and mac? the matchups are pretty much exactly the same but with dp having less kill options

 

[LancerStaff]

how does dp do better against rosalina and mac? the matchups are pretty much exactly the same but with dp having less kill options

Electroshock Arm >>>>>>>> Jolt Haymaker and Luma. Mac is dead if he's hit when trying to recover, and Luma dies from it just about anywhere.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Can we factor in 's coolness as an attribute? lol X3

Only in Pit vs Pittoo matchups. "Where is your goddess now?"

how does dp do better against rosalina and mac? the matchups are pretty much exactly the same but with dp having less kill options

And by less kill options, you mean his bow, right? Because that side tilt isn't really the most valuable finisher in the world.

 

[LancerStaff]

Only in Pit vs Pittoo matchups. "Where is your goddess now?"And by less kill options, you mean his bow, right? Because that side tilt isn't really the most valuable finisher in the world.

It's pretty good actually. KOs at 130% in a good position.

 

[ZephyrZ]

It's pretty good actually. KOs at 130% in a good position.

Well, I suppose it's not bad.

But I'm not really sure if I miss it that much, since it has to be sweet spotted to kill at a decent percent. But maybe it's my newbiness and my aggressive play style again.

 

[LancerStaff]

Well, I suppose it's not bad.

But I'm not really sure if I miss it that much, since it has to be sweet spotted to kill at a decent percent. But maybe it's my newbiness and my aggressive play style again.

It's not a reason to pick one over the other, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't get my fair share of KOs with it.

 

[MiloniVanili]

Only in Pit vs Pittoo matchups. "Where is your goddess now?"And by less kill options, you mean his bow, right? Because that side tilt isn't really the most valuable finisher in the world.

i mean his side tilt which IS a very strong kill option and his side B which is objectively better at killing the other player

 

[Runawayfire]

The fact that I find Pit's best move to be ftilt makes Dark Pit a lot less viable in my eyes.
For either character its very hard to force a side-b or a forward smash for kills, so often ftilt can be your only option. With Dark Pit having the worse arrows to gimp too, he seems pretty much just worse...

 

[ZephyrZ]

So I did experiment with Dark Pit's Electroshock arm off-stage today, and it is really good at gimping Little Mac. The Upperdash Arm can't do that, at least. And with his great recovery, there's little risk in accidentally KOing yourself as well.

I'm going to have to admit that Pit is much better at KOing on-stage, but Dark Pit still does have one extra option for off-stage KOs.

 

[Pazzo.]

Still experimenting with Pit. What would you say Pit's greatest strength is? I feel like I'm playing him wrong.

 

[ReRaze]

@ ZephyrZ If you want to try gimp little macs off stage using the electroshock arm wouldnt a safer option be just to use fair?
also if i try and gimp someone i find pits guardian orbitars actually really good. Just jump off and use the shield while they try to recover and just push them away from the edge (works best when they are out of jumps). Ive used this to kill Greninjas, Lucinas etc
(works best on ness' recovery )

 

[Lenus Altair]

Still experimenting with Pit. What would you say Pit's greatest strength is? I feel like I'm playing him wrong.

I think it really is Pit's ground game. On stage, walking around with with Pit spacing out Ftlits, grabs, Updash, and arrows is enough to overwhelm most opponents. His neutral game is quite good.

Abuse the Ftilit! It's range and coverage is absurd. If your Ftlit is fresh, you're doing it wrong.

 

[SwoodGrommet]

Still experimenting with Pit. What would you say Pit's greatest strength is? I feel like I'm playing him wrong.

As well as what Lenus Altair said, I'd also like to say that he has exceptional edge guarding abilities. You have so many choices with this character. You can poke at them with arrows, or jump offstage. From there, you can go for a Spike (Dair, in the middle of the two blades) or if your opponent is far away from the stage, a Fair can kill them. Be careful with opponents who are dangerous in the air, e.g. Ganondorf. Another option is to wait at or near the edge of the stage and do a shorthop Nair to create a "wall" to stop them from returning to the stage. This works especially well with jumpy characters like or . Uair is also a fantastic multi-hit move that can juggle opponents and has great range.

I find that with Pit, even if his aerials are airdodged, he can punish the landing lag easily as his aerials have little landing lag and he is an overall agile character.

 

[MiloniVanili]

Still experimenting with Pit. What would you say Pit's greatest strength is? I feel like I'm playing him wrong.

he has crazy combo game. d throw > nair > u smash/nair is one of my favorites but basically all of his moves launch them at an angle where you can follow up really easily, 123 jab, d tilt, dash attack, nair, u tilt. his combo/string game is rediculous especially since nair can hit through air dodges pretty easily.

his best move imo is his nair. it covers lots of options and works in many scenarios


dont ever do the multi hit jab. it can be easily escaped. whereas the basic 123 is one of the better jabs in the game

 

[SwoodGrommet]

he has crazy combo game. d throw > nair > u smash/nair is one of my favorites but basically all of his moves launch them at an angle where you can follow up really easily, 123 jab, d tilt, dash attack, nair, u tilt. his combo/string game is rediculous especially since nair can hit through air dodges pretty easily.

his best move imo is his nair. it covers lots of options and works in many scenarios


dont ever do the multi hit jab. it can be easily escaped. whereas the basic 123 is one of the better jabs in the game

I'd just like to say that Pit's multi hit jab is probably his best move for punishing rolls. People will literally roll into it thinking they'll be able to bypass it and they end up getting punished badly. It's a good move, I wouldn't completely forget about it if I were you.

 

[ReRaze]

I use the infinite jab for edgeguarding. So far I've noticed my opponents CANNOT get back on the ledge unless they roll and if you can predict that you can punish them.

 

[Pazzo.]

Thanks for all the advice. I'll take it into mind when playing.

 

[MiloniVanili]

I'd just like to say that Pit's multi hit jab is probably his best move for punishing rolls. People will literally roll into it thinking they'll be able to bypass it and they end up getting punished badly. It's a good move, I wouldn't completely forget about it if I were you.

except the 123 jab does the same thing and they cant hold down and shield the last hit of it like they can with the multi hit

 

[ZephyrZ]

@ ZephyrZ If you want to try gimp little macs off stage using the electroshock arm wouldnt a safer option be just to use fair?

Oftentimes, yes. In fact, most of the time. Electroshock has the advantages of super armor and a dash as the start. Great for countering Jolt Haymaker and the like.

 

[SwoodGrommet]

except the 123 jab does the same thing and they cant hold down and shield the last hit of it like they can with the multi hit

Yes but it's easier to time the multi-hit and they can get caught in it for a long time since they rolled into the very back of the hitbox.

 

[MiloniVanili]

Yes but it's easier to time the multi-hit and they can get caught in it for a long time since they rolled into the very back of the hitbox.

the timing for 123 is pretty easy lel

 

[SwoodGrommet]

the timing for 123 is pretty easy lel

Just saying I don't prefer the 123 Jab compared to the multi-hit. They get hit for longer as well since they're pushed to the back of the hitbox. Use the 123 by all means, just saying I would rather use the multi-hit. The multi-hit is also safer to use as it basically confirms a punish, while the 123 lets the roller have a better chance of bypassing your attack because of it's invincibility frames.

 

[MiloniVanili]

Just saying I don't prefer the 123 Jab compared to the multi-hit. They get hit for longer as well since they're pushed to the back of the hitbox. Use the 123 by all means, just saying I would rather use the multi-hit. The multi-hit is also safer to use as it basically confirms a punish, while the 123 lets the roller have a better chance of bypassing your attack because of it's invincibility frames.

the multihit is actually confirms that you get punished because the last hit gets shielded every time

 

[SwoodGrommet]

the multihit is actually confirms that you get punished because the last hit gets shielded every time

No, not if you get out of there quick enough. The multi-hit works fine for me, so I'm sticking to it.

 

[Appdude]

Ok, It's not 100% solid, but after playing dark pit for about 2 weeks now (Literally 1on1 for 2 weeks, JUST dark pit, no one else) And then switching to pit, I have noticed that pit's side B has a TAD bit more range than dark pit's. Please confirm? (Or is it already confirmed?)

 

[LancerStaff]

Ok, It's not 100% solid, but after playing dark pit for about 2 weeks now (Literally 1on1 for 2 weeks, JUST dark pit, no one else) And then switching to pit, I have noticed that pit's side B has a TAD bit more range than dark pit's. Please confirm? (Or is it already confirmed?)

It's the same. I don't exactly have a measurement or anything, but I've been figuring out this weird "critical hit" thing on the Upperdash and had the range down pat.

Long story short about the crits, it's a one-in-a-million shot if the people who've seen it can be trusted. The effect is that there'll be like 2x knockback. A few guys on Miiverse came to me about it, one has a replay but can't post it or anything. Then I remembered somebody here said something about it, so I decided to try to recreate it. All cases I know of have been on lighter characters around 60%, Greninja and Ness specifically. Nothing so far.

 

[ReRaze]

@ LancerStaff So kinda like luigi's side b critical hit or is it even less common?

 

[LancerStaff]

@ LancerStaff So kinda like luigi's side b critical hit or is it even less common?

It appears to be an impossibly uncommon glitch. I have about 40 hours of online Pit/Dark Pit time online, and I haven't had it happen once.

 

[ReRaze]

Aww shucks, but if it's a glitch maybe theres a certain way to make it happen that we don't know of yet.

 

[IzunaDroppuh]

Sometimes it seems like it does more knockback on counter hit (when they are attempting an attack).

 

[MiloniVanili]

No, not if you get out of there quick enough. The multi-hit works fine for me, so I'm sticking to it.

it doesnt matter how fast you end the attack, unless you ONLY hit with the finisher then the last hit will be blocked every time unless your opponent doesnt know what he is doing. the multihit doesnt combo into the finisher ever, its too slow and you get shield grabbed for it

 

[LancerStaff]

it doesnt matter how fast you end the attack, unless you ONLY hit with the finisher then the last hit will be blocked every time unless your opponent doesnt know what he is doing. the multihit doesnt combo into the finisher ever, its too slow and you get shield grabbed for it

It depends on when the opponent gets hit by the infinite jab. Hitting with the starting two hits typically puts too much space in between you and the opponent to work. But if they roll into it and you stop quick enough it'll work properly.

 

[CHOMPY]

Pivot ftilt and fsmashes are Pits best friend when it comes to trying to anticipate your opponents rolls, or if you are baiting for them to airdodge upon landing.

Pivot grabs are very useful against players that love to spot dodges and roll, espcially when Pits grab range is so short in the first place. The only time I do a run dash grab is when my opponent will think I'll throw out an attack. Again if they are landing, thats when i'll grab them instead of performing an uair, or usmash..

Infinite jab is the worst thing you can do with Pit. Sure, it deals more damage when your opponent isn't quick enough to react to the 3rd jab. But what happens if they escape, while your still in your infite jab combination? Not only can they DI away from it, but they can simply roll away and punish you with a fsmash, or ftilt. Instead, I simply perform a 3-hit jab combo, or sometimes I do a 2-hit jab to a grab to really throw off my opponents reaction.

Can anyone confirm as too whether or not utilt has more or less range than usmash?

I still don't quite understand what the benefit ref using the dtilt, when the ftilt can cover so much range?

 

[MiloniVanili]

Pivot ftilt and fsmashes are Pits best friend when it comes to trying to anticipate your opponents rolls, or if you are baiting for them to airdodge upon landing.

Pivot grabs are very useful against players that love to spot dodges and roll, espcially when Pits grab range is so short in the first place. The only time I do a run dash grab is when my opponent will think I'll throw out an attack. Again if they are landing, thats when i'll grab them instead of performing an uair, or usmash..

Infinite jab is the worst thing you can do with Pit. Sure, it deals more damage when your opponent isn't quick enough to react to the 3rd jab. But what happens if they escape, while your still in your infite jab combination? Not only can they DI away from it, but they can simply roll away and punish you with a fsmash, or ftilt. Instead, I simply perform a 3-hit jab combo, or sometimes I do a 2-hit jab to a grab to really throw off my opponents reaction.

Can anyone confirm as too whether or not utilt has more or less range than usmash?

I still don't quite understand what the benefit ref using the dtilt, when the ftilt can cover so much range?

im 95% sure the u tilt has less upwards range, im not sure about in front of him.

D tilt is one of his better moves. comes out faster and ends faster than F tilt and it knocks them up for a potential follow up

 

[CHOMPY]

It would be cool if someone can document the actual hitbox range, so we can a better idea on where it hits the player.