UChicago Thread -- P:M Tournament on 4/20!

[onionchowder]

There's a decent smash community at UChicago, but ever since the big Facebook migration, most communication happens over here. We often have smashfests, so check there.

Also we have a Youtube channel with tourney + misc. vids. We're okay. uChiCon and No Rules II are our most recent tournaments. We'll probably have one during spring quarter.




==== Ladder ====
UChicago has a lot of up-and-coming Melee players, but they don't play each other often. The recent DGH - North Campus and DGH - Wick crew battles have revealed hidden bosses and debunked over-hyped frauds. The salt is real.

The goal of this power ranking / ladder is to provide an aggregate perception of UChi player skill and encourage more inter-house play. We will implement some sort of ladder/challenge system.

The Elite​

1. AJ “Goose”
2. Eric “onionchowder”
   
   The Challengers
3. JWu “JWu”
4. Gustavo
5. Derek “Lil’ D”
6. Zimo “Z”
   
   The Hidden Bosses
7. Charlie "Battlecow"
8. Dan
9. Alex
10. Mike “Mindy”
    
    The Untested
11. Adam “ADAD”
12. Hemanth “He-Man”
13. Geoffery “unexplained bacon”
14. Scott
15. Marty
16. Kaushal
17. Sean

Honorable Mentions (Inactive)

• Nathan
• Ryan
• Burchill
• Seun
• Steve
• Chris K

Panelists:
Eric, Charlie, AJ, Gustavo
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Hhyd1MRcvIBsWOyXUSAXYRdZZyFlkgygIsaWccWMv0k/edit
Inactivity and high variance biased rankings lower. Players who were not ranked by enough panelists were labelled as "Inactive"

 

[onionchowder]

This seemed inappropriate for the Facebook group. The UChi community (discounting Battlecow) has zero activity on Smashboards, but it's a better community hub than Facebook. Pour your salt out here.

The top 5 was extremely robust, but it gets a lot messier down below. I think Alex and Charlie are overrated, while Adam and Hemanth are underrated.

 

[cosmonaut]

Bleh, I feel like it's impossible to create accurate smash power rankings. I'm sure the top 4-5 spots may be accurate, but how do we account for the fact that matchups can make a world of difference? ex: Patrick 2-0'd Mike (#10) during the past UChi tourney, but also lost to Hemanth (#12).

 

[onionchowder]

There's a lot of cyclic matchups in the middle. Dan's Falco (#7) will lose to Battlecow's Peach (#9), but he sometimes takes games off Myself, JWu, Gustavo, and Zimo (#2,3,4,6). Mike (#10) will lose in Marth Dittos to Scott (#14), even though Scott doesn't main Marth. etc.

It's really hard to rank players by theorycrafting, so hopefully the empirics will sort things out.

 

[onmy.]

lololol i'm in my own tier with smoe that's whats up

 

[Battlecow]

Challenge Dan

 

[onionchowder]

Thoughts on AJ v. Me;

AJ has an extremely aggressive and in-your-face style, with extremely hard punishes. AJ is very technical and precise, which allows him to execute his style. AJ's spacing with Shiek is fast and precise. With his aggressive counter-attacking style, AJ is able to steal momentum from his opponent and instantly go on the offensive. AJ's punishment is very consistent, possibly a property of Shiek. There is very little variation in AJ's playstyle between stages or matchups, and his neutral game sticks closely to a few fundamentals which he uses quickly and precisely. AJ certainly adapts to his opponent -- the adjustments he makes are usually small and tactical; (e.g. in UChiCon, WSF and GF, AJ is more patient in his pressure and baits out my rolls in the second set). Moreover, AJ's adaptation is usually made between sets rather than within a set. AJ has difficulty dealing with extremely defensive styles which slow the pace of the game.

My style is reactionary and free-form. I am defensive in the neutral game, using projectiles to great effect. My spacing game is strong because I use a wide variety of options -- I make good use of platforms, wavelands, and light shielding. Unlike AJ, I am not as fast or precise, but I have a greater vocabulary. Under pressure, my defensive reactions are poor; though I have the mechanical ability to perform most defensive maneuvers, I often select the wrong one. This particularly shows when I roll, Usmash/up-B OoS, and DI inwards excessively while under pressure. My punishment game tends to come from defensive reactions and outmaneuvering my opponent -- e.g. in UChiCon GF2, I predict AJ's ledgehop Fairs and actively try to shield -> USmash/Shine OoS. I rarely approach directly; When I do approach, it tends to be one-dimensional and predictable. My punishes tend to be soft, relying on tech-chases or predicting movement for the big punishes; my offensive strength lies in my mix-ups and positioning-based reads. I also often miss "guaranteed" setups; this is apparent in my grab combos with Doc. Because of this, my punishment is very high-variance. I am very adaptive and often vary my playstyle drastically within a set, sometimes within a match. My last stocks tend to be much better-used than my first. My effective shift in playstyle is apparent between UChiCon GF1 and GF2.

Beyond his character, I think AJ's playstyle tends to beat mine. I have the most success against AJ when I can play a safe defensive game while still obtaining good punishment. My reactionary adaptive style also lends better to unfamiliar environments. This is part of why I have far greater character diversity, and why I am a stronger Doubles, P:M, and Smash 64 player than AJ. (Doubles is a weird case because I tend to play "support/tank" and AJ tends to play "DPS"). Assuming that we are of "equal skill level", I think AJ's style is more effective at beating unfamiliar opponents in short engagements, whereas I perform better against familiar opponents in long engagements. This might just stem from me playing Doc, an uncommon character.

To be clear, I am not ascribing a morality to any of this; AJ's less flexible playstyle, "simple" tactics, and proficiency in short sets are not inferior. To the contrary, AJ's competitive success shows that his style is more effective than mine (assuming we are of equal "skill", whatever the hell that means).

 

[SMOE]

Real talk though, I'm totally going to be going even with JWu and ****ting down some throats in less than a year's time. Prepare yourselves, Hidden Bosses.

 

[onionchowder]

We can make up rules for being ranked; e.g. beat 3 players on the list to get on there. Ryan is itching to get his place.

SMOE -- you sound like Sean haha

 

[Battlecow]

Waxin hella poetic here about our skills

In my experience it's always very easy to ignore obvious skill differentials by claiming a "better" style, and claiming an "effective in different situations" style is like marginally better. 'S all about RESULTS. Which you also kinda have cuz goose is a choke artist

 

[onionchowder]

Ladder Rules (Maybe?):

You may challenge a player up to 3 spots above you in the ladder. If the challenger wins, they jump up to the incumbent's spot (and everyone between shifts down 1). Recommended format is Bo3 Bo3 set, but any agreed upon match is acceptable.

Today's Matches (Mar 6, 2014):
Derek > Charlie
Dan < Charlie !
Eric > Justin
Scott > Ryan
Justin > Derek

! = upset

EDIT: Mar 11, changed ladder rules to Charlie's proposal. Makes more sense.

 

[Battlecow]

IMO a better ladder system:

You can challenge 2 (or 3, doesn't matter that much) above you, if you win you take that person's spot, they move down one, and anyone you "jump" also moves down one. So if Marty beats Geoffrey, he becomes 13, geoff becomes 14, scott becomes 15.

That's how 64 ladders work, it's more exciting than power rankings and there's no penalty for losing when you challenge, which means more matches. Something to think about.

Eric--who moves down when someone moves up one spot in your system? The guy they beat or the guy above them?

 

[onionchowder]

WDW tomorrow! I doubt anybody checks this thing before the Facebook group, but I figured it was worth a shot. Still have +1 space in our car.

 

[Battlecow]

Yo gimme that 7 spot son

Also I challenge Gustavo

 

[SillyGoose]

Why doesn't Gustavo have a tag

I recommend MidWestballz

 

[Andross313]

Link to facebook group? I'm ready to open new salty wounds.

 

[onionchowder]

FB: https://www.facebook.com/groups/153809221363953/

I'm going to start calling matches to get this ladder thing going.

Charlie v. Gustavo
Derek v. Zimo
Hemanth v. Alex
Mike v. Dan
Scott v. Geoffery

 

[onionchowder]

P:M Tournament this Sunday! Oro said he'd come.

https://www.facebook.com/events/606393959456280

Will post rules and stuff here soon. Pools & double-elim bracket, slightly modified version of EXP's stage list

 

[onionchowder]

Thoughts on M2K:

He's really good, obviously. A lot of my bread-and-butter stuff worked on him the first 1-3 times, but afterwards he predicted and reacted accordingly. I had close matches when he was sandbagging, but he 4-stocked me once with Shiek. His movement/tech/etc. didn't seem that much faster than me, but his decision-making was quick and his punishments were precise. He was actively predicting my movement at all times; in neutral game, when trying to land on the ground, wherever.

Must autopilot less. Must experiment with punishment options more, play less conservatively in friendlies.