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Underused Characters

Fenii

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 25, 2008
Messages
8
Location
The Netherlands
Lately I found that Bowser is actually pretty good! His strength is obviously very high, which makes him a KO king if you land some nice smashes here and there. Also, his Down+B keep him safely on ground most of the times, making him a fairly hard airial target. His Fire Breath is HUGE and can knock your socks off and has an impressive range. The only downside is his low speed, but if you can work around that, you'll be astounded at Bowser's potential.

Yeah...don't mess with King Koopa! (RAWR :p)
 

Veng

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
818
Location
Olympia, Washington
I dont see ZSS or Zelda much.

I see a few sheiks, falcons, ganons, yoshis...

Oh wait, I havent seen one single bowser other then my friend or when I ask them to play as bowser.
 

Denzi

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
3,483
Location
Cleveland, OH
Isn't it obvious? If everyone did this (used underused chars), then the characters wouldn't be underused anymore :p
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,273
Location
Australia
Captn Falcon and Ganondorf seem to have really x10 slow moves and maybe thats why nobody likes them my guess. I reckon i could never x99 be a pro at them. I just can't use them.
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,321
Location
Tri-state area
Captn Falcon and Ganondorf seem to have really x10 slow moves and maybe thats why nobody likes them my guess. I reckon i could never x99 be a pro at them. I just can't use them.
Guide to using Ganondorf:

1. Jump
2. Uair
3.????
4. Profit

Seriously, Ganondorf's uair is amazing. Granted, there's a great deal more to Ganondorf (like autocanceling uair), but yeah, it's difficult to go wrong with using uair.
 

colored blind

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
398
Location
Purdue/West Lafayette
Guide to using Ganondorf:

1. Jump
2. Uair
3.????
4. Profit

Seriously, Ganondorf's uair is amazing. Granted, there's a great deal more to Ganondorf (like autocanceling uair), but yeah, it's difficult to go wrong with using uair.
Autocancelled Dairs are pretty beastly too.

I vote ZSS and Tlink. I don't see many people who main either well.
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,321
Location
Tri-state area
Lol, you could say the same for Falcon. :laugh:
Oddly enough that's something they have in common. Still, Falcon's uair is not his new knee (melee knee I mean), it's a solid move, but it's not good enough to be the core of his game. He's got an awesome jab though.

Autocancelled Dairs are pretty beastly too.
Auto-canceled dairs are a great punisher and spiker, but Uair beats it by far.

It's a quicker punisher, a spiker, a defensive move (it slices it dices, lol) etc, it's one of the top Uairs in the game, it's incredibly versatile and good at everything it does. If too bad his attributes suck.
 

YagamiLight

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
2,411
Location
California
Dammit, why does PT suck so much?

/off-topic
Because the final result is worth less than the sum of his parts?

Unlike Zelda/Sheik whose overall worth is greater than both Zelda+Sheik. Hard to explain but I'm sure you understand.

/off topic

Anyways most of low tier is underused, but that's due to a very complicated thing: Most of them blow, so there's little reason to use them seriously.
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,321
Location
Tri-state area
Because the final result is worth less than the sum of his parts?

Unlike Zelda/Sheik whose overall worth is greater than both Zelda+Sheik. Hard to explain but I'm sure you understand.

/off topic

Anyways most of low tier is underused, but that's due to a very complicated thing: Most of them blow, so there's little reason to use them seriously.
IMO it's because Zelda/Sheik are useful in different segments of the battle generally, Sheik racks, Zelda kills. PT on the other hand, you need to be able to switch between movesets all the time, because a lot of their functions you need to be able to fall back on at a moments notice to be useful. Really, the best of the bunch is charizard, he can poke, and punish. Plus, he can KO. He's hurt by the fact that he can only be out for two minutes at a time though.

Basically, they're far too interdependent, whereas Sheik/Zelda are not fundamentally interdependent, they're just made better by the option of switching.
 

YagamiLight

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
2,411
Location
California
IMO it's because Zelda/Sheik are useful in different segments of the battle generally, Sheik racks, Zelda kills. PT on the other hand, you need to be able to switch between movesets all the time, because a lot of their functions you need to be able to fall back on at a moments notice to be useful. Really, the best of the bunch is charizard, he can poke, and punish. Plus, he can KO. He's hurt by the fact that he can only be out for two minutes at a time though.

Basically, they're far too interdependent, whereas Sheik/Zelda are not fundamentally interdependent, they're just made better by the option of switching.
I do believe you got it.

Zelda/Sheik allows each of them to shore up their weaknesses when they have to, but they can always remain as they were after dying. If you fail to get a kill with Zelda and die instead, you can simply try again on your next stock. If you fail to get a kill with Charizard, you're going to have to attempt to kill with Squirtle, who kills quite a bit later. You might choose to go to Ivysaur, but then you just gave the enemy a free attack, often a powerful one. The forced switches plus the fact that you need to die and then do two transitions to get back to the person you were lowers effectiveness. Then you have the fact that you need to be on the ground to Pokemon Change and it just is a mess.

Pokemon Trainer doesn't completely suck (Charizard is pretty good!), but sadly his mechanics are in almost every way worse than Zelda/Sheik's and they subtract from the character on the whole. And that's not even mentioning the stupid stamina system that just seems to be put in place to stop PT from being any good. It doesn't favor an aggressive playstyle (Squirtle) since you'll waste your attacks rapidly then be left with someone who can't kill. It doesn't do much for a passive playstyle like Ivysaur's since then you'll be doing minimal damage after about a minute. It sort of goes well if you do both (Charizard) , but even then you have less than 2 minutes to get anything done.
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,321
Location
Tri-state area
I do believe you got it.

Zelda/Sheik allows each of them to shore up their weaknesses when they have to, but they can always remain as they were after dying. If you fail to get a kill with Zelda and die instead, you can simply try again on your next stock. If you fail to get a kill with Charizard, you're going to have to attempt to kill with Squirtle, who kills quite a bit later. You might choose to go to Ivysaur, but then you just gave the enemy a free attack, often a powerful one. The forced switches plus the fact that you need to die and then do two transitions to get back to the person you were lowers effectiveness. Then you have the fact that you need to be on the ground to Pokemon Change and it just is a mess.

Pokemon Trainer doesn't completely suck (Charizard is pretty good!), but sadly his mechanics are in almost every way worse than Zelda/Sheik's and they subtract from the character on the whole. And that's not even mentioning the stupid stamina system that just seems to be put in place to stop PT from being any good. It doesn't favor an aggressive playstyle (Squirtle) since you'll waste your attacks rapidly then be left with someone who can't kill. It doesn't do much for a passive playstyle like Ivysaur's since then you'll be doing minimal damage after about a minute. It sort of goes well if you do both (Charizard) , but even then you have less than 2 minutes to get anything done.
Yeah, that's also part of it, dying is a LOT worse for PT, you can use invincability for one change, but not two.

Also, Changing on the ground is horrible, that's part of why I love Zelda/Sheik, aerial changes are so much safer.

As for the stamina system, my thoughts exactly. I actually wanted to pick up charizard as a secondary, but that, pluswith the change on death mean it's not really possible to play just charizard.




Ahhh, wait, I was supposed to disagree with something in your posts, that's how message boards go right?

OBJECTION! ....I was hoping that I would come up with something to say in the time it took for me to object, I didn't.


Yeah, noticed the Edgeworth avatar, had to make a Phoenix Wright reference, +cool point btw.

10Edgeworths.
 

Brinzy

Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
3,672
Location
Alexandria, VA
NNID
Brinzy
That's the part that pisses me off with PT the most. His ultimate strength can't even be used fully because of so many ****ing flaws. You can't use it in the air, you can't use it when an opponent is nearby, you have to use it to have kill moves worth anything, and you HAVE to use it when you die.

There are so many ways that his down B alone can be improved, and if we even had basic stuff (no forced switching, no fatigue system) he could EASILY be low mid. Could be slightly higher if he could switch in the air and fall like Zelda/Sheik. I mean, hell, Zelda/Sheik have a lot more start-up to their switch, but switching between those two isn't ever a case of me getting hit unless I accidentally hit Down B. This alone would attract so many players.

Now give all three Pokemon better recovery somehow and I could see a high mid tier. They also need a boost to their Dsmashes.... erm, anyway, not to turn this into a "buff PT" thread or anything, but seriously, why is he so ****ed up? I remember Sakurai mentioning on the side in some article about competitive fighting that the Pokemon company "gave him a hard time." This is kinda evident by the fact that Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and PT don't have six costumes like everyone else. PT is understandable, but even he has one more than Pikachu. I don't want to say that a lot of the gimmicky bull**** comes from the Pokemon company, but at the same time, I think Sakurai had the ability to at least see the major flaws in PT when it came to switching.

First thing's first - it's apparent that this game does not pre-load characters. When you beat a 1P mode with Zelda or Sheik, one of the clips shows Sheik falling on Castle Siege and switching to Zelda, Melee style. How I would kill for switching that fast! Alas, it does not truly exist for reasons that we understand. This would lead me to believe that Sakurai would at least take PT's switching to the same level as Zelda/Sheik's switching, but this never happened, and I just can't see why the huge gimmicky crap with PT exists (or Lucario for that matter, which is why I look at the Pokemon company, but I can't completely blame them).

Second, this fatigue system is ********. The fact that each attack makes you tired even faster is also ********, but mainly because giving a Pokemon 2 minutes, forced/unsafe switching, and then penalties to that is too much. 3-4 minutes would make a huge difference in my opinion. So would removing the attack penalties. So would... not having it in at all.

Finally, adum, you don't even get an invincible switch. It won't let you Down B while you're invincible, and once you do, you're vulnerable. They could have EASILY made it like Sheik/Zelda here.

It's just too ********, and it frustrates me to no end when I try to play PT. Bad recoveries and other internal weaknesses are something that I know I have to deal with, but if the one thing that makes me special is so unbelievably horrible that it is ultimately my biggest weakness, then why even bother?

Bleh, no more ranting for now.
 

YagamiLight

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
2,411
Location
California
Yeah, that's also part of it, dying is a LOT worse for PT, you can use invincability for one change, but not two.

Also, Changing on the ground is horrible, that's part of why I love Zelda/Sheik, aerial changes are so much safer.

As for the stamina system, my thoughts exactly. I actually wanted to pick up charizard as a secondary, but that, pluswith the change on death mean it's not really possible to play just charizard.




Ahhh, wait, I was supposed to disagree with something in your posts, that's how message boards go right?

OBJECTION! ....I was hoping that I would come up with something to say in the time it took for me to object, I didn't.


Yeah, noticed the Edgeworth avatar, had to make a Phoenix Wright reference, +cool point btw.

10Edgeworths.
It's not possible to just play two of the Pokemon either, as you're just giving the enemy a free Fsmash since you don't even get invincibility frames like Zelda/Sheik. At a competitive level, you don't want to be handing out free smashes.

And thanks for the avatar compliment.
 

Omit

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
110
Location
Sweden
Sheik. I really wanna main her, but she´s way too hard online : [
 

demodemo

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
711
Location
Mrs.sauga, Canada
but why does the brawl community ignore shiek... shes ridiculous >_>

shiek is extremely different from her melee counterpart, but most definitely high tier and has great matchups against other high and top tiers.
fox on the other hand......
lol

sheik is doomed to middle tier, with but with zelda high tier for sure. lol at sheik being high tier, and her worst matchups are all used competitively (ICs, Metaknight, Game and Watch)

underplayed? you mean underplayed but good. I would say luigi. Captain falcon sucks, but we all play him anyway, i wouldn't say underplayed. Maybe at a competitive level, but he receives much more attention than he deserves.

edit- oh and, pit is not good lol. might as well play marth, better in every way but no arrows.
 

Black_Heretic

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
1,895
Location
Norcal
I think Snake is underused, I NEVER see him when I go to tournies
*fought 10 snake dittos at WCSL*
And Captain Falcon is WAY to OU, EVERYBODY plays him at every tournie I go to
>.>
 

Brinzy

Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
3,672
Location
Alexandria, VA
NNID
Brinzy
Probably because they either 1) love him that much or 2) want to try and pretend that they're so skilled they can beat anyone with CF.
 

Pr0phetic

Dodge the bullets!
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
3,322
Location
Syracuse, NY
The most underused character (especially in NY) is Pokemon Trainer and Zelda. Even at the PnT in Oct., I did not see one out of 168 people.
 

IxxI

Smash Fence
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
2,147
Location
Berkeley, CA
I think Snake is underused, I NEVER see him when I go to tournies
*fought 10 snake dittos at WCSL*
And Captain Falcon is WAY to OU, EVERYBODY plays him at every tournie I go to
>.>
I agree. Snake's popularity has dropped for some reason.
 

SirDumpling

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 23, 2008
Messages
14
Location
In front of my TV/laptop
Underused:
Diddy Kong. Not ONCE have a seen Diddy used a tournament that i've gone too, and i've only seen like, 5 online (and only 1 or 2 being decent)
Also, Snake's popularity does seem to be declining...only 1 at last tournament i played in.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
27,486
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
NNID
RedRyu_Smash
3DS FC
0344-9312-3352
He does have quite a few problems he needs to overcome, most of it being the sucky mechanics.

I have to say Yoshi is horribly underrated as well. His match-ups are almost exclusively neutrals across the board, and his bad ones aren't even that bad with his worst's being against Marth and G&W.
 

Nestec

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 30, 2007
Messages
916
Location
STL
Eh, I'm gonna go out and say that Jiggly if underused. F-air way too good to be overlooked. And <3 her air game.
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,321
Location
Tri-state area
It's not possible to just play two of the Pokemon either, as you're just giving the enemy a free Fsmash since you don't even get invincibility frames like Zelda/Sheik. At a competitive level, you don't want to be handing out free smashes.

And thanks for the avatar compliment.
Pretty much, ah, how much I wish PT was viable, heck even Ganondorf is less unwieldy to use, at least he's consistent.


And np.


lol

sheik is doomed to middle tier, with but with zelda high tier for sure. lol at sheik being high tier, and her worst matchups are all used competitively (ICs, Metaknight, Game and Watch)

underplayed? you mean underplayed but good. I would say luigi. Captain falcon sucks, but we all play him anyway, i wouldn't say underplayed. Maybe at a competitive level, but he receives much more attention than he deserves.

edit- oh and, pit is not good lol. might as well play marth, better in every way but no arrows.
But Zelda/Sheik is better then both.

And is STILL underplayed.
 

peregrine monkey

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
109
In my area (Atlantic Canada) we have ridiculous amounts of Ikes and Lucases.

AND most of them suck. I fought two good Lucases in the history of all my tourneys.

Underused?
PT, Jiggs, Olimar, Mario.

*Lucases, love that word. :chuckle:
 

Traviz

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 6, 2007
Messages
34
Location
San Antonio, TX; college station TX
Just pick your character you think is the coolest. Why base your whole character decision off of who OTHER people think are good characters...makes no sense. I decided i was going to main snake as soon as i found out he was going to be in the game because the metal gear solid series is my favorite, not becuase hes high on the ranking list
 

Shy Guy 86

Smash Ace
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
848
Jiggz, Bowser(I think), IC's, Pit, Fox, Ganon, Yoshi.

I use Fox, Bowser and Ganon for fun though....
 

bobson

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
1,674
For everyone saying you should base your characters off of who you want to use rather than how popular they are, what if the two are related? What if what you want is to play a character that's underused? A lot of people value being unique; if the end result is that they get more enjoyment out of using underused characters, does it really matter that they chose to use them mainly because they were underused?

Also Mario.
 
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