Upcoming Computer Programmer!

[Lecto2007]

Hello guys,
I just wondering if any of you out there have any tips or life experiences or advice to lend to me as im 16 and working towards being a computer programmer. I know alot of programmers are members of this site so it would really mean alot to me if i can just have a few tips or pointers towards hopefully my future career.
Thank you.

 

[the_dannobot]

Sure dude. Do you have any specific questions?
Otherwise, the best advice I can give you is to go to college and get a CS degree.

 

[Lecto2007]

Well i dont have any specific questions as such yet,
Like it would be good just for someone to nusge me into the correct dirrection, at the moment University is my first goal then to get a degree in programming.
At the age of 16 do you think there is anything i can do now to get me started and occupied on the track of programming?

 

[Crimson King]

I started pretty young and got totally burnt out on it. It's a fun track, just not for me.

First, what is your end goal? Since you are 16, I will assume game programming, which IS NOT the same as game design. Essentially, as a programmer, you'll be hired (among others depending on the size of the staff) to work on a technical aspect of a game. Most programmers work on a very concentrated part of the game, rather than the whole project. To get to this level, you will have to do research. Find out what people are doing their games in today and learn those languages. Download some free source codes and tinker with it. The older the game the better to see how things started to go from simple to complex. Eventually, if you hone your chops well enough, you can probably do a few independent side projects, but that takes years.

If game programming is not your final destination, learn as many languages as your can, specifically ones that are not used anymore. My girlfriend's mom is the computer programmer of an entire school district because she is the only KOBOLT (or whatever it is) programmer in the area. Programming is no longer great money either so the days of entry level programmers getting $100,000 a year is long gone. Good luck. If you want more suggestions, feel free to PM me.

 

[Lecto2007]

Thank you for all your help, Game programming will be awesome but obviously im not the only person who wants a job like this so the competition is very fierce.
I will try my best and go as far as i can try to, i really dont know my end goal yet because i havent really got started on too much yet, i might try out JAVA programming just to get me warmed up.

 

[the_dannobot]

Yeah, Java or C# are probably a good place to start. C# is pretty cool because it has XNA, which is a game development API that you can use. It's relatively easy to get something cool going with it, plus there are a bunch of resources and tutorials around the web. Most importantly, the tools are free and really easy to set up

Here's a link to a bunch of videos aimed at the beginning C# and XNA programmer that you might want to check out. They cover everything from setting up all the tools to writing your first programs:
http://www.xnatutorial.com/?page_id=46

 

[AltF4]

Being a programmer isn't that lofty of a job. They're the bottom of the totem pole, as it were. Very expendable to companies. It's kind of like wanting to be a brick layer as a child, it's just not a very highly regarded occupation.

Look into getting a good education and seeing where it can take you. There are much better computer occupations than programmer.

 

[TheFifthMan]

I have a lot of EE/CompE friends, and the worst fear for all of them is getting their jobs outsourced. If you want to become a computer programmer, you'll most likely be competing with someone from India with better qualifications (IIT Bombay beats the living hell out of MIT from what my friends tell me) who is willing to do your job on a lower salary.

 

[Lecto2007]

Being a programmer isn't that lofty of a job. They're the bottom of the totem pole, as it were. Very expendable to companies. It's kind of like wanting to be a brick layer as a child, it's just not a very highly regarded occupation.

Look into getting a good education and seeing where it can take you. There are much better computer occupations than programmer.

I didnt know computer programmers were that low, surely that isnt true.
i thought they get high pay as these days rarely everyone knows how to use and program things on the computer.

 

[Ghost07]

Geez I thought computer programmers made a good amount of money????
Anyways, Hey Lecto I'm a freshman computer science major and the classes
are pretty cool. I can't really answer many of your questions though since I just
started.

 

[Lecto2007]

It dont matter i mean the more fragmented information and tips i can get the more i can piece together, I thought they made a good amount of money to i mean my mums an alien to computers and so many other people so the demand for good Computer guys should be high with good pay right?

 

[Ghost07]

Even if someone decides to be a game designer instead of a programmer, I'm sure you have to learn Java and other languages too so Computer Science would still be your major. I know your first 2 years in college you take computer science classes and your last 2 years is determined by which track you are on
programing, gaming, etc.

 

[Lecto2007]

Yep im gonna try my chances at JAVA for starters then onto gaming programming, just to let you guys know the education ladder here in London is different for that of in America its really different but i appreciate oyur comments or advice wherever your from.

 

[the_dannobot]

Even if someone decides to be a game designer instead of a programmer...

The problem is that those game design jobs are super, super competitive. Everyone wants to be a designer and there aren't a lot of positions available.

I didnt know computer programmers were that low, surely that isnt true.

It totally isn't true, I don't know what that dude is talking about. There aren't any better computer jobs than being a kickass rock&roll computer programmer I'd rather chew off my own leg than go back to doing IT work.

 

[okiyama]

From what I have been told, I myself am not working for a game company.

The true bottom fo the totem pole is Game tester because it doesn't require much training and is very boring and tedious and overall a pretty terrible job.

Playing a game through is fun, playing a level for 100 hours trying to find glitches, not so fun. Also the pay is pretty bad.

 

[Lecto2007]

From what I have been told, I myself am not working for a game company.

The true bottom fo the totem pole is Game tester because it doesn't require much training and is very boring and tedious and overall a pretty terrible job.

Playing a game through is fun, playing a level for 100 hours trying to find glitches, not so fun. Also the pay is pretty bad.

That seems to be true because anyone can do it i mean, its probably a job to use for your last resort right?
I would love to be a computer game programmer but think about it this way, loads of people in the world like computer games but there are hardly any jobs for it i mean you have better chances in my eyes playing in the english premier league.
There are loads of people looking for that job and only so few companies.

 

[Lecto2007]

Sorry to double post but i have heard that most of the big money is in programming games and not just computers, is that true?

 

[Crimson King]

No, it's not true at all anymore.

About 10 years ago, maybe 15, right before the internet boom, people needed programmers - badly. Once we hit that internet boom around the late 90s, early 2000 programmers were making AT LEAST 6 digits for entry level. A few estimates at the time, when I was still a prospective TO computer science, was around $400,000 within 5 years. Not bad at all! Then, the internet bubble burst, and those programmers had to make a living. Most resorted to creating games, hence the influx of small time video games, to keep their chops up. Others went to programming basic stuff, and then others went to teaching on the internet. Since the burst happened, programming languages have really evolved making it easier and easier to become a computer programmer. Case in point: at the age of 12, I could program a complex program after teaching it all to myself. The fact is nowadays kids are learning programming languages like Java, VB, XML, Python, etc. while in school, so anyone really can program.

Honestly, it's not the same money field it used to be. Entry level for a programmer is about $45,000 - $60,000, depending on location, which requires plenty long, tedious hours.

Oh yea, don't double post.

 

[Lecto2007]

So what your basically saying is that Computer programming is mostly where the money's at, although working on a computer game does seem fun.

 

[Crimson King]

So what your basically saying is that Computer programming is mostly where the money's at, although working on a computer game does seem fun.

No, not at all. I said Computer programming is a dying field. There will always been a need for programmers, but it's nothing like it used to be. For example, when I started college 3 years ago, career outlook had me estimated at making $100,000 a year entry level with a job almost anywhere. Now, people are just outsourcing for MUCH cheaper and for much better experience.

If you are looking to make a lot of money, prepare to be at it for years on end.

 

[leviathan_]

You can look towards Computer Engineering, hardware is in demand right now more so than software. Software (programming) is quickly getting outsourced by foreign labor (esp. China and India). Those guys are willing to work for MUCH less than any Western country, thus salaries fall lower and lower and lower.

 

[the_dannobot]

If you are looking to make a lot of money, prepare to be at it for years on end.

lol, that's like every job ever, not just computer programming. but yeah, if you're only interested in makin money, go into a medical field, that's where the sure bet is gonna be.

There'll always be programming jobs though. Especially since the whole software industry is moving towards agile methods like scrum and sprint that emphasize communication, customers want in-house or local shops. You just can't get enough face time with outsourced shops. You can't even get Indians on a teleconference, because they are twelve hours ahead.

 

[Goldberg]

Yay!, Mexico is a haven for nearshore outsourcing, just look up Softtek on Google, just a few more years of school...

Lecto2007, my advice as a novice programmer myself is to start by learning basic C, you can get the editor and compiler on the free programs thread, it doesn't matter if someone tells you "Oh JAVA is the ****, you can do anything with it", it all comes from C, if you can make a good program on that language you will have an easier time translating it to C++/JAVA.

On the money issue there's this thing, anyone can do anything, yet there's only one BEST for each aspect and you can't be the best at two, once you start a carreer on CS (or CSEngineering) you find how the good programmers tend to stand out fast against those who underestimate what programming involves.

Apparently if you can program a HUGE database on Oracle, you own on programming (thus you receive big $$$).

Try getting started on algorythmic solving of problems, how would YOU solve them?, if you come up with a fast, simple approach, you might be a natural programmer.

 

[Lecto2007]

Yay!, Mexico is a haven for nearshore outsourcing, just look up Softtek on Google, just a few more years of school...

Lecto2007, my advice as a novice programmer myself is to start by learning basic C, you can get the editor and compiler on the free programs thread, it doesn't matter if someone tells you "Oh JAVA is the ****, you can do anything with it", it all comes from C, if you can make a good program on that language you will have an easier time translating it to C++/JAVA.

On the money issue there's this thing, anyone can do anything, yet there's only one BEST for each aspect and you can't be the best at two, once you start a carreer on CS (or CSEngineering) you find how the good programmers tend to stand out fast against those who underestimate what programming involves.

Apparently if you can program a HUGE database on Oracle, you own on programming (thus you receive big $$$).

Try getting started on algorythmic solving of problems, how would YOU solve them?, if you come up with a fast, simple approach, you might be a natural programmer.

Thank you dude, thats really good advice, i'll start cracking towards it.

 

[BlackFoxPariah]

I thought the same thing until I was able to get into a Visual Basic class in my high school. Now I am almost done with it in a full year class and I can say that I really don't like it. I'm sure it gets more interesting later, because the basics are awful. It just isn't for me at all. I don't know about any other languages but VB is not for me.

 

[Lecto2007]

I thought the same thing until I was able to get into a Visual Basic class in my high school. Now I am almost done with it in a full year class and I can say that I really don't like it. I'm sure it gets more interesting later, because the basics are awful. It just isn't for me at all. I don't know about any other languages but VB is not for me.

Hmm.... well thats how it is with most courses but when you pass it and look back you'll be proud of yourself.

 

[Velox]

www.hpcodewars.org

I you can do all of these problems, then you could consider youself good. I think these are a great test too all programmers. Course it's only a test of really educational programatic principles. Won't really test you on efficientcy, big 'O' notation, anything hardware, networking, etc. So it doesn't really fit the bill to get real good at this stuff if you're just "doing" computer science. But if you're serious about "programming", these are awesome. In fact, solving the "Frog Puzzle" my senior year in high school was the most fullfilling thing I really think I did back in high school computer science.

 

[Lecto2007]

Ah, Noway man thats just too hard atm lool.

 

[DOWSER]

If you want to program computer games you should start now. You should practice and review code. The more you know, the better you will be prepared for university. I would imagine being a computer game programmer would be difficult because computer game piracy is so high. If you like games, maybe you should consider being a programmer for console video games.

 

[TheDownSyndromeKid]

My advice to you for game development, learn C++/DirectX/OpenGL.

Make a few small games, most gaming companies like to see a portfolio of at least 3 games before considering you because it's a highly competitive field as others have stated.

Although at 16, it'd be unlikely, but the sooner you get 1 published game under your belt, no matter how good or bad it is, the better off you'll be - because that exemplifies that you've taken part in/seen the whole cycle of planning - design - development - publish - distro.

Another thing is that when you are in school, try to assume leadership positions. The ability to manage is incredibly valuable among programming staff. It makes you much less expendable than that code monkey guy next door.

 

[Lecto2007]

^Why thank you....your very helpful.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I'm not sure where you people are getting your facts, but my college professor just handed out a few statistics sheets showing that computer programming is in high demand right now. If you have a CS degree, average entry level position is $62,000. The demand is much higher than the number of graduates. The Internet boom is coming back as new technologies dot the web and make it more useful to a variety of users.

 

[AltF4]

Yea, I know plenty of people taking positions right out of their BS degree making $55k or more.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Also, as far as advice goes, never underestimate the power of formal training. I know many people who claim to know tons of languages, but it usually turns out that they cannot use them well at all. Learning syntax is only half the battle. Learning about efficiency, data structures, algorithms, design patterns, etc. is the other half.

While HTML is not a "programming language", it is still my favorite example to use here. HTML and CSS have very simple/limited syntax, so it's easy to believe one has mastered it in a short time. However, I view people's pages and code and see horrible design. Truly knowing a language vs simply "knowing how to use it" is what gets you a job. Go to school. You will learn stuff that will aid you tremendously.

 

[Velox]

To "truly" learn it you need to do it competitively. It's no different than smash.

 

[Overload]

I will recommend to you a book I bought called game programming for teens second edition by maneesh sethi. here is the link http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Teens-Second-Maneesh-Sethi/dp/1592008348.
they also have it at barnes&noble for 30 bucks

 

[Leech]

I was also thinking into game programming, so thank you guys for the comments.