Dizenn
Smash Rookie
Hey! It's been almost 2 years since the last MU chart I made and I decided that I'd make another one, based off of my current experience, other players' opinions and the current meta of Smash Ultimate. With that said, it's quite difficult trying to make one of these that feels objective. For example, on paper, and based off of other players' opinions, Cloud does great against K. Rool, but personally, I almost always lose to him (K. Rool mains hmu for sparring pls). Additionally, my personal experience is primarily online based, and the online environment and meta is very good for Cloud.
Once again, I'm looking for feedback and opinions on this MU chart. I'd love to have discussions about different characters MU's so that we can all grow a better understanding of the game. Additionally, I'm always down for sparring or testing matchups so let me know!
General notes:
Cloud is extremely mobile, has solid kill power, great damage, great edge guarding options (although risky) and a great neutral game. With this said, Cloud excels in fights against floatier characters like Kirby, Jigglypuff, Yoshi and Peach/Daisy, as he can find easy U-Air juggles, and U-smash kills. His sword offers him good reach allowing him to out-footsie and win air-to-air situations against many characters who are "brawler" archetypes like Mario or Luigi. His large hitboxes easily find their mark on large characters allowing moves like cross-slash to land easily and rack up big damage or kill. Cloud can avoid projectiles with his mobility, blade beam, and charging limit to out-camp and projectile campers. Characters aiming to pressure shield will be met with swift Up-Special OoS, which is one reason why he has a good MU against Fox.
His weakness is obviously his recovery, lack of good grab options and lack of reliable combos. The recovery is really his greatest issue by far, Cloud players need to have a good understanding of all of his recovery options to be able to return to stage safely. Because of how dangerous it is for Cloud to be off-stage, Cloud players will place an extremely high value over controlling center stage, which a good player will understand and read off of. As favorable as the match-up chart may look, every single character has the potential to demolish Cloud, because of his poor recovery. DK can outright kill Cloud off of a cargo throw off-stage at ~40%. When Cloud starts to lose control of the stage and is forced to make recovery attempts over and over is when things start looking bad for him. Play styles that involve heavy shielding are usually effective against Cloud, because Cloud never really "wants" grabs since all his grab options offer him so little compared to his other options. Cloud players only grab for the sake of mixing-up or for stage control.
Character Specific Notes:
Due to a lack of experience playing against certain character's their placement is based off of theory more than experience, so their placement may be ill-informed. The following characters who this affects are: Toon Link, Meta Knight, Duck Hunt, Rosalina and Luma, Olimar, Sheik and the Miis
Zero Suit Samus:
Tier lists by Sparg0 have ZSS as a very favorable, winning match-up for Cloud. I personally struggle to see this and am very curious as to what some of you think about this.
Min-Min:
This matchup feels hoooorrible for Cloud, as soon as he loses neutral once, it feels like control of stage is entirely forfeited and possibly your stock. I'm not completely certain if this is just me not knowing how to play against min-min successfully or if this matchup is really this bad.
Bowser:
On paper, Cloud should do decently here, but he doesn't. I have to play so out of my mind whenever I play a Bowser, its ridiculous, and other Cloud players seem to agree, so whats up with this?
K. Rool:
Help.
Once again, I'm looking for feedback and opinions on this MU chart. I'd love to have discussions about different characters MU's so that we can all grow a better understanding of the game. Additionally, I'm always down for sparring or testing matchups so let me know!
General notes:
Cloud is extremely mobile, has solid kill power, great damage, great edge guarding options (although risky) and a great neutral game. With this said, Cloud excels in fights against floatier characters like Kirby, Jigglypuff, Yoshi and Peach/Daisy, as he can find easy U-Air juggles, and U-smash kills. His sword offers him good reach allowing him to out-footsie and win air-to-air situations against many characters who are "brawler" archetypes like Mario or Luigi. His large hitboxes easily find their mark on large characters allowing moves like cross-slash to land easily and rack up big damage or kill. Cloud can avoid projectiles with his mobility, blade beam, and charging limit to out-camp and projectile campers. Characters aiming to pressure shield will be met with swift Up-Special OoS, which is one reason why he has a good MU against Fox.
His weakness is obviously his recovery, lack of good grab options and lack of reliable combos. The recovery is really his greatest issue by far, Cloud players need to have a good understanding of all of his recovery options to be able to return to stage safely. Because of how dangerous it is for Cloud to be off-stage, Cloud players will place an extremely high value over controlling center stage, which a good player will understand and read off of. As favorable as the match-up chart may look, every single character has the potential to demolish Cloud, because of his poor recovery. DK can outright kill Cloud off of a cargo throw off-stage at ~40%. When Cloud starts to lose control of the stage and is forced to make recovery attempts over and over is when things start looking bad for him. Play styles that involve heavy shielding are usually effective against Cloud, because Cloud never really "wants" grabs since all his grab options offer him so little compared to his other options. Cloud players only grab for the sake of mixing-up or for stage control.
Character Specific Notes:
Due to a lack of experience playing against certain character's their placement is based off of theory more than experience, so their placement may be ill-informed. The following characters who this affects are: Toon Link, Meta Knight, Duck Hunt, Rosalina and Luma, Olimar, Sheik and the Miis
Zero Suit Samus:
Tier lists by Sparg0 have ZSS as a very favorable, winning match-up for Cloud. I personally struggle to see this and am very curious as to what some of you think about this.
Min-Min:
This matchup feels hoooorrible for Cloud, as soon as he loses neutral once, it feels like control of stage is entirely forfeited and possibly your stock. I'm not completely certain if this is just me not knowing how to play against min-min successfully or if this matchup is really this bad.
Bowser:
On paper, Cloud should do decently here, but he doesn't. I have to play so out of my mind whenever I play a Bowser, its ridiculous, and other Cloud players seem to agree, so whats up with this?
K. Rool:
Help.