Useful tips and tricks against Marths

[bassem6]

Ahhhh marth. Wario's greatest enemy (in my opinion)t. I have been having trouble beating marth (as Im sure some of you have too) so I decided to make a thread in which we could discuss the best ways to approach/defeat marth users. Heres what I got so far:

1) The dash cancelled up-smash is good for catching marth off guard or sliding under him when hes jumping around spamming fairs.

2) If the marth is not very aggressive, summon the bike and either toss it at him if he charges at you or destroy it and bounce the tires in front of and/or behind him to make for a useful projectile.

3)The best time to use the fart on him is when you have just edgehogged and he has landed on the stage with his up-b( one of his attacks with the greatest afterlag).

4) Chase him when he's off the stage with a series of f-airs in an attempt to WOP him.

5) Frigate orpheon is a good counterpick.( see deff's match)

Thats all I got right now so it would be great if any of you guys could add to this

 

[Mista Sinista]

4) Chase him when he's off the stage with a series of f-airs in an attempt to WOP him.

Depending on Marth's damage, you can fair, fair, double-jump, fair then motorcycle jump back to the stage for a KO.

The dash-cancelled usmash is definitely a good approach, I agree, I use this against most long-ranged opponents whenever I can to get in and do damage.

The trick to Marth is that once you get close, you CAN NOT let him breathe. Dthrow-> fsmash, whatever, just make sure you wreck him and do it as fast as you can. Dair -> usmash->uair works wonders too.

 

[PhantomX]

I'm of the opinion that Marth v Wario is actually in Wario's favor... too tired to elaborate more... if you're lucky, sHell will do it (as he agrees w/ me) XD

 

[bassem6]

woooaaaahhh phantom, thats the first time I have ever heard of marth vs wario being in favor of wario. From all of the matches I have played marths and meta-knights have always given me the MOST trouble. I can not imagine that with marth's disjointed hitbox and aerial maneuverability with the fair that he would be at a disadvantage against wario.

Maybe if your feeling more energetic, you would care to elaborate?

 

[Doctor Destructo]

It's more like a good Wario will have an easier time against a good Marth, as a good Wario knows how to make up for his shortcomings by playing a patient punish game and grabbing opportunities. Look at a lot of Wario/Marth tournament videos, you'll find that Wario wins them more often than not.

 

[Aiko]

Fsmash out of shield is great if marth doesn't space properly. Also gimping marth is essential as is edgehogging just before he up B's.

 

[Warlock*G]

It's more like a good Wario will have an easier time against a good Marth, as a good Wario knows how to make up for his shortcomings by playing a patient punish game and grabbing opportunities. Look at a lot of Wario/Marth tournament videos, you'll find that Wario wins them more often than not.

So true, so true. Wario wins like 60% of the time. Video topic in my sig. Tier gas!

Edit: oh, and do as I do: play as Marth, as it's the best way to understand him. For instance, he's my 2nd main and I now know some of the things that Marth can and can't do in given situations. Oh, and Marth is fun to play. Why do you think lots of people use him?

 

[Lucrece]

So true, so true. Wario wins like 60% of the time. Video topic in my sig. Tier gas!

Edit: oh, and do as I do: play as Marth, as it's the best way to understand him. For instance, he's my 2nd main and I now know some of the things that Marth can and can't do in given situations. Oh, and Marth is fun to play. Why do you think lots of people use him?

He's far from fun. Slash, slash, slash, a couple more slashes from a blade dance; rinse and repeat.

*Yawn*

The only sword-user I find fun is Link, but that may be due to the variety of his arsenal.

 

[Warlock*G]

He's far from fun. Slash, slash, slash, a couple more slashes from a blade dance; rinse and repeat.

*Yawn*

The only sword-user I find fun is Link, but that may be due to the variety of his arsenal.

Well, I find Link to be boring as hell. To each his own I guess.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

I find it easy to go against marths, its probably my best matchup.

 

[bassem6]

Hmm maybe im just playing a really good marth(allyornotally). Because it seems like for EVERYTHING I try to do he punishes me for it. Examples:

I try to fair him and land out of his grab range. He shields then uses the blade dance to make up for the distance.

I try to f-smash him out of shield, he blocks, gets pushed back a bit, but is able to f-smash me because marths range.

I try to bite him when hes shielding he takes one step back and either dancing blade or f-smashes me.

And trust me, Im not losing because I lack skill, I usually don't have trouble playing against marths, but this guy's marth is just insane.I'll try to get some vids of us playing soon so you can see what im talking about.

 

[Doctor Destructo]

Hmm maybe im just playing a really good marth(allyornotally). Because it seems like for EVERYTHING I try to do he punishes me for it. Examples:

I try to fair him and land out of his grab range. He shields then uses the blade dance to make up for the distance.

I try to f-smash him out of shield, he blocks, gets pushed back a bit, but is able to f-smash me because marths range.

I try to bite him when hes shielding he takes one step back and either dancing blade or f-smashes me.

And trust me, Im not losing because I lack skill, I usually don't have trouble playing against marths, but this guy's marth is just insane.I'll try to get some vids of us playing soon so you can see what im talking about.

By the sound of it, it looks like he's just reading you really well, or maybe he has a lot of Wario experience. You should get some more practice with him, as he'll be a good example of what's the come after people stop underestimating Wario.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

I mainly just stay in my shield for the match. Powershielding helps greatly since there isn't any lag. One more thing: AIRDODGE!AIRDODGE!AIRDODGE! It's too good vs marth.

 

[Ace55]

Oh, and Marth is fun to play. Why do you think lots of people use him?

Come on man, I know you like Marth and all but this is like blasphemy.

*Must... resist... urge... to.. say... bad... things.. about.. Marth...*

 

[PhantomX]

I mainly just stay in my shield for the match. Powershielding helps greatly since there isn't any lag. One more thing: AIRDODGE!AIRDODGE!AIRDODGE! It's too good vs marth.

This pretty much sums up the game vs most sword users. If you can airdodge that second forward air of marth's it's pretty easy to punish w/ a fsmash. Also, if they start playing defensively or spotdoding, holding bite will really start to mess w/ their head... don't forgot you can actually gimp Link and Marth w/ neutral airs. IMO, MK is one of the hardest sword wiedlers (mostly b/c of the tornado and his huge recovery), followed by Toon Link. Pit has never really been all that much trouble for me... I guess he lacks early killing moves.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

If you fsmash, you should lead in with a fair or two to gimp him. Marth's recovery is not safe at a far distance, and wario players should always capitalize on gimping. His recovery sends him straight up, meaning if he gets hit by most of Wario's aerials he isn't making it back. Nair is good but I find fair more flexible in certain places.

 

[S.P.I.C. TOM]

Alot of biting and grabbing in my opinion because if you can avoid using your F-smash,U-air,and F-tilt you could probably get rid of him quick because you are saving his best moves for when they will be needed. I think the fart after getting rid of one stock should get rid of him faster assuming that you don't gimp him in 2 seconds.

 

[Purenchisu]

i just d air the hell out of him

 

[AllyKnight]

Here, 1 of the video you wanted Bassem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_9YDqgAU3Y

 

[harpuia190]

i would say wario isn't necessarily bad against marth, just it's easy to get overwhelmed by marth

 

[HolySerpent]

After watching that match here are some tips.
You use double jump to aerial too much.
Also if you notice the marth is outspacing you the entire match.
When fighting marths you have to be more passive not aggressive. Stay calm shield, air dodge, and pop in during attacks.
Also you need to short hop more. and your approach needs work I suggest Dair as it is the safest way for Wario to approach most enemies. Mostly you just need to work on your mindgames and stop being so predictable.

Honestly the marth was pretty bad and had he picked another character you probably would have beaten him.

 

[PhantomX]

Hoo, boy, Bass... you got a lot of work ahead of you if you wanna become a good Wario >_>

Yo, are you on the doubles team Burnt Lobstaz on GB? o_O Someone there is called bassem, and they play Wario... add me to AIM or something (search for Spontaneous Combustion) and we'll see if we can't arrange ourselves a little challenge

 

[bassem6]

That was one of my badder matches and I had already played ally a bunch before that so he knew most of my tricks with wario. I am however, working on being more unpredictable. And yes phantom, I am on that team. We're ranked 34th now and having trouble finding matches... I'll add you on AIM and see if we can battle tomorrow maybe.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

i would say wario isn't necessarily bad against marth, just it's easy to get overwhelmed by marth

QFT. If Wario gets too offensive fair can shoot down Wario's approaches. I hate chomping Marths for the same reason (fair) Although its very possible to get, I usually need to DI away from Marth's _air and DI in to chomp.

 

[W-man]

You mustn't SH F-air to bite cause F-air has a little lag. Why haven't you used N-air plus bite ? N-air has no landing lag. And I add Wario can successfully gimp Marth's recovery with B-air.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

Fair Nair and Bair all gimp Marth, his recovery isn't that great if he's too far away from the ledge.

 

[LibertyD]

Gimping is possibly the worst thing you can do to a Marth. His recovery has gotten better, but not much to save him from fairs from Wario when he's trying. Just try to keep aware of Marth's fair when he's recovering as well, as he could end up just hurting you AND recovering. And if he knows your planning to gimp him, he could stage spike you with dolphin slash, either taking you down with him or recovering.

Smart Marth players know better about Wario's range and will try to take advantage of it. If Wario air dodges/spot dodges or shields during his fair sessions, you may be able to catch Marth a few times unexpected(Of course, if they're spacing correctly, it's hard to punish them anyhow). If they do catch on, they will start to follow up with sword dance, instead of their 2nd fair, catching YOU off gaurd or just ****** your shield anyways. If you did shield after a sword dance, get prepared to get a shield breaker in your face when they hop in the air. It may seem like they're going to fair again or such but smart players will know that their shield is nearly gone and will take advatage of that. They may just be unexpected and do it after a few fairs, just to be unexpected.

I have no real idea as how a Wario can actually counter a Marth, because I don't main him, but these are things I'm aware of to play against Wario. I am interested in how to play Wario cuz he's just insane like that, but the way I see it, Wario seems kind of outmatched by Marth., mostly due to his range. But once your inside Marth's sword range, you have a incredible advatage. Take it and abuse Marth with your aerials inside as much as you can, than try to finish the job with a f-smash, with a little gimping if needed. Also if you are inside Marth's sword range, he will tend to try to either hop away fairing, shield/roll, or sword dance. As soon as you begin to pressure him, he'll most likley try to push you away or retreat so you fast attacks.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

Its kind of obvious you should be careful once he's near the edge for gimping, but its definitely not THE worst thing to do. Just because Marth's B-up is fast and snaps on to the stage well doesn't mean its better, he had alot more protection in Melee due to it being alot less floaty. Fair is a poor option for brawl Marth (imo) when recovering compared to Fairing in between Sword dance recoveries in melee. Stage spiking does seem scary, but you could always just learn how to walltech and you'd be fine for the most part.

Wario is just about even with Marth, Marth controls the match better but that doesn't mean Wario doesn't have a chance. Wario is arguably one of the best people to choose against Marth, if not the closest thing to a counter. I agree with the other two paragraphs though. Nice for a first post.

 

[LibertyD]

Haha you noticed that was my first post lol. I was just poking around Wario threads hoping to try him for my secondary lol. Thank you .

I never actually played a good Wario, (except maybe 1) so I fail to see how he is actually a counter to Marth. It's true that he's less protected after his B-up, but usually Marth's only do this to grab the edges only, so I gues another weak point is edge hogging. Marth's usually only do this out of the shield or just recovery, except maybe sometimes just out of the blue to KO someone really early while they're in the air mostly.

If a Wario comes in at aerials at Marth, he's obviously outranged, but once Wario jumps in range, shielding after Wario's aerial than a B-up will knock him away a bit, and depending on the dmg he has, even KO him.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

Yeah, you have the right idea about getting in Marth's range. B-up oos from Marth is something to watch out for, it is just as effective as Wario's Dair oos. It's interesting to see the matchup from the other side. :] Your welcome by the way.

 

[bassem6]

Thanks for the insight liberty. If you want to have some practice matches against a decent wario, I'll add you and IM you on AIM and we can spar sometime!(At least I think Im a decent wario xD )

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

I hope you have gotten better since that video :/ If not you could really use some improvement to get to be a decent Wario, just saying.

 

[PhantomX]

Lol, he's gotten a lot better than how he played in that video... I just dittoed him the other day (online, but still) and they were pretty epic fights... that was just a horrid, HORRID video, haha.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

Oh, cool then. Nice to see you are improving!! Wario4life

 

[bassem6]

Deff, we should ditto sometime as well. I played blue shell today and it was a VERY close mach(he barely beat me).

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

I'm not a really big fan of online, although I still play anyways so whenever I have some free time I'll pm you.

 

[Flatfeet]

I had some real trouble with a Marth at a tournament today. I'm definitely not incredibly skilled with Wario, but I held my own and managed an overall second. I had trouble with his fairs, and ended up forgetting my waft at the final stock where he threw my bike over the edge at me.

 

[Ryan-K]

Marth is annoying lol.

Even though it doesn't prove much I had matches with some locals online who place well in tourney with diff characters.

I found that if you are in your shield, dancing blade and jab stop any jump attempts you try should you land. Fair is also extremely annoying since marth has good air movement and it covers a large arc in front and above him.

The bike is good to use when he tries to fair camp you since it gets you close if they avoid it and if they try another aerial it will usually hit them.

The annoying part about marth though is how ridiculous he is at killing. A majority of his moves are great killers and his dancing blade means he doesnt have to worry about stale moves since it recovers about half of the queue.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Marth has the advantage. Wario's aerial mobility isn't as overwhelming, since Marth's is pretty good and he has range out the ***. Wario's biggest issue is lack of range, as we're all aware.

Luckily, Marth doesn't have a wide variety of tactics to abuse. Then again, he didn't in Melee either, and he was still a serious pain to fight, heh...

Generally, DI away from him when he hits you (obviously not when you're at high percentages). You don't want to get caught in any funky aerial comboes, or get hit by the dreaded tipper F-Smash.

Watch for his F-Airs and his Forward-B attacks (I'm sure everyone knows this, but for it's own sake...); they're realistically a majority of his game. All of his aerials have killing potential now, so you can't safely approach an idle Marth in the air. If you can, sneak by with a powershield or an air-dodge. Catch him off-guard with something and keep the pressure.

Make him whiff a slash after hitting him with standard Wario combo fare so you can keep it going easily. It'll fluster a lot of players, too.

Footstooling is not to be underestimated as Wario, as well. If he's a fair distance away from the edge, that might be enough to grab the edge and hog it as he Up-B's. I don't see enough footstooling; I think with Wario's aerial maneuverability, it's a cinch, and sometimes a free stock (especially against characters like Bowser). Try inserting it in your game. If anything, it messes up peoples' sweetspots, so you can often get a free Waft out of it.