Vegetarianism

[SuperBowser]

Numbers don't lie. Vegetarians tend to be more deficient than non-vegetarians, on average. Also, you say "vegetarian diet" but keep in mind this is a huge, all-encompassing term. That still leaves a lot of room for creativity and choice in food. Some vegetarian diets do provide what you need. Others don't. On average, they don't provide everything in sufficient amounts.

Well it seems like iron deficiency anaemia is more common in vegetarians. But, this is from a poor diet and can be quite easily fixed without eating meat.

Still, my original reply was to someone who stated that vegetarians are inherently deficient because of their diet. My original reply is still true and the analogy I gave earlier is still true. What you say is true, but it has no relevance to my original statement. It is 100% false for someone to say that vegetarians are somehow inherently deficient (this is not what you stated but this is what i was replying to).

 

[MisterDrBob]

Recently I considered becoming a fruititarian. If you're wondering how that's different from vegetarianism, the diet is fruit, nuts, and wheat. No vegetables. But I like meat too much. It tastes good, and eating it seems perfectly natural to me. The quote in the first post about us wronging ourselves by imitating animals is just plain silly. There are animals that eat meat, animals that eat only plants, and animals that eat both. Really, what's left? We kind of have to imitate animals one way or another if you want to look at it like that.
I agree that the meat industry itself needs some stepping up in terms of health and humane concerns though.

 

[jugfingers]

People would argue to say that "it's just an animal" so it doesn't really matter.
This is shown by how even the workers treat the cows.

I've already stated that the way that they kill the cows is hardly humane.
The meat industry needs to make a better way to do the job, not so agonizing for the cow.
It should be quick and painless.
Not agonizing and drawn out.

That's just terrible.



Nature is the same.
Predators eat prey
Humans are no different

Only that we've become sophisticated enough that you aren't gonna see people eat a pig alive.
It should be killed in a humane manner where it's not needlessly suffering for absolutely no reason at all.
How they kill these livestock is what should be changed.




Except you're using humans in place of animals.

People as a whole value a human life over that of an animals.

Why else do you believe the news doesn't cover the death of a dog?
They cover the death of a human because that gets audience views.

Dogs are seen as man's best friend, but people will still see the death of a human as much, much more important.
Because an animal has little to represent.
They have no aspiring dreams, deep intellectual thought, fully developed emotions or roles in society.

Humans do

I'm not being void of emotion
I sincerely feel that the manner by which they kill livestock is wrong as it brings about unnecessary suffering for a living being.

But I see the reality of the situation where I cannot be faulted by how my steak came to be.
If I choose not to eat meat anymore, that hardly keeps cows and pigs from being slaughtered.
Sure, it may save "x" amount of cows in the long run, but they will still meet their fate which is being slaughtered.
Something that cannot and will not be changed when the consumption of meat is so heavily strong around the entire world.

Being vegetarian may drop the amount of cows slaughtered, but it will not not keep them from eventually being slaughtered so the family of four can have their BBQ picnic at the local park.

Saying otherwise is denial.

Idealy, a vegetarian may want a world that is void of killing for meat seems great.
But I personally see it on par with solving world hunger.

Nothing more than a pipe dream that may never be accomplished.


Realistcally, people get what they want.
When alcohol was banned, people fought for it back.
Now it continues to kill countless of lives everyday just because people wanted their poison sludge back to get drunk and please their addiction.

I despise it, but I know that reality will keep alcohol readily available for the masses.
As will reality continue to keep cows being slaughtered for their meat for the masses and reality will prevent world hunger from being solved.

People want their sludge crap
People want their meat
People want to keep their greedy bellies full

That is the reality behind it.

animals have brains,lungs, hearts, livers,kidneys, nervous systems, their brains produce the same hormones, the same neurotransmitters, they feel, fear,pain,compassion,love just like humans. they love and nuzzle their young, the run in fear from predators, they scream in agony as their chopped apart by giant spinning saws.

there are primates that know though thousands of english words, and communciate effectively with humans, who demonstrate all the same emotions as humans.

I mean its one thing to brutally murder animals and eat them, and its another thing to brutally murder animals and pretend that they don't care either way, that every fibre in there body isn't saturated with fear when they have there throats ripped out and are hanging upside down feeling there organs and vital fluid draining from there partially detached head.

at least realize that your causing unimaginable pain by supporting the cattle industry
and it is your choice that it is worth it to cause this pain and suffering so that you can eat their flesh, to satisfy your own desire

your assertion that we cannot change the world because people are greedy fools and will do whatever they want is not an accurate reflection of the intellectual capacity of humans.
if people understood the suffering they were causing fully they would stop.

it is simply a lack of awareness.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[Tomacawk]

rofl at somebody quoting the bible to further an argument
that's like using first hand testimony of somebody who is on LSD and has alzheimers in court

 

[El Nino]

btw
sorry if I'm rambling on.
I'm not even entirely sure what I'm arguing anymore

I bet I can ramble on longer than you.

An apple feels stimulus.

Scientifically, no. "Feels" is the term generally used to describe sensations that occur in things with nervous systems. Those systems don't have to be highly complicated, but they are required for the sensation (based on studies and observations). For instance, people who lose the ability to feel stimuli on certain parts of their body have an impairment in either the peripheral or the central nervous system. When the nerve endings are damaged (or when the corresponding parts of the brain are damaged), that part of the body no longer has the ability to feel sensations.

The consumer can't be blamed or faulted for how their product was produced.
We're the consumer
Not the producer

Technically, you may be right. On the other hand, blame is less of an issue when the facts are on the table. Things won't change unless the industry has a reason to change, and that reason can be standards set by the consumer.

I mean its one thing to brutally murder animals and eat them, and its another thing to brutally murder animals and pretend that they don't care either way, that every fibre in there body isn't saturated with fear when they have there throats ripped out and are hanging upside down feeling there organs and vital fluid draining from there partially detached head.

I'm not saying it's right, but "pretending" is how people go through life. If you ever find a way around that, please let me know.

As for the deficiencies thing, I think Goldshadow is pointing out an observed correlation, which is not the same as a cause-effect relationship, though people can confuse the two.

Meaning, vegetarianism can be healthy, but it isn't always observed as such in practice because the people practicing it may not know what they're doing. That's not a problem with vegetarianism; it's a problem with people.

Cause and blame aside, it's still an "effect" that is observed with the practice.

do we talk about vegetarian food/recipes in here? or is it just ******** arguing?

The latter. I think.

On actual food and recipes, I'm not one for the fake meat. It's okay once in a while, but I was never a big fan of boca patties and that stuff. Also, it seems that a lot of American vegan/vegetarians don't like seaweed. I don't know why. I can go through a tub of it at once. And...I kinda wish I had some now.

Restaurant food: Some Asian cuisine places have completely separate vegetarian menus. In my experience, I've seen this at Indian, Thai, Vietnamese, and Chinese food places.

On veganism: I don't think I could do it. My friends who are vegan seem to have delicate stomachs. If they eat anything that is not what they normally eat, they tend to get sick.

As an aside, I've heard that it's impossible to raise a child from newborn to toddler on a completely vegan diet. I'm not planning on having kids, so it doesn't really concern me, but just thought I'd mention it.

 

[Tomacawk]

El Nino, I know 4 vegans including myself, and none of us have "weak stomachs". I am the only fat one out of all of us, but that is because I have only been vegan for around 6 months. I won't be fat for much longer, though, I've already lost 45 lbs with absolutely no workout plan. The point of that is we are the healthiest people I know. And there is nothing wrong with raising a child vegan; I suggest you research rather than accepting information based on heresay.

On veganism: I don't think I could do it. .

NO ****ING JOHNS
this is my least favorite thing to hear in the world. Before I even went vegetarian, I was the PICKIEST EATER I KNEW. I would have chicken and pizza every single day, I ate literally 1 vegetable (potatos), and I only ate 4-5 fruits. I johned out on veganism for half a year while I was vegetarian until I realized that I was making excuses for myself. Taste is relative; if you take animal products out of your mind as even being an option, you will begin to appreciate finer foods.

 

[Mr.Freeman]

So do carrots really improve your vision? I was thinking its just a myth or something.

 

[jugfingers]

Vitamin A certainly plays a role in receiving light through the retina and transmitting it to the brain.

however other vitamins are important as well, Vitamin C, vitamin E, and Zinc all are protective for your eyes, dark anthocyanin rich food like bilberries and blueberries are also very good for your eyes.

 

[Mr.Freeman]

I see. Thanks for the info.

 

[El Nino]

And there is nothing wrong with raising a child vegan; I suggest you research rather than accepting information based on heresay.

I'm not "accepting" it; I'm raising it as a point of discussion. The information came from a case I heard on the radio in which a child was taken from his parents by child services. It was the opinion of the doctor discussing the case that young children (from newborn to toddler) could not be raised vegan due to their nutritional requirements at that age. They end up malnourished. When they get older, I suspect veganism may no longer be an issue, but I'm not a physician. I know people who were raised vegetarian their whole lives, but not anyone who's been raised vegan.

NO ****ING JOHNS
this is my least favorite thing to hear in the world. Before I even went vegetarian, I was the PICKIEST EATER I KNEW.

The problem is that I'm not a picky eater at all. I take food for free from people all the time because I hate to see food wasted. So, that's the dilemma. I'd rather eat the sushi off of a friend's plate than see it get thrown out.

If vegans are anything, they are discriminating. I'm not careful enough. If someone hands me coupons for pepperoni pizza, I'll probably use them, not because I crave it, but because it's cheap. That's my problem. Processed junk with miscellaneous animal parts is...really cheap and affordable.

Taste is relative; if you take animal products out of your mind as even being an option, you will begin to appreciate finer foods.

Yeah, thing is, I don't even crave meat. I just eat it because it's there--even pork, which I tend to find to be the worst tasting out of all of it (and I've eaten plenty of raw seafood before).

Maybe I need to stop being such a scavenger, going after other people's leftovers. That would help.

 

[SuperBowser]

I always finish other people's foods. People find it kind of funny in restaurants. I've ended up eating 2 main courses + 2 starters worth of food before.

As long as I had no part in the food being bought and it's going in the bin anyway, I don't feel bad for eating it. I think this is one way I'll never be a ''true'' vegetarian though.

(and no, i'm not fat before you start thinking that)

 

[REL38]

I used to try to eat the food my friends didn't finish, but then they'd start accusing me of just mooching off of them.

It pains me when they just throw their food away
;_____;

I hate it when people just carelessly throw away food

animals have brains,lungs, hearts, livers,kidneys, nervous systems, their brains produce the same hormones, the same neurotransmitters, they feel, fear,pain,compassion,love just like humans. they love and nuzzle their young, the run in fear from predators, they scream in agony as their chopped apart by giant spinning saws.

Body organs are irrelevent.
That's not what makes them anymore "valued"

People will argue that fear is an instinct as love is the maternal instinct.
Pain is shared in just about all living things.

there are primates that know though thousands of english words, and communciate effectively with humans, who demonstrate all the same emotions as humans.

American society doesn't eat them for such reasons.
They display higher levels of intelligence.
People value dolphins and dogs because of this.
More so than chickens or cows.

I mean its one thing to brutally murder animals and eat them, and its another thing to brutally murder animals and pretend that they don't care either way, that every fibre in there body isn't saturated with fear when they have there throats ripped out and are hanging upside down feeling there organs and vital fluid draining from there partially detached head.

That's how nature works.
Cows are inherint prey.
They've been preyed upon by varies predators throughout history with humans being the most notable.

As I've said before, the manner by which they are killed is still inhumane.
But people will not particuarly care because it's not their problem, that's how nature works, they're just animals, blah blah blah

at least realize that your causing unimaginable pain by supporting the cattle industry
and it is your choice that it is worth it to cause this pain and suffering so that you can eat their flesh, to satisfy your own desire

your assertion that we cannot change the world because people are greedy fools and will do whatever they want is not an accurate reflection of the intellectual capacity of humans.
if people understood the suffering they were causing fully they would stop.

it is simply a lack of awareness.

Pain that will still be brought onto the same cow because it'll just be delayed a few days of death.

If I were to stop eating beef, I would hardly feel accomplished in saving cow lives because the cows I've "saved" during my lifetime would have only been delayed their inevitable death.

Cows don't live fulfilling lives.
They live the lives of being raised for their meat, milk and whatever else is usable.
There's no changing that so why should I give up eating meat when it hardly accomplishes anything in the long run?

Idealy, the human race is capable of extradionary and miraculous feats if we all lived to our fullest potential, but that's just not what happens in real life.

Watch the news
We aren't living to our fullest potential and I highly doubt we ever will.

For simplicity, the seven deadly sins are heavily responsible for the wrong in the world.
But this is going off in a completely different tangent
>_____>


If people were aware of how cows suffer in these slaughter houses, I sincerely doubt people as a whole will stop eating meat.

"They're just cows" is what it'll sum up to imo

At best, the manner by which they are slaughtered will be up for reform.


@El Nino

What I meant was more along the lines of how plants react to stimulus
But I'm unsure if that would translate onto apples :/

You probably could ramble on longer, but every post I make here seems to have me adding almost random points that can lead to other semi-related tangents
>_<

 

[jugfingers]

American society doesn't eat them for such reasons.
They display higher levels of intelligence.
People value dolphins and dogs because of this.
More so than chickens or cows.

Pigs are smarter than dogs.

That's how nature works.
Cows are inherint prey.
They've been preyed upon by varies predators throughout history with humans being the most notable.

this is argument lacks logic.

because we have killed them in the past, and other animals have killed them we should continue to kill them?


just like women have been ***** in the past so we should continue to **** them.


I don't understand your reasoning.

Pain that will still be brought onto the same cow because it'll just be delayed a few days of death.

If I were to stop eating beef, I would hardly feel accomplished in saving cow lives because the cows I've "saved" during my lifetime would have only been delayed their inevitable death.

dieing from natural causes>>>>having your trachea ripped out and being sawed to pieces while still alive



so again your logic is amazing, because cows die anyways we should be able to kill them and eat them whenever we feel like it.


just like humans are going to die anyways so we should be able to kill and torture anyone as we please.

Cows don't live fulfilling lives.
They live the lives of being raised for their meat, milk and whatever else is usable.
There's no changing that so why should I give up eating meat when it hardly accomplishes anything in the long run?

cows aren't naturally raised for slaughter on farms. they usually live in the mountains chewing grass in mountain meadows...

Idealy, the human race is capable of extradionary and miraculous feats if we all lived to our fullest potential, but that's just not what happens in real life.

Watch the news
We aren't living to our fullest potential and I highly doubt we ever will.

For simplicity, the seven deadly sins are heavily responsible for the wrong in the world.
But this is going off in a completely different tangent
>_____>

there are alot of amazing things happening in the world, not much of it is shown on the news though lol....

If people were aware of how cows suffer in these slaughter houses, I sincerely doubt people as a whole will stop eating meat.

"They're just cows" is what it'll sum up to imo

At best, the manner by which they are slaughtered will be up for reform.

Im not talking about simply knowing that they are brutally slaughtered in agonizing pain.

Im talking about an understanding of the type of suffering that they endure, and that no creature should ever have to feel that pain

 

[~N9NE~]

To any vegans here, can you drink Coca Cola and other drinks like that?

I did some quick searches and getting mixed stories.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

Every snowflake in an avalanche pleads "not guilty".

 

[Tomacawk]

To any vegans here, can you drink Coca Cola and other drinks like that?

I did some quick searches and getting mixed stories.

I can eat or drink whatever I want. However, I choose to abstain from any animal product, whether it be food, clotheing, shampoo, etc. There is nothing "un-vegan" about soda, however it is absurdly unhealthy.

 

[~N9NE~]

"Unfortunately we have been told that Coca Cola who make Fanta orange (and light), Lilt pineapple & grapefruit (and light), Alive Orange Cascade, Kia-ora Orange & Pineapple (and no added sugar) are not suitable for vegans due to the fact that fish gelatine is used as a carrier for the Beta Carotene. We checked with the company and it is true.

http://www.last.fm/group/Vegans+and+Vegetarians/forum/2596/_/489183

I don't know how valid this is though, so was just seeking some clarification.

 

[Tomacawk]

I have no idea about that stuff. but I know colas are vegan.

 

[Skrlx]

I'm fine with vegeterians, not vegans though.

 

[Healer]

Hey u should add that dude from heroes; peter petrelli, the actors name is Milo Ventimaligia (i really don't know how to spell his last name)

u should also ad woody harrelson, he ate vegan twinkies in the movie zombieland

 

[Mr.Freeman]

Veggie twinkies? God, that must taste awful..

 

[Healer]

Veggie twinkies? God, that must taste awful..

well idk
their not from vegetables
made it's just normal one's are detested by vegans as they contain some animal product i think gelatin, ( which as a meat eater is still really nasty to know what gelatin is.)
but the cream or something like that is an organic plant product.

 

[Healer]

hey does veggie burgers taste like real burgers? better or worse? i just wanna know, i hate burgers and i've always wondered if veggie burgers taste better....

 

[Tomacawk]

I'm fine with vegeterians, not vegans though.

do you have a good reason?

hey does veggie burgers taste like real burgers? better or worse? i just wanna know, i hate burgers and i've always wondered if veggie burgers taste better....

They taste similar. Whether or not you prefer them depends on your particular palette and how much chemical residue is on your taste buds from processed foods.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

hey does veggie burgers taste like real burgers? better or worse? i just wanna know, i hate burgers and i've always wondered if veggie burgers taste better....

It depends on the brand. A LOT. They run the gamut from ones that taste pretty much just like meat burgers to crazy indian spices and stuff.

 

[Skrlx]

do you have a good reason?

I cannot wrap my brain around on why people would believe on not consuming things that animals make such as milk. I can understand if people do not wish to eat the cow but the milk that they naturally produce?

Anyways, that post of mine is moreso about myself, I wouldn't mind being a vegeterian; however, I don't think I would like to be a vegan.

 

[Tomacawk]

I think you have completely misunderstood the point of being a vegan. It isn't because "eating meat is gross" (which it is. also very unhealthy), it's because of the disgusting enslavement of animals with absolutely no rights. We don't even have the decency to give them a kind enslavement, it's brutal with death, pain, hormones, and living the life of a product, not an animal.
How can you even rationalize that as a reason to be "not fine" with vegans?

 

[Skrlx]

I think you have completely misunderstood the point of being a vegan. It isn't because "eating meat is gross" (which it is. also very unhealthy), it's because of the disgusting enslavement of animals with absolutely no rights. We don't even have the decency to give them a kind enslavement, it's brutal with death, pain, hormones, and living the life of a product, not an animal.
How can you even rationalize that as a reason to be "not fine" with vegans?

What are you talking about? If anything, you have misunderstood my posts. I am talking about vegans not consuming the products animals naturally make such as milk, eggs etc. I was not saying that being vegan is about not eating animals because it's gross. I stated that being vegan is about not eating animals, and not eating the stuff the animals make such as dairy products. That's like saying you won't eat a bee but you also won't consume the honey they make.

 

[~N9NE~]

I think you have completely misunderstood the point of being a vegan. It isn't because "eating meat is gross" (which it is. also very unhealthy)

As far as being gross, that's a matter of opinion. But how is eating meat unhealthy?

also, in conclusion, vegans can drink Coke?

 

[Tomacawk]

Skrlx, the reason is because in order to get the products from the animals they are ultimately doomed to be products themselves.
http://www.hsus.org/farm/news/ournews/treatment_of_dairy_cows_020108.html
In order to get honey from bees, the bees are smoked to cause confusion and "help the safety" of the bee keeper. The bees, as a result, become confused and infuriated and begin stinging anything they can find--which of course is fatal.
Leather and fur are obtained from killing the animal, often illegally poached or purchased from India through economic pressure. The harsh chemicals used to make leather last (keep in mind it is decaying flesh) do irreparable damage to the human worker (this is another issue entirely).
I suggest you watch this free documentary to learn more about why vegans choose to abstain from any animal product.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6361872964130308142&ei=1cV9S6mzBJ-6qwK77ujnBQ&q=earthlings#

Eating meat is incredibly unhealthy.
http://www.goveg.com/healthConcerns.asp
Did you know that the pesticides, hormones, and chemicals in american meat is so vast that the european union boycotts any american-produced meat?
Yummy. More for us.

http://www.celestialhealing.net/physicalveg3.htm

Also I see you have again asked if soda is vegan. And once again let me tell you that as a vegan I can eat whatever I want, however I choose not to eat animal products.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=is+soda+vegan

 

[Skrlx]

Skrlx, the reason is because in order to get the products from the animals they are ultimately doomed to be products themselves.
http://www.hsus.org/farm/news/ournews/treatment_of_dairy_cows_020108.html
In order to get honey from bees, the bees are smoked to cause confusion and "help the safety" of the bee keeper. The bees, as a result, become confused and infuriated and begin stinging anything they can find--which of course is fatal.
Leather and fur are obtained from killing the animal, often illegally poached or purchased from India through economic pressure. The harsh chemicals used to make leather last (keep in mind it is decaying flesh) do irreparable damage to the human worker (this is another issue entirely).
I suggest you watch this free documentary to learn more about why vegans choose to abstain from any animal product.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6361872964130308142&ei=1cV9S6mzBJ-6qwK77ujnBQ&q=earthlings#

Eating meat is incredibly unhealthy.
http://www.goveg.com/healthConcerns.asp
Did you know that the pesticides, hormones, and chemicals in american meat is so vast that the european union boycotts any american-produced meat?
Yummy. More for us.

http://www.celestialhealing.net/physicalveg3.htm

Yes, that is terrible what they do the poor animals, but the concept, do you understand it? If you had the chance to eat honey without harming the bees would you do it? What about dairy products?

 

[Tomacawk]

The concept is irrelevant. We cannot obtain animal products in a peaceful manner so it is a moot point, but I will humor you can say no, out of the interest of my personal health and out of principle I would not partake in such "humanely garnished" products.

 

[~N9NE~]

I'm not American..lol...but to say that eating meat is incredibly unhealthy is too much of a blanket statement.

Eating good quality meat in appropriate proportions provides many necessary nutrients. To say it's outright unhealthy is a case of hyperbole.

 

[SuperBowser]

Most vegans are quite happy to use animal products if they know where they are from. I know some vegans who own their own chickens and eat the eggs.

Veganism is a practical thing for most people rather than a mindless ideology. They will use animal products as long as they know the animals they came from were treated properly.

 

[Tomacawk]

Nine, if you're going to nitpick so much, then I cannot answer your question, you will need to research it and find it for yourself. I have read one book on the matter and researched for hours independently; I can tell you I know this to be true but it is not such a simple concept that I could simply explain it to you in a few minutes.
I suggest you read the book Skinny B4stard or Skinny *****. These books come to that conclusion and site over 200 references in each.

Most vegans are quite happy to use animal products if they know where they are from. I know some vegans who own their own chickens and eat the eggs.

Veganism is a practical thing for most people rather than a mindless ideology. They will use animal products as long as they know the animals they came from were treated properly.

Could you inform me as to how you managed to find out that most vegans are okay with using "humane" animal products? I didn't realize there was a means to communicate with so many vegans. And no, you are wrong. They are not vegans if they're using animal products.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veganism
"Veganism is a diet and lifestyle that seeks to exclude the use of animals for food, clothing, or any other purpose. Vegans endeavor not to use or consume animal products of any kind."
And I am extremely insulted that you have just called it a mindless ideology. Veganism is a very good clue to an independent thinker, the epitome of mindfulness. Is it mindless to live a white collar life, taking what people tell you to be true, believing that smoking pot is wrong, that you must be religious, that it's okay to eat meat, and that you shouldn't question authority?
"go vegan if you really pledge allegiance 'cuz if this is the land of freedom then your kitchen is treason"

 

[~N9NE~]

I was just stating that eating meat has it's pros and cons, and that quantity and quality of meat you eat has to be considered before you can brand it straight out unhealthy.

I appreciate the help with the Coca Cola thing though Tomacawk.

Oh, 2,000+ posts =)

 

[SuperBowser]

Do you ever think why vegans don't use animal products?

If you don't, that is kind of the definition of being mindless...

 

[Skrlx]

The concept is irrelevant. We cannot obtain animal products in a peaceful manner so it is a moot point, but I will humor you can say no, out of the interest of my personal health and out of principle I would not partake in such "humanely garnished" products.

Those **** bears, eating their larvae and honey in such a cruel way. Those foxes, man, they are pretty mean as they not only eat the hens, but they also eat the eggs too!

There is nothing "humane" about this, it's a basic fundemental of the wildlife. I bet snakes don't boil the bird's eggs before eating them.

I still agree on that the way we currently treat our animals is bad, though. But again, I just can't understand veganism.

I respect your decision on why you are a vegan but I don't like it when vegans shove their ideals down people's throats.

 

[Tomacawk]

Those **** bears, eating their larvae and honey in such a cruel way. Those foxes, man, they are pretty mean as they not only heat the hens, but they also eat the eggs too!

There is nothing "humane" about this, it's a basic fundemental of the wildlife. I bet snakes don't boil the bird's eggs before eating them.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html
That is a logical fallacy.
You're comparing animals hunting for their survival to humans enslaving animals for their wants.
We do not need meat to live (in fact we'd have far more food without the meat industry, not to mention far less polution), and we do not get our meat in any way similar to that.

Do you ever think why vegans don't use animal products?

If you don't, that is kind of the definition of being mindless...

Have you read anything that I've posted?