Vertical spacing - an overlooked aspect of spacing in Brawl

[Kitamerby]

Bleh, Lucario's vertical spacing is imo pretty poor.

His fall speed is so slow, and all of his aerials that reliably hit below him either have quite a bit of landing lag, or don't land very often period. :\

If only Fair had just a few frames less landing lag, then we'd be kings at it, but alas...

 

[A2ZOMG]

Back on topic: so if I'm reading this right...would Ike's Uair be a good vertical spacing tool, due to it's big hitbox, and eating airdodges when combined with Full hops + Fast Falling when the opponent is in the right position?

No, that's juggle trapping which is about creating openings...vertical spacing is about using mobility for safely staying out of range in case they defend.

Ike is probably one of the worst vertical spacers in the game. He's committed to one aerial per jump, meaning that even if your opponent is tall enough to say...be fullhop B-aired, you'll still get punished if they defend. He has very little to mix up his descent, and has trouble landing with aerials safely in general.

 

[hippiedude92]

Pierce, how do you feel with vertical spacing with luigi, mario ??

Sorry for one liner post, post more after ur opinon

 

[Remzi]

Really good thread. I've been fullhopping a good amount since probably the beginning of 09, rising full hop aerials are just too good in some matchups.

 

[Pierce7d]

Pierce, how do you feel with vertical spacing with luigi, mario ??

Sorry for one liner post, post more after ur opinon

I don't mind one line questions. I'm talking about posts that basically say "Good read."

Anyway, vertical spacing is good with all characters, but the bros mainly space horizontally. I can't speak too much for Luigi, as that's one of the few characters I don't play, but I rarely focus heavily on vertical spacing with Mario, since his primary zoning tool (Bair) is so linear. I do use fireballs to limit counter approaches with Mario though, especially to cut off vertical options by having a fireball go along a platform as I go underneath it, locking off jump, and still aiming for the opponent.

 

[DUB]

I think you did an good job explaining your points and the videos could not have provided better demonstrations. I might have to talk to you about Vertical Spacing and Bananas later.

 

[phi1ny3]

I can now say with confidence that my theory of full hop and therefore vertical zoning is really undervalued and not looked into enough for Lucario. A character with a lot less weakness from underneath and a lot of air time for a character with only two jumps could really benefit from this, plus Lee's pretty much implimented what I've been thinking about for it when I finally saw videos of it working in action.

@Kita: Dair lag depends on how you space it/whether you're ascending or descending. Bair is also from what I've seen really safe, and uair isn't too bad as well. The mere fact that at high vertical levels of vertical spacing Lucario really shines because his options become really hard to punish especially since most characters don't want to be caught dead leaving the ground too far up, plus it removes one of Lucario's more poorer weakness of having relatively laggy aerials near the ground REALLY helps. If you time/space fair right you can do a full hop fair -> FF fair without any landing lag ala marth lol, not that that's really amazing in lots of aspects, but you can really grasp at a lot of options

@Vrael: Well for one, they presented the MK ban threads, and collected a lot of good sources iirc, unless that's the work of SWF as a whole as opposed to SBR in particular.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Anyway, vertical spacing is good with all characters, but the bros mainly space horizontally. I can't speak too much for Luigi, as that's one of the few characters I don't play, but I rarely focus heavily on vertical spacing with Mario, since his primary zoning tool (Bair) is so linear. I do use fireballs to limit counter approaches with Mario though, especially to cut off vertical options by having a fireball go along a platform as I go underneath it, locking off jump, and still aiming for the opponent.

Luigi's D-air is a good example of a vertical spacing option. Usually he's able to float outside of horizontal spacing range with SH D-airs. You can also mash the cyclone from the ground if your opponent shields to prevent them from shieldgrabbing you or landing a Smash out of shield on your ending lag.

With Mario, the main vertical spacing option I use (besides the obvious Cape) is actually fullhop N-air. Generally speaking, I use this as a defensive (oos) option, to clear out people when I'm pressured and don't know exactly where they are trying to land. By fullhopping it, it limits what can be used to punish Mario. Taller characters I also use fullhop B-airs to mix up my spacing.

Mario is also able to land his Up-B on the top platform of BF if he angles it upwards. I'm pretty sure that counts as vertical spacing too, in that it helps you avoid getting punished in case you whiff a Up-B out of shield.