Vs. Ike and Marth?

[Pretty In Pink]

I absolutely cannot win against these two. I get close, and they either counter or overpower me with their superior range. Grabbing is useless and going aerial will just end up with me dying (Marth especially). I try to camp with Needles, and it works at times, but it just doesn't work in smaller stages. What should I do?

 

[Soma]

I play both of these match-ups like I did against Marth in Melee... Its hasn't changed much.

 

[imdavid]

I agree with Soma. While approaching Marth is a bit harder without our trustee wave dashing, just be patient and time your grabs between his fairs. You said your grabbing didnt do you any good, a good tactic for this is the sliding shield grab, or whatever technical name the board gives it

Dash forward toward the marth and shield, because of the momentum you'll slide forward with your shield up, most likely get hit by a fair or a smash or some kind of poke, and follow it up with a grab. The boost smash works wonders against marths and ikes, make sure you catch em by surprise! And finally... make sure you are gimping their recoveries with bairs from the ledge, fairs, and needles.

Ike just really shouldn't give you any problems, roll away from his laggy moves and just ftilt combo ftw.... yeah...

 

[ADHD]

Spam single needles to keep Ike at bay a bit, and when he thinks you're going to continue to spam needles and his guard is down go for him. Play very defensively with your downsmash, and be sure to spot dodge his aerials. Keep marth at bay too; while he may be faster, the downsmash pretty much takes care of his close combat as long as his tipper can't touch you. Don't be afraid to fair them or bair them when they're off the stage.

 

[bobknob]

if they counter a lot then don't go for follow-up attacks every time; feint instead and upsmash them after they counter

sheik in brawl is all about the feints, dude

 

[SinkingHigher]

DISTANCE YOURSELF.

Stay away from them and always keep you needles charged. When they try to come at you, especially with that dash attack, just throw your needles, dash, dash attack, D-Smash, F-Smash, f-tilt, f-tilt, f-tilt, U-Smash.


You can form your own combos, but patience is key. Wait for them to attack. Since they take like half an hour to swing their swords, and you can attack instantly, just plan out your strategies according to that info.