Vs. Yoshi

[redshift71388]

I'm having a very difficult time fighting Yoshi, especially on flat stages. Obviously, because of his Egg Roll. No matter which attacks I use, Olimar can't seem to break through it, and the Pikmin will just end up getting steamrolled instead. So, any advice is appreciated.

 

[f0r3man]

Have you tried to do the Olimar Curb Stomp on the egg. That should break his egg. Once you get him in the air from that, you should be able to have no problems. I'm surprised that a Fsmash doesn't have more priority over the egg roll.

 

[redshift71388]

Thanks, I'll try that. I usually try to avoid this by picking stages with platforms, but it's a real problem on Final Destination. Once I have a reliable way to neutralize the Egg Roll, it should be cake.

 

[Zori]

You beat yoshi by pressing L+R+A+start yoshi is an olimar counter.

 

[Aggression]

lol yoshi owns those little %$&#ers

 

[Dr. Hyde]

umm... no?
I do believe I've grabbed my friend's Yoshi out of the egg before but if you're in the air you're in trouble, dodge and get to the ground fast.

also, Curb stomp? What move is that?

 

[Ultimatum479]

Dr. Hyde's probably right: Oli's grab should beat the Egg Roll. I know I use that all the time against spin-dashing Sonics.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Stay in the air a lot more against Yoshi than you would against other characters. Olimar's air game kills him. But be somewhat close to the ground. Shorthop or Full jump depending on what height Yoshi is at. Don't use your 2nd jump on stage, you're better off landing again. Stay off of FD. If he egg rolls, go on a platform, or grab him out of it. A charged fsmash breaks the egg, not the cstick fsmash though.

 

[shrinkray21]

Yoshi is the hardest matchup that I've had with olly - the last couple times I simply counterpicked to marth in the second or third match of the set to avoid getting embarrassed. I know the egg is annoying, but what you should be really worried about is the aerial str of yoshi vs olly - the dair can power through both your upsmash and uptilt - the upair usually washes in this battle - but worst of all is the bair to uair combo that killed me 3 times in one match. The problem is that olly dodge doesn't last all of the way though the bair and the SAF still allows you to get hit with the uair - I have to say that this matchup is still a mystery to me - I have not seen a good yoshi get beat by olly yet and I don't expect to see it happen very often.

 

[redshift71388]

I know the egg is annoying, but what you should be really worried about is the aerial str of yoshi vs olly - the dair can power through both your upsmash and uptilt - the upair usually washes in this battle - but worst of all is the bair to uair combo that killed me 3 times in one match.

Well I'm dealing with a particular Yoshi user, and he seems to overuse the roll. I do need to start grabbing more, it has helped against other characters like Marth and Ike too.

 

[Puddin]

I have a friend that mains Yoshi, were 50/50 but I suppose thats because we fight often and know each others strategies against his Yoshi I tend to stay ON the ground more often then not because my friend shows no mercy in the air =\ I find it fairly easy to predict Yoshi's Egg Roll, so I basically let him use it since Olimars grab can break him out of it. But this is the only Yoshi I've ever fought so I cant say I'm all too experienced against them.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

Stay in the air a lot more against Yoshi than you would against other characters. Olimar's air game kills him. But be somewhat close to the ground. Shorthop or Full jump depending on what height Yoshi is at. Don't use your 2nd jump on stage, you're better off landing again. Stay off of FD. If he egg rolls, go on a platform, or grab him out of it. A charged fsmash breaks the egg, not the cstick fsmash though.

I have to disagree Rapid. While I do play a Yoshi every now and then, I prefer the ground any day. When you play good Yoshi's they definitely will be doing some major damage in the air.

...I know the egg is annoying, but what you should be really worried about is the aerial str of yoshi vs olly - the dair can power through both your upsmash and uptilt - the upair usually washes in this battle - but worst of all is the bair to uair combo that killed me 3 times in one match. The problem is that olly dodge doesn't last all of the way though the bair and the SAF still allows you to get hit with the uair - I have to say that this matchup is still a mystery to me - I have not seen a good yoshi get beat by olly yet and I don't expect to see it happen very often.

^^
my point well said.

I will hopefully learn to play Yoshi as a 4th for fun but maybe that will open up some areas of understanding and hope to beat him.

 

[Tynomic]

Just a tip for the egg roll, it has more vulnerability when turning.

 

[DarkStraw]

i could have sworn ive fsmashed yoshi's egg... maby it was a downsmash. ill have to test it out to see... i really havent had much trouble with yoshi, but i dont play against him much either.


ok, did some testing, downsmash cancels out the roll, and if you dash attack it cancels out the roll as well. If you use a purple pikmin fmash it actually hits him out of his shell and hurts him. downtilt will cancel out the role so long as your inching forward at the time, if you inch forward and he hits you before the next inch then it dosent work.

 

[ne_Ziggy]

Well I don't have a Wii at all, so I can't really check if this works, but I suppose you can time a SH with a DAIR right over the egg . Even if you miss or get overprioritized (again, not sure if it will, I don't have this game to check), you can still double jump over if the Yoshi manages to turn around in his roll. Confuses him, but don't overuse it.

 

[scalpel]

Okay, most of these suggestions are not helpful. I'm sorry, but it's better to just accept that Yoshi is naturally a very good counter to Olimar, and any Olimar player will have to work twice as hard to win - the odds are against Olimar. Once we've accepted this statistic, then we can actually try and find ways to not lose to Yoshi so embarrassingly.

The egg roll is a problem. If you are on the ground, and you do not grab Yoshi in time, your only option is to avoid getting hit. You must retreat like a coward, basically, because Yoshi will be controlling the ground when he's rolling, and there's nothing you can do about it. A charged forward smash can break Yoshi out of the egg roll, but obviously you will not have enough time to fully charge your smash attack. I mean, if you don't even have enough time to grab Yoshi (unless you grab him right away, right as he starts rolling), how could you fully charge a forward smash? Bottom line is to either grab right away, or run.

I don't understand how fighting in the air more often is any better, either. Yoshi has great aerial attacks. That's actually one of the main problems against these sorts of matches. Any opponent with a good air game will be trouble to Olimar, so I don't see how this match is any different. At least if you stay on the ground, you can react more quickly when Yoshi egg rolls, and may get a chance to grab him out of it. If you're in the air and Yoshi egg rolls, you missed your chance of grabbing him, and now you must run.

I am currently doing some tests on Olimar vs Yoshi matches. I suspect that Olimar's tilt attacks may prove to be very useful in these sorts of out-of-the-ordinary matches, just like they are in Wolf matches.

 

[DanGR]

I suspect that Olimar's tilt attacks may prove to be very useful in these sorts of out-of-the-ordinary matches, just like they are in Wolf matches.

ha-HA! i knew it all along. no-one believed me. olimar's tilts ARE in fact GOOD. now use them.

anyways, i think his tilts are the key to this matchup. I've found that most characters that olimar is bad against, have an "olimar tilt" weakness. It catches most players off guard b/c it's very rare they get to sg olimar. he's a camper character. They're not used to the quickness of small, toe-less space men performing karate. It's all in the mind. but seriously...

 

[OlimarFan]

ha-HA! i knew it all along. no-one believed me. olimar's tilts ARE in fact GOOD. now use them.

anyways, i think his tilts are the key to this matchup. I've found that most characters that olimar is bad against, have an "olimar tilt" weakness. It catches most players off guard b/c it's very rare they get to sg olimar. he's a camper character. They're not used to the quickness of small, toe-less space men performing karate. It's all in the mind. but seriously...

lololol...precise dodging will help? If Yoshi was going to Egg Roll me I'd head to the edge of the stage (Final Destination I assume) and camp....

Let O be Olimar, Y be Yoshi and ___________________________________________
be Final Destination.

___O_____________Y_________________________

Assume Y does Egg roll. In my opinion, the best choices would either be to dodge, roll (so Yoshi falls off the edge), or to dodge, then F-Smash to the left. (assuming the Yoshi user does not roll off the edge)


-_-"

O________________________________________

Y


Olimar-1
Yoshi-0


The Yoshi user may have just stopped from falling to his/her doom....

Y__O______________________________________

Attack now! F-Smash!

(This also applies to the other side of the stage)



What if you were in the middle of the stage?

_____________O___________Y________________

You have mutliple options at this point:

Offensive: Ok, but it is risky (maybe the egg will out-prioritise Olimar's moves) as it requires precise timing. Brilliant, if successful....horrible, if you get it. A complete failure.

Defensive: Dodge and roll, etc. Not good at all. Horrible if you get hit. Not that great either, if you successfully evade the attack...

________Y____O___________________________

Now the opponent is coming right back for you and tactically you have achieved nothing but evaded the attack.

This is what I think:

_____________O___________Y________________

Run towards Yoshi!
__________________O_____Y________________

Hehe, you missed! (Olimar short-jumps over the egg )

O
___________________Y___________________

This different than any defensive maneuver. Now, you have gained the perfect height for a Pikmin barrage and evaded the attack! A Defensive maneuver into an offensive maneuver!

Unfortunately, this may not work (I do not have the game yet) as the Pikmin might get steamrolled by the egg. But, do not fret...

_________________Y_________________O___

Now, you should have ample time to go the other edge and camp. I'm quite confident that Pikmin>Egg Throws

=>Camping Olimar>Camping Yoshi

So yeah, that's what the lone AUS guys thinks! But remember, this only works in a certain scenario (against those Egg rolling guys )


BTW

Gaz was right: Yoshi's Aerial Attacks are pretty good. However, I never thought too highly of Yoshi's B-Air so maybe Olimar could exploit that further.

 

[DanGR]

yoshi's bair has great priority. that's all.

what you CAN do against the egg roll is dodge it until he's ready to come out. it doesn't last forever. begin throwing your pikmen when he's close to the limit of his steamrollage. you'll get him when he pops out. you'll get a little damage on him. just repeat if he pulls out the egg.

 

[Gindler]

Being a yoshi main I thought I'd try and help yall out. As for Olimarfan...no, I've never rolled off the edge cause you have a lot of time to turn around once you get there do to the edge mechanics but yes that is the time to use your Fsmash cause once the egg gets speed it's priority is insane (cancels out Falcon Punches, enough said) so when you get him turning around with no speed it'll shatter. Another thing is yoshi's Bair, this'll destroy your Fsmash and overB cause do to it being a multihit attack it'll just kill the pikmin without yoshi batting an eye.

Oh and if you're a fan of your Uptilt and Upsmash say goodbye to them in this match, yoshi's Dair kicks like 15 times and will easily shread the pikmin and hit olimar to boot so that's not a good trade off. You can still use them on a grounded yoshi but no good yoshi will be near you grounded not doing anything.

Another thing to be concerned about is yoshi's projectile, it outranges you guy's by a long shot and it's aimable. and even if you throw pikmin on yoshi he'll just use a Bair to kill them before they do any damage, so if I were you I'd save myself the trouble

The final thing is yoshi's insane edgeguarding game, I think it's one of the best not as good as marth of course but still pretty good. So once you're off the edge say good bye to your stock pretty much as he can hog the edge easier than most, and faster too with his DownB edgegrab.

From fighting a few olimars I didn't 3 stock all of them, Oli's grounded UpB will hit yoshi every time so whenever you can use it use it, Oli's air game is pretty good too, sure you'll be trading hits with yoshi since his air game is good too but it's better than being completely destroyed, be sure to use the Dsmash too, some reason the pikmin aren't at all easy to kill during this cause they're walking I guess (yoshi's Ftilt out ranges that so be careful). Oh and whatever you do don't get his by yoshi's Uair, a non fatigued one (you know attacks get weaker more you use it) will kill olimar at right about 100% and is yoshi's best kill move by far.

Oh and if you want to know the most annoying thing to any yoshi player, footstool jump. If you get him before his second jump you just waisted your chance but if you get him during or after his second jump you just killed yourself a yoshi, oh and you can try the spike but yoshi's second jump has super armor so he might just fly through it and laught.

I'd still say Zori is pretty correct in this, this matchup is probably the most one sided in the game if I've ever seen it.

 

[Deleted member]

Ok im a yoshi main, i sometimes have trobule but heres how i see it:

YOshi has to approach or get camped.
Yoshi cant approach straight on, because of grabs and fsmashes.
Yoshi cant approach from straight above because of usmash (yoshis dair doesnt break olimars rediculous usmash gindler).
Yoshi can approach diagonally, because his bair outranges olimars fair. Egg roll is a good move, but not as an approach, ull just get grabbed.

The olimar player wants to play defensive. Up b can help prevent bair approaches. Watch out for yoshis nair and fair offstage. Yoshi lacks downward priority so once hes above u u can do mean things. If hes egg rolling, grab him.

 

[DanGR]

Another thing to be concerned about is yoshi's projectile, it outranges you guy's by a long shot and it's aimable. and even if you throw pikmin on yoshi he'll just use a Bair to kill them before they do any damage, so if I were you I'd save myself the trouble

I'm not saying you're wrong about the matchup, b/c i totally agree with most of what you're saying. I'm just saying that yoshi's projectile can't matchup with olimar's pikmen.

Pikmen throw has more range,(throw it farther than the eggs) unlike you said, the pikmen are indeed aimable,(just as any projectile is) and below i'll explain why camping against yoshi isn't even considered a good idea anyways.

Smart olimar users will realize later(if they don't already know now)that thrown pikmen can be killed, and the attacks your opponents use to kill them suffer DR! = don't spam them unconsciously! your opponent can use their worst damaging/combo-ing/all-around-worst move(that can kill pikmen)to kill them. This gives their better moves boosts! Yes! Us olimar players shouldn't use pikmen to camp against characters with quick moves b/c they can kill them fast. The bigger character's have trouble getting them off though. we need to throw pikmen and rush in. It gives your opponent two bad options.

1.)They will get the pikmen off. This leaves vulnerable for punishment(even if they jump away and kill the pikmen, you're still making progress. If they keep choosing this option, you can just throw more pikmen until they jump off the edge )

This will also leave them more predictable. When they decide to kill the pikmen, they have to do it with attacks. Grabs won't get them off.(of course) (How many times have you seen your opponent grab olimar when a pikmen is biting their back?) If they try and attack the pikmen and YOU at the same time to keep the pikmen from hurting them, 99% of the time they won't try to grab you. You'll know this. With this in mind, you can much more easily and predictably shieldgrab your opponent.

2.)They'll try and dodge YOU, not the pikmen. The pikmen will just tear them up-another way to hurt them.

 

[Gindler]

Ok im a yoshi main, i sometimes have trobule but heres how i see it:

YOshi has to approach or get camped.
Yoshi cant approach straight on, because of grabs and fsmashes.
Yoshi cant approach from straight above because of usmash (yoshis dair doesnt break olimars rediculous usmash gindler).
Yoshi can approach diagonally, because his bair outranges olimars fair. Egg roll is a good move, but not as an approach, ull just get grabbed.

The olimar player wants to play defensive. Up b can help prevent bair approaches. Watch out for yoshis nair and fair offstage. Yoshi lacks downward priority so once hes above u u can do mean things. If hes egg rolling, grab him.

Ah, sorry it musta been merely the uptilt, just the good oli player (well everyone was saying he was good) I played against musta loved it so much more than Usmash cause I'd never get hit while he's grounded and I'm above, but Oli's Uair is defenitly going to tear through a Yoshi Dair.

and DangR sorry if I was mistaken again, I know that pikmin are way more spammable than eggs do to eggs horrible pre lag time, and yeah latching a pikmin on any character will make them want to get it off immediatly causing them to attack early and for you to have your way with them.

I guess the Oli player I've played didn't camp at all cause he was trying to stay in the air most of the match and rarely grabbed which seemed odd. I wish I could get more and more Oli experience but since I main Yoshi the Oli mains always go with a secondary.

 

[DanGR]

its all good man. thanks for visiting the olimar threads to help us out.

 

[redshift71388]

Grabs did turn out to be pretty effective against the Egg Roll, to the point where the user stopped abusing it so much. I still need to work on the rest of Yoshi though... Thanks for the suggestions, Gindler.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

Thanks for the informations Yoshi's much appreciated.

 

[Puddin]

i could have sworn ive fsmashed yoshi's egg... maby it was a downsmash. ill have to test it out to see... i really havent had much trouble with yoshi, but i dont play against him much either.


ok, did some testing, downsmash cancels out the roll, and if you dash attack it cancels out the roll as well. If you use a purple pikmin fmash it actually hits him out of his shell and hurts him. downtilt will cancel out the role so long as your inching forward at the time, if you inch forward and he hits you before the next inch then it dosent work.

It is possible to break him out of the egg roll with Fsmash but uncharged with Cstick it takes about three Pikmin depending on the color that hits the egg but if you have time you hit his egg three times with an Fsmash your better off grabbing them out of it. Also I dont know why but for some reason Eldin Bridge is a good stage against Yoshi, like I mentioned in an earlier post I have a friend who mains Yoshi that I fight frequently and obviously he usually beats me up pretty good but I still win match's, but I was fighting him at Eldin Bridge and got him two stock below me which is rare and lucky =\ I'm guessing it was the length of the stage giving me a better distance to predict and counter the egg roll but just a guess =\

 

[OlimarFan]

Ah, sorry it musta been merely the uptilt, just the good oli player (well everyone was saying he was good) I played against musta loved it so much more than Usmash cause I'd never get hit while he's grounded and I'm above, but Oli's Uair is defenitly going to tear through a Yoshi Dair.

and DangR sorry if I was mistaken again, I know that pikmin are way more spammable than eggs do to eggs horrible pre lag time, and yeah latching a pikmin on any character will make them want to get it off immediatly causing them to attack early and for you to have your way with them.

I guess the Oli player I've played didn't camp at all cause he was trying to stay in the air most of the match and rarely grabbed which seemed odd. I wish I could get more and more Oli experience but since I main Yoshi the Oli mains always go with a secondary.

Woot we have a Yoshi Main helping us out! :D We must repay your kindness! How can we help?

 

[TrueRedemption]

Don't be such a hard nosed Olimar and the Yoshi matchup will become less of a one sided affair. Don't worry about attacking through Yoshi's moves as much as punishing the longer/slower ones. As mentioned a turning egg is not a strong egg, so forefit a bit of position to limit the Yoshi's turning space, very punishable if you can't manage the grab timing (which you should probably work on 0,o). Don't attempt to out aerial Yoshi, its not a favorable situation as explained, however I've found the ground time of a landing Yoshi particularly vulnerable, few moves come out so quickly upon landing that spacing cannot be set up, and thats only necessary if the yoshi chooses so quick a move you can't punish a missed aerial. So rather than trying to USmash a DAir or BAir or whatever, a quick roll/dodge/shield where appropriate can reset the situation typically, usually frustrating your opponent more than anything else causing them to try some different approach. In no way is this an easy matchup for Olimar, but by minimizing the effects of yoshi's strengths, you can cause more punishable errors or more balanced encounters.



-True