Wait, Ike can do that? - a Comprehensive Guide to Ike (A Work in Progress)

[Melfice z]

Lol, captain falcon?

...must be all that muscle mass...

 

[Kirk]

DDD is the heaviest *vertically* by a fair margin.

The list takes into account horizontal as well and takes an average.

What I don't see is fast-fall speeds...which further make DDD one of the heaviest around as well as move Link up there(he falls like a ton of bricks).

 

[Teh Brettster]

DDD is the heaviest *vertically* by a fair margin.

The list takes into account horizontal as well and takes an average.

What I don't see is fast-fall speeds...which further make DDD one of the heaviest around as well as move Link up there(he falls like a ton of bricks).

This is exactly what I was thinking when I said that about DK. D3 can be hit by fresh Uair at higher percents than anyone else and live.
I guess I was thinking more about vertical killing. Thinking of Bowz the same way.

 

[Kimchi]

Hey, I noteticed a small little mistake, Ike really has FOUR spikes, not three, but three of them are only useful, thats


Up-B

D-air

D-tilt


and the one that not really all that useful


B


just letting you, not being mean.

I'm counting the spikes that are legitimately meteor smashes, not stage spikes.

 

[lcampoy8]

It's not a stage spike, the tip of the sword on eruption can spike. I remeber I spike some with it but it didn't kill home 'cause we were above the stage.

I always thought that bowser was the heaviest character

 

[Nysyarc]

It's not a stage spike, the tip of the sword on eruption can spike. I remeber I spike some with it but it didn't kill home 'cause we were above the stage.

Hmm, although I know it can be done, I've never seen it done which can attest to it's impracticality. I can't see it actually ever being used as a spike in a serious match except maybe for showboating if you're up two stocks and feeling like a prick. Still, jumping off-stage and timing your eruption so you hit your opponent with the bottom tip of it while they're recovering would be hard even on opponents with bad recovery.

Then again, I'd probably pay money to see someone Eruption spike another Ike out of Aether in a serious match. That person would be my hero.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Then again, I'd probably pay money to see someone Eruption spike another Ike out of Aether in a serious match. That person would be my hero.

Seeing as I Dtilted Slaps out of his Aether twice in one game yesterday (which brings my total to 4), I think I may have to move on to this goal.

I'ma be your hero.

 

[Nysyarc]

Seeing as I Dtilted Slaps out of his Aether twice in one game yesterday (which brings my total to 4), I think I may have to move on to this goal.

I'ma be your hero.

Go for it, and if you get it you'd better save it on replay and it better be all over the interwebz within the week.

Also, I keep forgetting to use my new text color and sign-off...

 

[Kimchi]

It's not a stage spike, the tip of the sword on eruption can spike. I remeber I spike some with it but it didn't kill home 'cause we were above the stage.

Yes, the tip of the sword of Eruption that doesn't set people on fire sends people down, but at best, it's a very, very weak meteor smash and it's not very practical so I concluded that it's not worth mentioning at all.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Very, very weak?
Crap.
I didn't know this.
I have never seen it actually pulled off in the air.

 

[Nysyarc]

Well.. in that case you've got a heck of a task in front of you Brett, lol. Get em to like 250% from constant jabs, pummels and grab releases and then go for that Eruption spike.

 

[Palpi]

ive hit with it before its 100% useless.

 

[Rorar]

when this guide is done imma make sweet love to it

 

[Chis]

Then again, I'd probably pay money to see someone Eruption spike another Ike out of Aether in a serious match. That person would be my hero.

I got 2 spikes in a match.

Do I win?

 

[Nysyarc]

I got 2 spikes in a match.

Do I win?

If they were Eruption spikes, then not only do you win, you also... wait, what's better than winning?

/wtf

I feel bad for making so many off-topic posts. Remember guys I'm here if you want me to contribute in any way to the guide. Maybe you could put me on a discussion panel or something if you don't trust me to do something on my own

 

[Kimchi]

Still waiting on Palpi for the Move set Analysis so :/.

 

[Kimchi]

Okay, I really want to get this going. Palpi, are you still working on that move analysis?

 

[Kirk]

Why does your progress rely on Palpi? There's nothing else that can be done? :o

 

[Kimchi]

I've actually written up quite a few things on approaches/playing passively outside of Smashboards, but yeah, I'm actually waiting on Palpi for this.

 

[metroid1117]

I've actually written up quite a few things on approaches/playing passively outside of Smashboards, but yeah, I'm actually waiting on Palpi for this.

Approaches? Ussi and I worked on that a while ago, but I haven't gone around to finishing it... sorry. I'll post what we have done and you can choose whether you want it or not.

"NAir
NAir should only be used as an approach against opponents whose grab ranges do not exceed NAir’s range; to be safe, do not try to use NAir as an approach against any characters with tether grabs and D3. However, NAir against Marth isn’t a smart approach; this is because it is easy bait for a Dolphin Slash out-of-shield (OoS) and Marth’s FAir is faster than Ike’s NAir. Likewise, MK can shut down NAir approaches in the same fashion; his FAir is also faster than Ike’s NAir, while Shuttle Loop OoS can punish it easily. Against tethers that take a (comparatively) long time to come out, however, you can NAir -> jab if they try to shieldgrab you; those tether characters would be Samus, ZSS, and Yoshi. When facing the likes of Charizard and DK, NAir must be tipped in order to avoid being shiedgrabbed. NAir is in general a fairly safe approach because of its comparatively minimal landing lag, but even so, it must be used wisely.

FAir
In order to be as safe as possible with FAir, you must try to aim at your opponent with the furthest point of the attack, which is the middle of the arc during the animation. The best way to do that is to fastfall your FAirs, which will also reduce the landing lag animation. If done properly, FAir is able to outrange a plethora of attacks, including as Marth’s Counter, DK’s FSmash, and Snake’s UTilt. This does not, however, mean that you should jump into these attacks and expect to out-range them; while it has excellent range, FAir also has a considerable amount of landing lag (18 frames), making it easy to punish if you miss. It also has a considerable amount of start-up lag, making shorter-ranged but faster moves like Kirby's BAir, Marth's FAir, or Ness' FAir constantly trump it without critical spacing. In general, FAir is an unsafe approach against tether characters, but a well-spaced FAir may work on select few such as Lucas, Ivysaur, and Yoshi. Against non-tether characters, a spaced FAirs is generally safe; however, that is not the case against D3. If you do not space your FAirs perfectly, D3 will be able to grab you and you’ll take a lot of damage from the chaingrab and risk losing your stock. Therefore, you must never rush your FAir spacing on D3; think before you act. Do not, however, underrate the power of FAir; it can and will out-range all aerial approaches except TL’s, Link’s, and Samus’ ZAir when spaced properly.

Other
Ike’s approaches, however, are not limited to just NAir’ing and FAir’ing. Universal approaches such as short-hopped airdodges (SHAD) work well for Ike, especially when jabbing upon landing is added. Dashing in with a shield is useful as well, since Ike can counterattack with either a shield grab or a shield-dropped jab. In addition to running in with a shield, running in with a spot-dodge works as well if you’re fighting a grab-happy opponent. For approaching when the enemy is in the air, reverse aerial rush (RAR) BAir works extremely well because of its speed and horizontal range. In order to mix it up when your opponent starts airdodging out of anticipation for the RAR BAir, a RAR NAir works well depending on how much control they have on their aerial drift. If you can read your opponent well enough, Ike’s USmash is excellent to counter dodge-happy opponents; a running USmash can cover spot-dodges and people who roll behind you, while a reverse USmash can cover rolls away from you. The ducking animation during start-up can also let you slip under aerial approaches if you’re close enough to your opponent. Another, unorthodox approach is to use falling UAirs; the hitbox for UAir is always out at Ike’s hands, so it can be used to shield-stab tall characters and hit tall spot-dodgers. It does work against characters of medium height like Mario, but it is much harder to shield-stab them compared to a tall character like Snake or ROB. Note that when attempting the falling UAir approach, however, that you should try to land behind the character to avoid being grabbed.

When to Rush
First and foremost, follow the momentum; approach fast and hard when you have the pressure on your side. Take it slow in the beginning so you can get a feel for how your opponent plays.

(Note: the following was written entirely by Ussi.)

Approaching is all about momentum. Gaining momentum puts approaching in your favor, while losing it puts you in an unfavorable and easy to read approach. What I mean is, a successful approach gives you more momentum to approach again. Thus meaning you can keep an aggressive approach to give even more pressure. A defensive approach is ideal when you have to take it slow and have to reset the momentum."

 

[comboking]

Is there anything I can help with? I don't care what it is.

 

[Slaps]

Well.. in that case you've got a heck of a task in front of you Brett, lol. Get em to like 250% from constant jabs, pummels and grab releases and then go for that Eruption spike.

ill Fsmash that ****! lol no ones gonna get me to 250%!!!

 

[momochuu]

I've been watching this thread for a long time. It would be better to have more work done than what's on the OP. =X

 

[Kimchi]

I've been watching this thread for a long time. It would be better to have more work done than what's on the OP. =X

I'm actually working on it out of SmashBoards, but I've updated the OP with Nair as one of Ike's approaches. Progress is good! Just slow .

 

[Ussi]

You could just put up what Metroid and I wrote about approaching. You didn't even mention how a tipped nair outranged DDD's grab range (impractical cause it's by a pixel, hence why i wrote tipped nair is required for DK and Zard and not to use Nair on DDD)

 

[Nelo Vergil]

It seems to me that it may be easier to just create a new video guide series, which Ryoko is already working on, so this seems a smidge pointless, because most basics and such are already known. People learn better through visual performance than reading (I myself need a refresher course, I havent played in far to long, and I am pretty darn bad atm). At the very least, more progress should be shown. I do support you though kimchi, and if I may assist you, Id happily help.

Wow its been forever since I posted on this board

 

[Teh Brettster]

#cricket

Progress check?

 

[Kimchi]

#cricket

Progress check?

I made a video on how to jab cancel/several setups following jab canceling. It's a bit crude, but I spent some time on it. I'm probably going to give this a huge update soon. I just got a lot of schoolwork to worry about at the moment.

 

[comboking]

I am serious is there anything I can do to help?

 

[Palpi]

I am sorry for being so late. I was so lazy this summer, now I am back in school, and back into writing mode!!! Please review this because I tend to make a lot of spelling and grammar mistakes, especially on smashboards for some reason....soooooo yeah I will have throwns and specials tomorrow.


I know I probably left some stuff out for b-air and maybe some of his tilts....or EVERYTHING!!! but I tried to keep it short and simple, so don't hesitate to correct my mistakes and improve upon the analysis.


Jab - Ike’s jab is by Far Ike’s most versatile move. A swift punch starts off the three hit “combo” and can lead into some guaranteed set-ups and some pseudo-combos. On most characters, and at most percents Ike can Jab, cancel, then do a full Jab Combo (AAA). Some possible combos, that are dependent on character weight and DI, are jab -> B-air and Jab -> U-tilt. It can also work as a mix up for approaching if you short hop then air dodge to the ground.
1st Jab (A)
Hit: 3-4
End: 24
IASA: 17

2nd Jab (A, A)
Hit: 19-20 (With 5 frames Hitlag)
End: 48 (With 10 frames Hitlag)
IASA: 41 (With 10 frames Hitlag)

3rd Jab (A, A, A)

Hit: 38-40 (With 10 frames Hitlag)
End: 77 (With 15 frames Hitlag)
IASA: 72 (With 15 frames Hitlag)

Forward Tilt (F-tilt) - This move is fairly slow for a tilt and there are no setups for it that can’t be shielded so f-tilt is going to be used sparingly. F-tilts best uses are when your opponent is coming down and you punish their air-dodge. This situation can be found sometimes when your opponent is on the ledge and he ledge-hop-> air-dodges. He will be there, ready to eat your f-tilt.

Ftilt
Hit: 17-19
End: 58
IASA: 56

Upward Tilt (U-tilt) - Up tilt is Ike’s best tilt, though that isn’t saying much. It has kill potential and on floaty characters, jab-u-tilt can take them by surprise, but it is dependent on their DI. Against Wario this move is great if you manage to a grab off at high percents. If you do a air-release on Wario, U-tilt is guarenteed. Ryko has mentioned that jab->turnaround->u-tilt is a good way to punish excessive roller, but this is very situational. U-tilt can also be uses to punish air-dodges. U-tilt sweet spots on the blade, and won’t ever sweet spot on the hands.

Utilt
Hit: 13-__
End: 50
IASA: 50

Downward Tilt (D-tilt) - D-tilt on stage is by far one of Ike’s most useless and obvious moves to see coming, so its ability to be effective on stage is nowhere to be found, hehe. When your opponent is recovering to the ledge and you d-tilt them, you can spike them hard into the bottom blast zone. This is best used for characters recoveries that don’t sweet spot the ledge, or take a while to grab the ledge like Zelda’s and Sheik’s (if done incorrectly) and Metaknight’s Drill if done too close to the ledge. Using this move excessively will get you punished and there are much better options most of the time. Since there are no reliable set ups into D-tilt, most hits landed with it, are because of your opponents error.

Dtilt
Hit: 16-17
End: 64
IASA: 55

Neutral Air (N-air) - Neutral Air is one of Ike’s best moves and arguably his best aerial. It is packed with IASA (Interruptible as soon as) frames so it gives very little landing lag making Ike’s options after a successful hit very rewarding. N-air to Jab-Combo (AAA) is one of Ike’s bread-and-butter combos at low-mid percents and definitely is a good way to rack up some damage. N-air to Back Air (B-air) works on certain characters (Weight and DI dependent) at low-mid percents. N-air can be punishable when you hit the shield of your opponent and you may get grabbed or eat an attack, so try to space this move well when using it as an approach. Using N-air in the same spot you are in or retreating definitely decreases the chance that you will get punished. A retreating n-air can also be used effectively for punished a poorly spaced approach by your opponent.

Nair
Hit: 15-28
End: 76
Landing: 18
IASA: 13

Forward Air (F-air) - Ike’s Forward Air has the farthest range of his aerials and can really be effective if spaced well. F-air is not nearly as rewarding as n-air because it doesn’t lead into anything and it can also be punished if spaced poorly. F-air does excel when you are in a position that forces your opponent to approach. Zoning well gives you an edge in this situation because of F-air’s great range. F-air outranges most other approach options from other characters, but because of its slow start-up time, fast attacks can hit you before your f-air lands. You can use retreating F-airs or F-airs in the same spot, to punish characters with less range or faulty approach options. This move also as kill potential!

Fair
Hit: 18-21
End: 60
Landing: 30
IASA: 22

Downward Air (D-air) - The Ike Spike. This move is by far the most rewarding move to inflict on your opponent with, especially when it is too the depths of the bottom blast zone. D-air auto-cancels with a full hop. D-air can also be very effective with attack-stick(Have attacks set to your C-stick in place of smash attacks.) If you have attack-stick enabled you do not auto-fast fall you d-airs, so if an opponent is recovering from below the stage, you can do a “walk off D-air” and send him spiraling down to the bottom blast zone. Though very rewarding, you will find yourself rarely using this move because it is very difficult to connect with. Most characters have way to not recover in a place where you can “walk off d-air” them, and using this on the stage can and will get you punished. Use D-air sparingly, but when the time is right, you will know what to do.

*If you have Attack set to C-stick, you will not be able to optimize your SDI. (Smash Directional Influence)


Dair
Hit: 16-30
End: 55
Landing: 40
IASA: 29

Upward Air (U-air) - Ike flails his sword in a circle, maniacally around his head with the intention to kill. This move is not a move you will be using often, but because of its considerable length, it is hard to air dodge and can take a stock off your opponent. U-air is very slow but it lasts very long, so if your are falling onto or near a tall character, a character on a platform, or falling with someone, throwing out an U-air can be very deceiving and hard to avoid. Once again, use this move sparingly. Most of the time, a F-air or N-air would be a better option.

Uair
Hit: 15-33
End: 58
Landing: 27
IASA: 19

Backward Air (B-air) - Bair is another great aerial attack from Ike. If used quickly it auto-cancels in a short hop giving you no landing lag. B-air has some pseudo-setups, like Jab->b-air and Nair-> b-air. These setups can catch your opponent by surprise a couple of times, but with good SDI, they can be easily avoided. B-air is a great killing move as well, so don’t stale it out. It can be done when you fall through platforms, auto-cancelled on the stage, or anyway your heart desires. Because of its speed, it is very useful in these certain situations.

Bair
Hit: 7-8
End: 55
Landing: 31
IASA: 22

**This Frame Data is from Kirk's Thread**

 

[Kirk]

Frame data is slightly out of date, and with the addition of PSA, one can get much more accurate data...

Jab1

Damage: 4
Hit: 3-4
Earliest Jab2: 11
IASA: 17

Jab2

Damage: 5
Hit: 3-4
Earliest Jab3: 7
IASA: 20

Jab3

Damage: 7
Hit: 10-14
IASA: 38

Ftilt

Damage: 15(Apparently there are 2 other hitboxes that do 14 and 13 as well).
Hit: 17-19
IASA: 56

Utilt

---Initial Hitbox---
Damage: 9(hilt) / 12(sword)
Hit: 13-15
---Rest of it---
Damage: 10
Hit: 16-29

IASA: 50

Dtilt

Damage: 14
Hit: 16-17
IASA: 55

Nair

Damage: 9
Hit: 15-32
Landing Lag Window: 8-66
IASA(Landing): 13
IASA(Air): 76

Fair

Damage: 13
Hit: 18-21
Landing Lag Window: 5-44
IASA(Landing): 22
IASA(Air): 60

Bair

Damage: 14
Hit: 7-9
Landing Lag Window: 5-34
IASA(Landing): 22
IASA(Air): 55

Uair

Damage: 14
Hit: 15-31
Landing Lag Window: 9-52
IASA(Landing): 19
IASA(Air): 58

Dair

---Hitbox1(Spike)---
Damage: 16
Hit: 16-17
---Hitbox2(Sourspot)---
Damage: 12
Hit: 18-30

Landing Lag Window: 5-47
IASA(Landing): 29
IASA(Air): 55

Format isn't perfect, but its just a sample. the Landing Lag Window for the aerials means...if you land on the ground within that frame window, you will get the landing lag. If you land before or after the listed frame values, you will land with no lag.

And yes...one can get MUCH more specific...but like I said, it's just a sample.

 

[Palpi]

Good stuff kirk

getting specific is for looooosers haha xD jkkkkk

@F-tilt is that because it is a "3D attack." I heard someone mentioning that, I half payed attention.

 

[XFadingNirvanaX]

I can't wait for the guide. @.@

 

[Slaps]

@F-tilt is that because it is a "3D attack." I heard someone mentioning that, I half payed attention.

Could it possibly be because Ftilt can be angled 3 different ways thus creating 3 different damages? Ftilt upwards, Ftilt forward, Ftilt downwards?

 

[Nysyarc]

Could it possibly be because Ftilt can be angled 3 different ways thus creating 3 different damages? Ftilt upwards, Ftilt forward, Ftilt downwards?

That makes more sense. If that's what it is, we should make note of the properties for each angle of the attack. If that's not what it is... ...?

 

[Kirk]

Could it possibly be because Ftilt can be angled 3 different ways thus creating 3 different damages? Ftilt upwards, Ftilt forward, Ftilt downwards?

No. According to what it says, those particular hitboxes should be like...inside of Ike lol.

As for the angling, all 3 instances are exactly same, except for the animations, of course.

 

[Nysyarc]

No. According to what it says, those particular hitboxes should be like...inside of Ike lol.

So basically you'll almost never be using those hitboxes? I mean, I only use Ftilt as a finisher at higher percents and I always try to space it properly... I don't think I've ever used it when someone was directly adjacent to me, nor would that be a good idea when jabs come out faster and deal more damage.

 

[IkeFiend]

I just go all out attack... Which really isn't such a good idea. When the battle starts (particulary a 2-minute or higher battle), I just go along and about, attacking anyone that's close to me and look for kills I can steal... (Ike's meant for that crap, my opinion), by the time about 10 seconds have passed, my damage reaches over 70%. (My brother goes insane with Snake's smash attacks.) =[

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I just go all out attack... Which really isn't such a good idea. When the battle starts (particulary a 2-minute or higher battle), I just go along and about, attacking anyone that's close to me and look for kills I can steal... (Ike's meant for that crap, my opinion), by the time about 10 seconds have passed, my damage reaches over 70%. (My brother goes insane with Snake's smash attacks.) =[

.......Dude, nobody around here plays FFAs or with items. >_>

 

[Teh Brettster]

I'm.. pretty sure it's just another troll. We've had several in the past couple of weeks.