• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Wario is Number Three

V

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
963
I hate wario you can't grab him
That be the point son. If Wario's "terrible weakness" is grab releases, then simply don't get grabbed (easier said than done obviously). If a Wario is good enough at weaving that he can't get grabbed, then it's safe to assume he's good enough to overcome the range issues. So with his two weaknesses covered, what is there to do against a good Wario? You better be good at reading. That's what separates the good from the best. Reading. Which is why M2K continually *****. He adapts and reads like a beast.

I need to get better at adapting. I read people fairly well, but I don't make the necessary adjustments fast enough.
 

TheTomNookster

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Messages
152
Whoo, go Wario! It's nice to see people nodding to the new results. What more can a fat, sexy, mustached man with elven shoes ask for?
 

PhantomX

WarioMan
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
10,683
Location
Round Rock, Texas
I will trust the guy that beat the best MK player in the country.
Haven't I already said a bunch of times that M2K was doing it wrong? His beating an MK that wasn't playing defensive is akin to me beating a D3 that doesn't CG > grab release me.

Not to take anything away from him of course, but MKs shouldn't be playing aggressive vs Wario.
 

PhantomX

WarioMan
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
10,683
Location
Round Rock, Texas
He is, but he's also extremely biased against MK, and one of the fore-runners of the MK-ban cause... so I'd take things he says with respect to him with a grain of salt.
 

PhantomX

WarioMan
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
10,683
Location
Round Rock, Texas
No, but there is a whole thread of vids of Phantom fighting scrubs.
Oh ****... I'm sure the top ranked TX players as well as MalcomM, who's beaten M2K, would like to have a word with you... some random person.

Truth of the matter is you can beat as many people as you want, doens't mean you know jack ****. Infinity was ranked top 5 in TX and didn't even know what buffering was until it was explained to him, so get that **** out of your *** or gtfo.
 

Humpy Thrashabout

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
294
I'm just trying to **** with you, because I watch videos of you (ad nauseum) and I watch videos of Fiction and I just don't think you compare. Sure, you're pretty good. But, if Fiction is adamant that the Wario/MK matchup is that bad I'm more than willing to believe him. Especially considering the way matchups you guys have rated go in wario's favor for everyone but Marth and Peach(?).

Wario is awesome and doesn't have any terrible matchups, but we certainly don't have an advantage over that much of the cast. Certainly not MK.
 

PhantomX

WarioMan
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
10,683
Location
Round Rock, Texas
Yes, he's a better player than me, I've always consented to that... that doesn't mean he has a better understanding of the game than me.

He has, in the past, said more than a handful of things that are incorrect (one of the most ridiculous being to meteor cancel with the bike), and many of his successes in matchups have come from him taking my ideas and concepts and applying them better than myself. I also speak to him much more than any of you guys combined, and I KNOW how biased he is against MK.

I'm done justifying myself, though. I can see WHY he says I'm wasting my breath by posting on the forums.
 

PhantomX

WarioMan
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
10,683
Location
Round Rock, Texas
I'll still be discussing with him. If he's rating it 60:40 b/c he thinks it's likely our hardest matchup (meaning he should have a better ratio vs us than Marth/Peach), I'd be more likely to agree, than meaning he just totally outclasses us or whatever.
 

V

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
963
May I ask what Peach has that makes it 60/40 her favor?
 

ssbbFICTION

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
2,535
When I say MK vs. Wario is 60-40 its because hes OBVIOUSLY worse than marth, peach, ddd. All of those characters are 55-45. MK is worse. I have admitted to Phantom that I am wrong in the past (and you can meteor cancel with the bike if you are spiked by falco at less than 30 or so XD).

The actual matchup ratio may be more around 58:42, but I'm not going to be going around trying to point out things like that, so I'm going with 60-40. The reason is that if he spaces right, a lot of MK's moves are unpunishable as wario. That means that instead of

1. MK hits you
2. No one gets hit
3. You hit MK

the MAJORITY of situations in the matchup look like this:

1. MK hits you
2. No one gets hit


The key is that to have an advantage (or even an even matchup against metaknight), he must be above you in the air. When he is to the right/left of you or he is below you he has a large advantage. Because MK can space you away horizontally with grounded up b and retreated short hop fast fall fairs.

Our only advantage (compared to MK's matchups vs other characters) is that wario is virtually ungimpable by the likes of meta knight. The only problem is....we cant edgeguard or gimp him either. Even though he wont gimp us, chances are he'll be able to get some kind of edgeguard damage on us FAR before we'll be able to get past his ridiculous recovery.

All his moves go through waft -_-

If MK pivot grabs you out of the air or if he can use his super slidy running grab to get you to the edge, he has a garunteed grab release. Out of the grab release he gets a garunteed full power nair, aerial shuttle loop, grounded shuttle loop, or even a buffered fsmash.

Because of Wario's heaviness, MK can juggle you with up airs at low percent into a nair for a garunteed 0-40 or 0-50. M2k does this a lot and I desperately try to smash DI out but to no avail.

No kill moves on MK are garunteed besides maybe fart out of shield if he misses a dair or if you get a lucky powershield on his nair. If you read his up b cancel then you should be able to get a fart or clap as well. Other than that he can just chop you away and avoid your strong moves and can effectively survive up to 150 or beyond every stock.


There are my reasons and I hope you will agree with them.


In Phantom's defense, he really knows his stuff. He's taught me quite a few matchups actually and its definetely helped me out a lot. Sometimes we have disagreements with matchups or tactics, but he is without a doubt a knowledgeable wario ;). If another argument comes up in the future and I have no way to prove my point, and he does, hes probably right.

:D

Time to go back to 3 word posts >_> fiction out.
 

Dekar173

Justice Man
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
3,126
Location
Albuquerque, NM
May I ask what Peach has that makes it 60/40 her favor?
A dress, turnips (sometimes the turnip is a bomb!!!) and she's not obese. These things alone don't make her better than Wario, but when their powers combine! She- is annoying to fight.
 

ssbbFICTION

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
2,535
Its only 55-45 peaches favor lulz. And thats on FD. Its a lot closer to even on most other stages. Peach is just annoying cuz of her super camping, but you can aircamp her too (break the statues on castle siege, get up on the things and start taunting XD)
 

V

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
963
Its only 55-45 peaches favor lulz. And thats on FD. Its a lot closer to even on most other stages. Peach is just annoying cuz of her super camping, but you can aircamp her too (break the statues on castle siege, get up on the things and start taunting XD)
That's much more helpfull than what the guy above said lol. Fiction/Phantom how do you approach Marth?
 

ssbbFICTION

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
2,535
Larry once told me how to fight marth. His advice is really freaking dumb but it works.

"you wait for him to swing his sword and then you hit him."
 

V

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
963
Larry once told me how to fight marth. His advice is really freaking dumb but it works.

"you wait for him to swing his sword and then you hit him."
I might use this as my signature lol.

Do you ever go to Havok's Sunday tournament that DSF goes to? If you do I'd like to do some Wario dittos and learn some stuff. I'm trying to drop Meta Knight and replace him with Marth and Wario so I'm sure this would make you happy =)
 

PhantomX

WarioMan
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
10,683
Location
Round Rock, Texas
I agree with what Fiction said, then, I also think he's slightly more difficult than Marth/Peach.

And it really is like that, you bait Marth to swing and then hit him with an upair/grab, dair, fair poke. Aim to gimp if you get the chance.
 

SuSa

Banned via Administration
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,508
Location
planking while watching anime with Fino
Larry once told me how to fight marth. His advice is really freaking dumb but it works.

"you wait for him to swing his sword and then you hit him."
I don't care what drewk or whatever thinks, I'm using this as my signature.

For Wario, what advice (because he has no internet and I don't want to text the entire Wario guide let alone read it and find all the important threads and such) would you give a beginner?

He knows how to play, he was pretty good in Melee but he's struggling in Brawl a bit. He has few people to Brawl with and he's only recently decided on his main+secondary (Wario+Snake respectfully)

So to help him out, I'd like to text him a few tips. What would you guys tell someone? I know a few of the obvious ones from facing Wario's but I am in no way close to a Wario mains knowledge.
 

ssbbFICTION

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
2,535
@ Susa- I don't usually post this much but I guess I will this once XD.

It was actually yesterday when I came up with this way to describe the optimal wario playstyle (which I'm still working on actually).

You play like Boo from the old Mario games >_>. You slowly get closer and closer to someone, but if they try to start to get closer to you, you move away and make sure they dont hit you. The point of wario is not to get hit while waiting patiently for opportunities to **** half a stock or more.

(Unless you are fighting against Metaknight at which point you'll get one hit and he'll jump away and dair making your 3 minutes trying to find an opening in his playstyle practically useless).
 

SuSa

Banned via Administration
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,508
Location
planking while watching anime with Fino
@ Susa- I don't usually post this much but I guess I will this once XD.

It was actually yesterday when I came up with this way to describe the optimal wario playstyle (which I'm still working on actually).

You play like Boo from the old Mario games >_>. You slowly get closer and closer to someone, but if they try to start to get closer to you, you move away and make sure they dont hit you. The point of wario is not to get hit while waiting patiently for opportunities to **** half a stock or more.

(Unless you are fighting against Metaknight at which point you'll get one hit and he'll jump away and dair making your 3 minutes trying to find an opening in his playstyle practically useless).

Fiction. Pretty soon I'm going to have 500 signatures of just you. That's actually a great way to think about how to play as Wario. lol

I'll be sure to text this to my friend. :p
 

V

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
963
Larry once told me how to fight marth. His advice is really freaking dumb but it works.

"you wait for him to swing his sword and then you hit him."
Hey how do I set this as my signature? I obviously have never had one lol
 

leatherhead93

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
467
Wario has just needs more tourney rep to move up. He has the advantage against snake and doesnt have as many bad matchups.
 

PhantomX

WarioMan
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
10,683
Location
Round Rock, Texas
People just don't bother with Wario b/c it's so much easier to win with Metaknight, or to beat most subpar players with Snake camping, lol.
 

leatherhead93

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
467
Lol Wario can **** almost as hard as Mk just dair spamming. People dont take Wario as serious for some reason. We need to show that he's more than just some aerial spammer! And plus why is Fiction saying Mk is 60:40? I heard this from AIB. Wth it shouldnt be worse than 55:45. But then again he lost to Tyrant and DSF................just i bad day. At least a Wario placed top 10.
 

Zumma

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
45
Location
Finland
Wario won't drop in the tiers.

Just moar rep and he's set. Falco isn't a threat. He's overrated anyway >.>
 
Top Bottom