Wario sucks?

[warionumbah2]

Yesterday, I compared Brawl Wario and SSB4 Wario by playing a match as both. They both went against a Fox, and I beat Fox. I cannot believe, but xzx is right, the Brawl incarnation of Wario is better than SSB4 Wario, why, because that Wario has no problems killing, has a better bike, fart charges up faster, and his F-Smash can kill quickly and has super armor.

Sorry for doubting you, xzx.

Mario Sm4sh vs Mario Brawl - Sm4sh Mario has no jab cancel, percentage per hit is lower.

Falco Sm4sh vs Falco Brawl - Falco Sm4sh has no chain grabs, can't short hop laser, spike is crap, nerfed Up Smash.

Meta Knight Sm4sh vs Brawl Meta Knight - Everything is **** compared to Brawl MK.

Olimar Sm4sh vs Olimar Brawl - Less pikman,less grab range,pretty much lost everything that made him great.

Mr Game and Watch Sm4sh vs Mr Game and Watch Brawl - No longer a glass canon.

News flash a lot of veterans got nerfed the hell out of yet they're fine in this new game(well some of them). Wario is a hell lot better than most characters, watched a video of a Japanese tourney where a Wario although lost to Sheik twice both games were close and his only mistake was him going for Ftilt too soon.

 

[Vengeance_NS]

Gluttony got 2nd at the the French major to Leon and put up great matched and Leon uses ZSS. Wario is good people are not playing him
Properly. I agree with everything reflex said.

 

[mmik]

Bair kills around 120 if you save it. It's pretty easy to land in my short experience with him.

 

[Rakurai]

It's kind of ridiculous how early the fully charged waft can kill, when considering it can KO average weight characters from the center of Final Destination at only 50% or so without rage. It might actually be the second strongest non-counter move in the game (Reverse Warlock Punch obviously being number one).

Once rage gets factored in, 30-40% KOs are very much possible.

 

[mmik]

Wario might be a viable counter pick to c falcon and some other people. I found myself shutting down most of his approaches today in a match online, with bite. Gotta play around more

 

[Vengeance_NS]

Wario might be a viable counter pick to c falcon and some other people. I found myself shutting down most of his approaches today in a match online, with bite. Gotta play around more

He does the same thing to fox and sonic as well. Bite is amazing. Wario is more than just a counter pick character lol.

 

[Rakurai]

I was thinking he might've been decent against Diddy, if not just for the ability to stuff his Monkey Flip with the bite, but after testing it in training, he can only stop the move if it collides with him early on, as the hitbox is so ridiculously disjointed in the later frames that he'll still grab Wario even if he's jumping into his mouth.

That's another thing I'm really hoping gets nerfed about him in the future...

 

[Garlic Wonder]

Meta Knight is GOD in Brawl. And to finish this off, it seems that everyone in Brawl is better than their Sm4sh Counterparts, if they were lucky enough to make it(I'm looking at you Wolf, Snake and Lucas).

 

[GreatDave]

It's strange to read your posts, my impression was that Wario (my second main) were better on Wii U than on Brawl. But I haven't been touching Brawl for more than a year...so I cannot remember properly.
In my opinion, Wario is pretty good...he's a very particular character, but he can be very enjoying to use

 

[Vengeance_NS]

He's very strong. Again my intital impressions where that he sucks but I was still playing a brawl type wario in a new game engine. Once I adapted to how he plays now and saw his strengths as a character I agree with reflex and think he's better in this game than in brawl. He does well against most the cast. I think in the meta he'll keep rising and he'll be a top 10 or 15 character end game. With players like gluttony already placing top 2 at majors he's only going to get better. Also wih the ability to cancel most his landing lag on his SH and FH aerial options he's very dangersous.

 

[GreatDave]

I agree.
Unless I'm gonna play VS the fastest ones (Diddy, Sheik, ZS Samus and so on), with Wario I can have a more offensive style. When I use Falco, instead, I've to be more difensive.

 

[Vengeance_NS]

I agree.
Unless I'm gonna play VS the fastest ones (Diddy, Sheik, ZS Samus and so on), with Wario I can have a more offensive style. When I use Falco, instead, I've to be more difensive.

Wario goes even with Diddy. And I think Shiek and ZSS beat him 6-4 but they are not unwinnable. Depends how you play the Mu.

 

[GreatDave]

A character that I always suffer in a terrible way is that Ness. I've difficulties to fight VS that little guy with Wario and with Falco too. He's my nightmare, more than Diddy...

 

[Vengeance_NS]

A character that I always suffer in a terrible way is that Ness. I've difficulties to fight VS that little guy with Wario and with Falco too. He's my nightmare, more than Diddy...

Ness isn't to bad. Gotta play patient ness has fantastic air normals have to bait and punish him and be patient. Your gonna out live him and waft kills him around 80%. I feel this this is a even MU.

 

[WarioWaft]

Ness isn't to bad. Gotta play patient ness has fantastic air normals have to bait and punish him and be patient. Your gonna out live him and waft kills him around 80%. I feel this this is a even MU.

For PK fire happy Ness I throw bikes at him. Or I chomp his PK fire lol.

His air attacks cancel all of Wario's though. It's super annoying.

 

[xzx]

Okay, thanks for all the replies and thoughts. While I don't disregard Wario's buffs and strength in this game, on the other hand his nerfs and weaknesses cannot be disregarded either. I still believe Brawl Wario (at least per stats) is better, as for now. But to be honest, we have to wait and see how the metagame will evolve. Oh yeah, and one thing too: Just because Wario players have attained good tournament results doesn't mean he will be/are a very good character. Just remember how it went with Brawl Wario too - at first he attained great tournament results, but overtime he slowly fell down the tier list. But keep it going, Wario players. Rep it up!

But as I said, we have to actually see and wait what happens. It's great to see Wario players around the world doing great now. Hope it continues!

 

[GreatDave]

Of course I wont give up with him. No matter what happens, I choose a character 'cause I LOVE that character as...character. And not because he/she is a top tier or not.
So...in Wario I believe.

 

[Vengeance_NS]

Okay, thanks for all the replies and thoughts. While I don't disregard Wario's buffs and strength in this game, on the other hand his nerfs and weaknesses cannot be disregarded either. I still believe Brawl Wario (at least per stats) is better, as for now. But to be honest, we have to wait and see how the metagame will evolve. Oh yeah, and one thing too: Just because Wario players have attained good tournament results doesn't mean he will be/are a very good character. Just remember how it went with Brawl Wario too - at first he attained great tournament results, but overtime he slowly fell down the tier list. But keep it going, Wario players. Rep it up!

But as I said, we have to actually see and wait what happens. It's great to see Wario players around the world doing great now. Hope it continues!

He still stayed top 10 pretty much the games life time. That's considered pretty damn good. If wario in this gsme can stay top 15 in a game of 40+ characters which in m mind he is without a doubt top 15 then that's fantastic.

 

[warionumbah2]

Ness is also predictable, if you touch 90% and he's in rage he'll fish for grabs.

Okay, thanks for all the replies and thoughts. While I don't disregard Wario's buffs and strength in this game, on the other hand his nerfs and weaknesses cannot be disregarded either. I still believe Brawl Wario (at least per stats) is better, as for now. But to be honest, we have to wait and see how the metagame will evolve. Oh yeah, and one thing too: Just because Wario players have attained good tournament results doesn't mean he will be/are a very good character. Just remember how it went with Brawl Wario too - at first he attained great tournament results, but overtime he slowly fell down the tier list. But keep it going, Wario players. Rep it up!

But as I said, we have to actually see and wait what happens. It's great to see Wario players around the world doing great now. Hope it continues!

Its a fact Brawl Wario is better, a lot of veterans were nerfed from brawl. Reason this Wario is good is because Sm4sh is more balanced no more grab release,no more broken top tiers. The facts you provided were helpful it allowed me to realize Wario's weaknesses and i thank you for that.

Shockingly enough people had high opinions of Wario before his tournament appearance.

 

[Vengeance_NS]

Ness is also predictable, if you touch 90% and he's in rage he'll fish for grabs.


Its a fact Brawl Wario is better, a lot of veterans were nerfed from brawl. Reason this Wario is good is because Sm4sh is more balanced no more grab release,no more broken top tiers. The facts you provided were helpful it allowed me to realize Wario's weaknesses and i thank you for that.

Shockingly enough people had high opinions of Wario before his tournament appearance.

Right but you have to look at overall system changes and mechanics and how they effect a character when determining how strong and which game he is stronger in. I'm not denying brawl wario had better dair nair upair and other things but this smash 4 wario benefits from things u mentioned with no grab release chain grabs. Waft easier to land because of landing lag bike is better. This wario def benefits from the game changes plus the fact he has almost zero landing lag on his aerials if you know how to use them on first frame make him incredibly dangerous. Well just have to wait and see. Well have to keep our eyes on gluttony and other top warios but it's up to us to help him develope on the meta and come up with new ideas and strats to show how strong he can be.

 

[warionumbah2]

Right but you have to look at overall system changes and mechanics and how they effect a character when determining how strong and which game he is stronger in. I'm not denying brawl wario had better dair nair upair and other things but this smash 4 wario benefits from things u mentioned with no grab release chain grabs. Waft easier to land because of landing lag bike is better. This wario def benefits from the game changes plus the fact he has almost zero landing lag on his aerials if you know how to use them on first frame make him incredibly dangerous. Well just have to wait and see. Well have to keep our eyes on gluttony and other top warios but it's up to us to help him develope on the meta and come up with new ideas and strats to show how strong he can be.

Hopefully we see more Wario but sadly Sm4sh is overpopulated with Sheik and Diddy(main or secondary). Thankfully Wario has been buffed more than nerfed thanks to the game mechanics and he can go toe to toe with high tiers(except Sheik).

 

[Vengeance_NS]

Hopefully we see more Wario but sadly Sm4sh is overpopulated with Sheik and Diddy(main or secondary). Thankfully Wario has been buffed more than nerfed thanks to the game mechanics and he can go toe to toe with high tiers(except Sheik).

Alot of people think he's even wih sheik I however do not.

 

[GreatDave]

The problem is...many people choose a character just because he/she is a top tier and not because they LIKE THE CHARACTER...I cannot believe that suddenly so many people love Diddy or Sheik.

 

[Grizzmeister]

Wario makes me laugh and is extremely fun to use so I'm gonna stick with him. I use him as my main in Mario Kart 8 too, BTW. In Sm4sh it's just so satisfying pulling out a victory in FG 1-on-1 with a perfectly timed Waft that I can't give up on Wario despite the fact that I'm much more successful with Mario or even Luigi.

My opinion is that Wario is a better character in FFA Smash and Team Smash as his Bike is much more viable in those scenarios. In 1-on-1 the Bike move is too easy to avoid or punish and even when I connect with it two or three times it doesn't rack up enough damage given the risk/reward tradeoffs of the move.

Oh, I'm not a competitive player aside from the fact that I love all the SSB games and put intense effort in to every match I enter. While I like all the Smash games, as suggested by the picture from my collection below, the newest on the Wii U is far-and-away my favorite.

 

[GreatDave]

Wario is really fun to use, you're right! He has always been my favourite videogame character ever. He's my MarioKart main since MarioKart 64, and winning a For Glory match with a sweetspotted fart...yeah man, it's damn great!

 

[Micaelis]

I spent all that time in the "Pros and Cons" thread saying the same thing Reflex said here but possibly in a less elegant way. Oh well.

Overall, everyone should stop directly comparing Brawl Wario to Sm4sh Wario as the game mechanics between the two are very different. It's unfair to compare.

 

[Sachmoo]

New here.

Its funny reading from the beginning of this thread to the end. It pretty much sums up my wiiU experience with Wario. Picked him day 1, played 2 matches (against CPU) and dropped him as my main. Thought he was garbage. A few weeks later, Im playing For Glory, and there he is, staring me in my face. So i pick him expecting to get dusted, and i ended up retooling my game on the fly, and winning. If your using THIS Wario efficiently, you are using him much differently than the Brawl Version. Doesn't make him worse, just different. Simple as that.

 

[mmik]

How was old wario used exactly that makes him so different?

 

[Rakurai]

Brawl Wario had crazy aerial mobility that allowed you to weave in and of your opponent's range to bait attacks, and his airgame was stronger, due to larger hitboxes, lower lag, and higher knockback in the case of uair.

Smash 4 Wario has significantly lower aerial acceleration, which makes the aforementioned tactic not really viable anymore, but the improved bite and bike offer him alternative methods to pressure and mindgame opponents. His ground game is also stronger due to his tilts being faster and up/down smash not being totally garbage anymore.

 

[mmik]

That's kind of how I play him now though... Hmm... Also I'm not that great as wario.

 

[PCHU]

Gluttony got 2nd at the the French major to Leon and put up great matched and Leon uses ZSS. Wario is good people are not playing him
Properly. I agree with everything reflex said.

Are there any videos of this?
I always loved watching him, and Wario's pretty much the only thing keeping me interested in this game.

 

[mmik]

Really? You don't care for anyone else?

 

[PCHU]

Really? You don't care for anyone else?

A lot of characters come off as a lot less versatile than they used to be and just not as fun in general.
My main is actually Dedede, but I usually have a good time when I pick Wario, even though I prefer his Brawl iteration.
I really like his mobility and general "balanced" feel (he's got strengths, but they aren't overbearing enough to where they irritate anyone), not to mention bite is still a fantastic move.

 

[mmik]

Well have you given any attention to any newcomers, then? I personally love villager and pac man. I think pac man is more versatile of the two, but villager is easier to use.

 

[PCHU]

Well have you given any attention to any newcomers, then? I personally love villager and pac man. I think pac man is more versatile of the two, but villager is easier to use.

I don't really like Villager's style, and I don't really enjoy the character of Pac-Man, even though he's got some really interesting moves and he's not half bad (I'm much the same way with Pit -- he's a fine character, I just don't like HIM).

I've gone around and figured out what interests me, and Wario's pretty much it.
Fox is pretty easy to use in this game; it's kinda like a watered down Melee Fox, so I can actually use him similarly to how I do in Melee; in contrast, Falco plays nothing like his Melee incarnation, but I find myself enjoying him more than Fox in this game.
Still, I appreciate Wario's all-over-the-place style and general moveset; I like having the option to play something slightly resembling rushdown and have aerials I can actually space with.

Despite my issues with this game, Wario keeps bringing me back and making me laugh, so of course I'm sticking with him.
He ain't what he used to be and that's a little sad (the only thing that I like that didn't get changed much was bite), but he still works relatively well and I'm happy to see people are putting in work with him.

 

[mmik]

Fair enough. I didn't care for pac man at first, either. He kind of had to grow on me in the ssb universe, since I never liked pacman games growing up. Too stressful I guess.

 

[elmike]

The problem is...many people choose a character just because he/she is a top tier and not because they LIKE THE CHARACTER...I cannot believe that suddenly so many people love Diddy or Sheik.

sheik is fun to use but wario is hilarious!

 

[Grizzmeister]

sheik is fun to use but wario is hilarious!

I know, right. I always giggle like a 9 year old Japanese school girl when I play as Wario.

 

[PCHU]

I know, right. I always giggle like a 9 year old Japanese school girl when I play as Wario.

I think my favorite part about him is Bite.
I'd say it's one of the best B moves in the entire game (holdable AIR grab with pummel that also has healing potential and absorbs projectiles), not to mention it's just fun to use.
One of my favorite strategies is just standing there, waiting for someone to challenge it, and watching them get sucked into it.
Another thing is the various Wariocide setups; those never get old.

 

[Vengeance_NS]

Reflex is on stream at kit destroying with his wario. He beat a sonic/fox player so easily he made the fox MU look like a joke lol. Man I need to learn from this. They were saying on stream how wario is high tier and most likely top 10 and no one plays him yet... Hopefully reflex puts wario on the map in NA. I feel the same way.