RTF
Smash Lord
I never tried to "disprove" anything. Enjoy your ****ty reading comprehension. Did you read my post at all? Or watch the videos I linked?
Says who? You? You wish everyone cared what you had to say.
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WARNING CHALLENGER APPROACHING! 2 at RIT
- Thread starter Slashy
- Start date
Evilagram
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2007
- Messages
- 420
I have told you the type of argument you would need to make to explicitly refute the central points of my arguments. If you cannot do so, they stand.
If you think a game that is balanced, strategic, and fun to watch isn't the criteria that defines if it is suited for tournament play, then please inform me what is.
I know that you care what I say, and regardless of anyone caring, I've made a substantial case for why I am right and no one has bothered to disprove it.
RTF
Smash Lord
I prefer talking to ****heads like you as little as possible. Your **** arguments can stand exactly as they are - ****. Blocking you 4eva~~~<3
I have told you the type of argument you would need to make to explicitly refute the central points of my arguments. If you cannot do so, they stand.
If you think a game that is balanced, strategic, and fun to watch isn't the criteria that defines if it is suited for tournament play, then please inform me what is.
I know that you care what I say, and regardless of anyone caring, I've made a substantial case for why I am right and no one has bothered to disprove it.
Eaode
Smash Champion
lmao
ITT: people who are good at smash proving they are the worst at civilized debate ever xD
Brawl-'s selling point is that it elevates the power level of the game balance (for an example of high vs low power balance, see Dota 2 vs League of Legends, or MvC2 vs SSBM). It doesn't make things "broken" it makes things a lot more powerful, but the fact that all the options are more powerful means the counter-options are more powerful.
You can't point to an abstract design concept and say that it can't be a serious game... you bear the burden of proof to make such a claim. And no, pointing to personal credentials is not evidence of an otherwise baseless claim...
ITT: people who are good at smash proving they are the worst at civilized debate ever xD
Brawl-'s selling point is that it elevates the power level of the game balance (for an example of high vs low power balance, see Dota 2 vs League of Legends, or MvC2 vs SSBM). It doesn't make things "broken" it makes things a lot more powerful, but the fact that all the options are more powerful means the counter-options are more powerful.
You can't point to an abstract design concept and say that it can't be a serious game... you bear the burden of proof to make such a claim. And no, pointing to personal credentials is not evidence of an otherwise baseless claim...
Eaode
Smash Champion
Also by what logic would doubles have a higher turnout than singles? Especially for a mod that's relatively new, where people need to foray deeper into the singles meta before doubles is a huge thing.
+1 for **** doubles, do P:M singles instead.
+1 for **** doubles, do P:M singles instead.
RTF
Smash Lord
Eaode
Smash Champion
also also also
I lol'd that any COMPETITIVE SUPER SMASH BROS player would EVER use the argument "intended only for casual play"
seriously?
I lol'd that any COMPETITIVE SUPER SMASH BROS player would EVER use the argument "intended only for casual play"
seriously?
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
You just want singles cus you want dat MONAY doe lol
Eaode
Smash Champion
I also just realized the Hyrule Temple:M (the top left section of temple stage) isn't in the legal stage list :/
RTF
Smash Lord
Ok this one I found myself:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080714235855AAGldUx
That last post man I burst out laughing.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080714235855AAGldUx
That last post man I burst out laughing.
Slashy
Smash Lord
I changed it to Project:M singles
RTF
Smash Lord
Looking through this thread...
"This isn't a thread where we argue"
And then makes huge posts.
lawlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
Edit: now bumping with content.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC77OYvvX7E
NSFW/NSFL
"This isn't a thread where we argue"
And then makes huge posts.
lawlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
Edit: now bumping with content.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC77OYvvX7E
NSFW/NSFL
Sharky
Smash Master
IAN ARE YOU GOING TO BE AT THIS/ARE YOU BACK IN ROCHESTER???
hype?
edit: Cuse likely not going to this reguardless cause I don't have enough money atm and there's no brawl.
Silverspawnmaster
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- May 15, 2008
- Messages
- 39
I phase in an out when I can. Now that I have a legit job I guess I can lose a couple bucks.When ian shows up, thats when you know you have a party.i forgot you even existed for a bit there lol
We'll see. I will either be there just in time, or just in time to miss it.
edit: GIT DA *** OVR HEER BOI! There's Yoshi. That's all you need.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
ill play with you sharky, I need someone at least semi legit with to practice with before dustbowl.
Sharky
Smash Master
I also don't think I can get the day off. I'll look into it some
Frank_desu
Smash Cadet
good chance I'll be showing up with a couple people : D
get ready to feel good about yourselves lol...some noobies rollin in from scrub city
get ready to feel good about yourselves lol...some noobies rollin in from scrub city
Inty17
Smash Journeyman
Making a game as broken as possible is supposed to be fun and casual. I'm not gonna enter a tournament where I lose even though I'm smarter than the other player. Plain and simple.
In Melee, a player loses because they're new, dumb, have bad tech skill, or are overall slower than the other player. That's something I can get on board with.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
I was with you until you brought up the being slower part. Which is the main reason I dont play melee like that anymore.
But thats a whole different conversation.
But thats a whole different conversation.
Inty17
Smash Journeyman
Slower mentally as well as technically. You play Ganon...so I guess you have a good point.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
I mean, I play ganon, falco, doc, shiek.
It doesnt really matter who I play, my hands just cant move that fast.
It doesnt really matter who I play, my hands just cant move that fast.
Eaode
Smash Champion
my point was... Developer intent means next to nothing in competitive gaming. And a smash player should know that better than anyone.
I saw johns johns and more johns. (this game is different and I don't know how it works, so when something happens that I'm not familiar with, it's the game's fault and not mine).
Also, for the last time, the point of minus isn't to make the game "broken" (read: unplayable; intentionally unbalanced). Stop hiding behind buzzwords to justify your position.
I'm not a huge fan of minus (and I won't be entering it) but I'm a pretty big fan of consistent and appropriate use of logic.
I saw johns johns and more johns. (this game is different and I don't know how it works, so when something happens that I'm not familiar with, it's the game's fault and not mine).
Also, for the last time, the point of minus isn't to make the game "broken" (read: unplayable; intentionally unbalanced). Stop hiding behind buzzwords to justify your position.
I'm not a huge fan of minus (and I won't be entering it) but I'm a pretty big fan of consistent and appropriate use of logic.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
Why are we still talking about bad games?
Oh, right, cus that all this tournament is...
My fault. Carry on then
Oh, right, cus that all this tournament is...
My fault. Carry on then
flaw
Smash Apprentice
i'm gonna try to make it for melee singles but i have stuff to do in the morning about an hour away and hopefully they let me leave in time
Eaode
Smash Champion
This is the part where the room goes "OOOOHHHHH!!!" right?Why are we still talking about bad games?
Oh, right, cus that all this tournament is...
My fault. Carry on then
Because tossing out insults is so stylish, hard to do, and cool. Especially when no one has yet to prove any of these games are bad with an argument that holds water.
So here you go:
OOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! BUUUUUURRRRRRNNNN!!!!
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
The amount of irony in your statement is reaching critical levels considering the people that you play with.
The fact that i played enough to win money in every single one of slashys tournaments ever, is all the evidence i need to know that the conceptualization of all the brawl physics hacks are bad, but if you dont want to listen to the guy with all the experience, and a better understand of smash than... Everyone here, thats yalls perogative.
The fact that i played enough to win money in every single one of slashys tournaments ever, is all the evidence i need to know that the conceptualization of all the brawl physics hacks are bad, but if you dont want to listen to the guy with all the experience, and a better understand of smash than... Everyone here, thats yalls perogative.
Eaode
Smash Champion
what irony? I said back up your claim...
>This game is bad
- Can you tell me why?
>It is. it has this design principle.
- Can you prove why that's bad?
>Listen to me, because I have x, y, and qualification
- But what's the actual reason?
Those qualifications tell me you should know what you're talking about but you won't prove the reason behind your claim... you just point to the qualifications again.
That's like coming into a job interview and showing your impressive credentials, getting the job, and then showing up for work and doing nothing.
You've given me evidence that you should know why you claim what you do, but you never give the actual reason. And there are very few (if any) things in life I'm willing to accept based on blind faith in someone's credibility.
>This game is bad
- Can you tell me why?
>It is. it has this design principle.
- Can you prove why that's bad?
>Listen to me, because I have x, y, and qualification
- But what's the actual reason?
Those qualifications tell me you should know what you're talking about but you won't prove the reason behind your claim... you just point to the qualifications again.
That's like coming into a job interview and showing your impressive credentials, getting the job, and then showing up for work and doing nothing.
You've given me evidence that you should know why you claim what you do, but you never give the actual reason. And there are very few (if any) things in life I'm willing to accept based on blind faith in someone's credibility.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
Ill tell you in person. Alot of stuff i dont feel like typing.
Also, that analogy is really bad.
Also, that analogy is really bad.
RTF
Smash Lord
This is the sole reason why I can't stand StarCraft2 ladder. I can make all of the right decisions, but I'm too slow right now to make it count (meaning I have less units than someone who is faster).
Yet you're the fastest masher evar?
You made a claim and your evidence is an open ended assumption?
Please explain. I'm a fan of discussion rather than argument. I genuinely want to know what you think "developer intent" is in a variety of competitive games.
Compare and contrast The original Starcraft with it's expansion, BroodWar. Vanilla StarCraft was literally broken - some unit compositions could not be beaten in some matchups (so should we define "broken" as uncounterable?). 7months (iirc) later, the BroodWar expansion came out and rebalanced the game by introducing counters to the "broken" unit compositions. "Developer intent"? They waited for the metagame to develop and applied huge fixes via an expansion and continued to fix small issues via patches over several years. They created one of the best competitive games ever purely by intending to make a "good" game.
Starcraft 2 is a different story that isn't even close to being finished.
Smash can be a very small world. I consider the competitive success of smash to be a very happy accident.
NO, YOU!
Inty17
Smash Journeyman
RTF
Smash Lord
ITT GENERALIZATIONS.
Here's my gold star for being so awesome and being so cool. And so serious and pedantic.
Edit: extra <3 for all the support. like comment friend subscribe please.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
Im about to unfriend you on facebook, just so i can friend you again
Eaode
Smash Champion
Okay okay, hold the presses. Thanks for asking for me to back that up, although I didn't expect anyone to argue against the developer intent point
But I believe we have a misunderstanding, as I see from the example you chose. Obviously devs intend to make good games. There's nothing at issue there.
What I'm saying is that you can't just say "you can't play a game this way because the developers didn't intend you to" because The developers didn't intend for us to do a lot of the things we do (and frankly should be able to)
Smash is intended to be a party game. it's not intended to be a serious tournament game, and we were not intended to abuse and exploit game mechanics to the point that we have. The point I'm making here is that it doesn't matter what one person or group of people "intend" something to be; that something, in the end, is what it is.
This is why I said smashers should understand this concept more than anyone, because we've been given **** for years from other fighting game communities for playing a party game. A Brawl player should know this better than anyone, as brawl devs intentionally pulled out a slew of advanced techniques (the scapegoat representing "competitive play") and even stuck in a few middle fingers to competitive players (e.g. Tripping).
And notice I'm not arguing that you shouldn't play Brawl competitively. By all accounts, nintendo did not intend Brawl to be a competitive fighter. But what you realize is that you don't care what they intended, because in the end, if Brawl stands up as a competitively viable game (which it does), then it deserves to be played competitively. I'm trying to get the people arguing developer intent against things like P:M or B- to realize that the same reasoning applies here, and developer intent has jack **** to do with how the consumers should play the game they are given.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
im pretty sure no develop intends for someone to hack their game and change it into something completely different then the game that was shipped out to stores
RTF
Smash Lord
I'm pretty sure you meant this when you tried to clarify a few posts back:
"Initial developer intent is meaningless to the evolving metagame in competitive gaming."
Which I totally agree with.
Inty17
Smash Journeyman
So this tournament. I like it now.
flaw
Smash Apprentice
lots of pc devs go to great lengths to support the mod community, heard of counter-strike?
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
Pc games dont get shipped to stores anymore. Thats what steam is for silly!
And apparently i have a new reason to hate project M now.
I let Jesse, Foy and Nightro borrow my Wii. I got it back two days ago. Yesterday i turn my wii on, redo my internet settings. Put my copy of brawl in and:
"An error has occured. Press the eject button and remove the disc, then turn the Wii console off and refer to the Wii Operation Manual for troubleshooting"
Im going to absolutely flip my sht, if Project MotherFk this game bricked my Wii.
And apparently i have a new reason to hate project M now.
I let Jesse, Foy and Nightro borrow my Wii. I got it back two days ago. Yesterday i turn my wii on, redo my internet settings. Put my copy of brawl in and:
"An error has occured. Press the eject button and remove the disc, then turn the Wii console off and refer to the Wii Operation Manual for troubleshooting"
Im going to absolutely flip my sht, if Project MotherFk this game bricked my Wii.
Inty17
Smash Journeyman
What goes into that apartment never comes out the same.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
Like, i broke foys controller back in the day, and i know they break other peoples stuff in that apt constantly so im sad, but im not surprised. Just tha fact that i mysteriously hear about them playing project made for ***s on it right before i find out its broken is what really burns me up