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Wavedashing in Brawl... (Hacked version)

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Revven

FrankerZ
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and ive done an airdodge with rob and all he did was freeze in a standing position and blink then i landed and was able to continue playing but when i tried again it froze, just saying that it is probably possible to fix the freeze thing with rob
PW (Phantom Wings) said he's going to fix this along with the issues with transformation characters and ICs. It's a known issue and he's going to fix it. Unless, it already has been fixed and he updated the code. Meh... try this anyway and see if there's any difference. Reason I say try it is because the post he made with the code wa edited at 11:05 AM and I recall him saying he updated it.

SSBM Air Dodge (Phantom Wings)
80000000 80623320
80000001 00000000
60000006 00000000
80000002 806212BC
4A001000 00000000
36000024 00000007
92210003 00000024
86100003 000001C4
88000002 00000003
4A001002 00000000
92210002 00000000
4A001002 00000000
DE000000 80008180
92210003 00000010
92210004 00000014
86A00003 40000000
86A00004 3FE00000
60000003 00000001
4A001000 00000000
4A101001 00000000
36000000 00000032
58010000 00000004
DE000000 80008180
58010000 00000060
92210006 0000007C
92210007 00000014
9221000A 00000018
58010000 00000088
92210008 00000058
92210009 00000064
4A001006 00000000
30000038 00000021
4A001007 00000000
36000040 41C00000
4A001008 00000000
1400000C 3E300000
4A001007 00000000
36000041 41000000
4A00100A 00000000
92210005 00000010
88900005 00000004
94210005 00000010
4A001009 00000000
94210003 00000008
4A001007 00000000
34000041 41000000
4A001009 00000000
14000008 00000000
E2000002 00000000
80100001 00000008
62000000 00000001
E200000F 00000000
80000001 00000000
80100000 00000244
62000000 00000000
4A000000 8077F780
D2000000 00000006
2C030000 41820010
2C1C000E 40820014
819E0038 2C0C0021
40820008 3B800010
60000000 939E0038
60000000 00000000
 

ChronoPenguin

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Also anyone who thinks Wavedashing gives ANY ounce of balance to brawl....pfft.

Regardless of your SBR, Tourney organizer, Average joe, WTF would make you think that?

If you wanted to Balance brawl you would have to INDIVIDUALLY tweak characters not give EVERYBODY the same bloody thing.

It's like some of you forgot what BALANCE is.
Your talking more about Tech skill in where you can

Wavedash into this, or do this into a wavedash.
Thats not balance thats tech skill.
If you wanted tech skill there are STILL some characters in brawl who can give you some of that, maybe not the extent you believe melee gave you, but there are characters who can give you some of that feel.

Now your hoping that adding something like wavedash balances characters? Certain characters are so screwed if the AD works exactly like melee.

Yoshi,Ness and Lucas Love to DJAD, it's a good little "technique" that increases there lifespan and makes recovering safer for them.


Heh If it was that you could Wavedash without actually screwing peoples recovery, well maybe we'd get somewhere.

Hitstun would be terrible unless you gave it individually to certain characters.

Give Diddy and Metaknight Hitstun? No TY.



If you were going to "Balance" brawl, you focus on characters individually not put some new thing on every character that would obviously benefit some more than others >.> and not really balance anything in particular >.>


That being said I can see how this would be fun for some people. I myself might play with it a bit if I ever get Ocarina, but if this was ever a tournament standard and Smashboards was what advertised it, this site went straight to hell then.


However if Anybody wants to Buff Links Recovery, Im all ears.
If Anyone wants to make the Tether for Samus,Link and Toon Link work like Melee, I'd piss myself and say "Sweet awesome".
Because that would really help Link and Samus especially overall.

If Someone wants to Bring back Links Bomb Jumping, Great Fantastic, you just helped a character who needed that, get that, and THAT would be the kind of stuff that helps balance things.
 

Gimpyfish62

Banned (62 points)
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Edmonds, Washington
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xs_UZM28OI

Here you go, Gimpy and friends. Yeah yeah I make some mistakes but I made the video after less than 10 minutes of practicing. I'd like to think that my wavelanding is really smooth in some parts, hopefully this is what you wanted to see, Gimpy.

By the way, I just played a short round with Pit, someone I don't really use. AND HE IS GODLY

Edit: I apologize for the quality of my videos... I need some real recording equipment. x_x
this is exactly what i wanted

now show us every character LOL
 

Collective of Bears

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So...when we try to go against something, using curse words and exclamation points correctly will neat us free Internets?
Well so far, that post has made more sense than the whole rest of the thread.

All this stuff about Wavedashing is a disguised Melee vs Brawl debate. Everyone's just trying to turn Brawl into Melee, and it's pointless.
 

Revven

FrankerZ
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Yeah, I'm still waiting to see an Earthbounder wavedash.

It boggles the miiiind :crazy:
The video I'm making shows me wavedashing (with some "combos") with everyone... including Ness and Lucas. Ness's and Lucas' wavedashes are GOOD, at least Mario level or above as far as wavedash length goes.
 

Ryan-K

Smash Master
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Staten Island, NY
Well so far, that post has made more sense than the whole rest of the thread.

All this stuff about Wavedashing is a disguised Melee vs Brawl debate. Everyone's just trying to turn Brawl into Melee, and it's pointless.
the melee community wouldn't be so inflammatory if the brawl community wasn't so ignorant.
 

Makkun

Smash Journeyman
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Yeah, I'm still waiting to see an Earthbounder wavedash.

It boggles the miiiind :crazy:
I played Lucas (whom I love) for a few minutes, and I saw a TON of potential. Imagine wavedashing into an up or downsmash... wow. Although his slide isn't THAT long, it still helps a lot.

Edit: According to Falco400, the Earthbounders have long wavedashes, and since I tried out Lucas when I first started, I was probably just doing it wrong. :3 EVEN BETTER
 

Dav657

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Originally Posted by Kazydai
I haven't logged on in months and all of a sudden I remember why.

This is just too ********!! This whole Brawl vs. Melee thing needs to stop!!! Yeah, the Melee to Brawl transition has been hard for some, but are all you people really gonna ***** about it THIS much!! I'm competitive and I love BOTH games for what they are and what they each have to offer.

Hell, the 64 to Melee transition was hard, too, for me at least. I rocked in 64, and sucked in Melee, when it first came out. Just going from the 64 controller to the GameCube controller was a *****, but I kept practicing and eventually I became good at Melee, too.

So we've moved from 64 to Melee...why can't we do the same for Brawl? People are just pissed because they feel threatened by new players. Apparently, slow heavyweights like Ike aren't supposed to win fights against Foxes and Shieks.

Whatever.//

Except brawl is shallow. The people deliberately made the game slower and stupider! L-cancel isnt a glitch it is in the game the developers put it in the game. Wave dashing isnt a glitch its just a turnout of the games PHYSICS!

geezz people are soo close minded
 

ChronoPenguin

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......Since theres some hacker geniuses.

I demand (if plausible) a melee Hookshot for Link and Samus (not TL as he doesn't really need it). The fun I could have with that =P...

I also demand individual hacks

I'd take a hitstun hack easy as long as it wasn't applied to everyone =P.


Actually this Wavedash thing wouldn't bother me either if it just didn't apply to some characters >.>
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

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So...when we try to go against something, using curse words and exclamation points correctly will neat us free Internets?

And Solid, we know this really won't affect anything. Heck, Ice Climbers have one of the sexiest wavedashes but Popo gets so desync'd by it I feel it will either give ICs more possibilities, or just make WDing for them a desync process rather than mobility.

But we all know this is for fun. Making this the standard is asking for suicide lol.

Anyone know why a 167 MB video takes a day-break and beyond to finish? <_<
Ya Viet, I completely agree that everyone knows this won't affect anything competitively, but it is getting so hyped and people are making a huge deal out of it, but it really isn't a big deal, that's what I'm trying to say if that makes more sense.
 

mentosman8

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Interestingly, in my brief time messing around with this in training mode, the computer has, several times, airdodged to get back on the stage. I know it's just a fluke with programming most likely, but they've also seemed more conservative about air dodging off the stage

Edit: On second glance, when I bumped them up to level 9 they still air dodge right after being hit, which does give them a better chance many times, but definitely not as wise as it looked like somewhat lower-levels were using them
 

The MC Clusky

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I don't think a lot of people here are understanding the real balance implications of this. Wavedashing isn't even important compared to the new airdodging mechanic.

Mmac raised an excellent point with Yoshi's recovery being screwed. Ness gets screwed in a similar way. Screwing Ness and Yoshi sounds like what Brawl needs to me.

The very long landing animations make airdoding in the air ever hopelessly unsafe for some characters (Luigi and DK mostly). So if Meta Knight or Mr. Game & Watch or someone happens to be pursuing them in the air, they now have zero options to defend themselves.

Did you think Mr. Game & Watch's juggling with his up aerial was obnoxious before? Have fun with it now; it's 50x better. Airdodging through it was a really important option for some characters, and now that's really unsafe to try. In fact, Mr. Game & Watch might be able to keep someone like DK in the air forever. He'd definitely be a way better character, and he's already top tier...

Ice Climbers having wavedashing makes landing grabs with them much easier, and remember it's a lot more practical in brawl to do their infinites than in melee once you land that grab (wavedashing might even give them more variations!). Assuming the fixed version doesn't cause an auto-desynch, they are probably completely broken so you wil think Meta Knight and Captain Falcon in standard brawl are practically on the same tier.

I don't understand why people are saying this should be used in any competitive sense at all as long as you can lock the game trivially with R.O.B.. If you want to move past just messing around, that lock-up is obviously completely unacceptable (not that this should ever move past just messing around anyway).

Have a whole lot of fun dealing with Pit arrow spam in the air when airdodging isn't a viable evasive option. How are you actually supposed to recover past a really smart and really good at aiming Pit with this airdodge mechanic?

As per some other suggestions:

L-Canceling - Is landing lag really too long in brawl? Last I checked it wasn't especially longer than in melee. Cutting it in half would give birth to smash 64 style gameplay more than melee style gameplay; how do you plan to handle Meta Knight doing short hop L-cancel aerials? How about Luigi? Any aerial that already didn't have much landing lag and has a nice hitbox is going to be really stupid with this, and I see absolutely no reason to add in having to press L anyway. If you want to cut lag in half, just do it always and don't require the button push (having to push the button adds in a completely non-skill and is strictly inferior to not having to push it).

Removing the delay from ledge actions would just make ledgestalling better; do you want that? Fox, Falco, and Bowser had infinite ledgestalls in melee if you were frame perfect if you recall, and I'm pretty sure smart ledgestalling was far more dangerous than it ever got explored for. Brawl fixed it... and you want to break it again?

More hitstun is just going to make the top guys better. Meta Knight is the obvious case. How about Mr. Game & Watch? Wouldn't it be so cool if the only way to escape the turtle -> turtle combo was smash DI and he could use air control and good spacing to chain them together in long series or to try to force you into a fishbowl? Maybe the Ice Climbers could exploit it to have an easier time landing grabs so they could be even more broken on top of the wavedashing? Wouldn't it be so much easier to camp with King Dedede if your random pokes kept them pinned down for longer? Some of the guys at the bottom would like this, but in general, it would favor the top.

"auto-sweetspotting" is really just brawl having more generous ledge detection which is a good thing. It was way easier for some characters to grab the ledge in melee than others, and it was pretty silly. It was especially bad if you tried to grab it without doing a B move like Jigglypuff usually liked to do; the detection area was stupidly small.

Brawl's balance really isn't bad, but the changes you people want would completely kill it. It's ridiculous how you get mad at anyone who speaks negatively of this, but they're just being realists and saying things that need to be said (if you can't see the myriad problems with using a hacked game in a tournament, you probably just aren't looking very hard).

That being said, this could be pretty fun for messing around. Codes that anyone could use to easily change the base damage, base knockback, and knockback scaling factor of arbitrary moves on top of a few other codes could be pretty cool in letting individuals use Ocarina to create their own fun "custom brawl" games. Of course, they'd have to understand that it's just not practical to try to move past the "just for fun" side of things.
Was someone seriously complaining about game and watch juggling with Up B?

That has to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Along with complaints about not having options if you're pursued into the air.

Obviously someone doesn't know how to DI but lot's about mashing one button to escape something.:dizzy:

And wavedash to spotdodge? That's a pretty good way to get around projectiles.

I could go on, but I'm tired.

God, people and their crazy superstitions.

Brawl isn't a religion guys, and if it was it'd be a pretty silly one.
 

ChronoPenguin

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Interestingly, in my brief time messing around with this in training mode, the computer has, several times, airdodged to get back on the stage. I know it's just a fluke with programming most likely, but they've also seemed more conservative about air dodging off the stage
Since when do computers Air dodge off the stage in the first place?
 

Zodiac

Smash Master
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Messages
3,557
Take that, Melee douches.

Have we hacked for hitstun yet?
Who's the one excited for wavedashing in brawl. and if you want to bring THAT point up then let me say. Wavedashing in brawl only makes the mobility a bit faster, hell, with some a LOT faster. but it still has a bunch of problems, hitstun, shield strength, broken characters, all huge problems.

But yeeeaz! Wavedashing in brawl this will be fun

Originally Posted by Kazydai
So we've moved from 64 to Melee...why can't we do the same for Brawl? People are just pissed because they feel threatened by new players. Apparently, slow heavyweights like Ike aren't supposed to win fights against Foxes and Shieks.
No were just pissed cause brawl sucked and we were sad.
 

Makkun

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Since when do computers Air dodge off the stage in the first place?
Every time I play a match against a computer, they generally are killing themselves from air dodging. Whether it's them using it while being knocked back or using it when coming back to the stage instead of Up-B.
 

Ryan-K

Smash Master
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i think he means air dodging while they are off the stage to avoid attacks since they generally dodge any attacks if they can
 

nightSN

Smash Ace
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omg i think the game looks faster now. LOL and it seems everyones wavedash is atless decent+ : D
this is no longer brawl or melee. we should make a new name for it now! : D LOL i suggest... Super Smash Brothers Pro
 

Problem2

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PW (Phantom Wings) said he's going to fix this along with the issues with transformation characters and ICs. It's a known issue and he's going to fix it. Unless, it already has been fixed and he updated the code. Meh... try this anyway and see if there's any difference. Reason I say try it is because the post he made with the code wa edited at 11:05 AM and I recall him saying he updated it.

SSBM Air Dodge (Phantom Wings)
80000000 80623320
80000001 00000000
60000006 00000000
80000002 806212BC
4A001000 00000000
36000024 00000007
92210003 00000024
86100003 000001C4
88000002 00000003
4A001002 00000000
92210002 00000000
4A001002 00000000
DE000000 80008180
92210003 00000010
92210004 00000014
86A00003 40000000
86A00004 3FE00000
60000003 00000001
4A001000 00000000
4A101001 00000000
36000000 00000032
58010000 00000004
DE000000 80008180
58010000 00000060
92210006 0000007C
92210007 00000014
9221000A 00000018
58010000 00000088
92210008 00000058
92210009 00000064
4A001006 00000000
30000038 00000021
4A001007 00000000
36000040 41C00000
4A001008 00000000
1400000C 3E300000
4A001007 00000000
36000041 41000000
4A00100A 00000000
92210005 00000010
88900005 00000004
94210005 00000010
4A001009 00000000
94210003 00000008
4A001007 00000000
34000041 41000000
4A001009 00000000
14000008 00000000
E2000002 00000000
80100001 00000008
62000000 00000001
E200000F 00000000
80000001 00000000
80100000 00000244
62000000 00000000
4A000000 8077F780
D2000000 00000006
2C030000 41820010
2C1C000E 40820014
819E0038 2C0C0021
40820008 3B800010
60000000 939E0038
60000000 00000000
You can swap movesets between characters with homebrew right? Maybe you can set a different character's falling after up-b animation to R.O.B.'s dodge. That or create an exception in the code that let's ROB keep the normal airdodge.
 

ChronoPenguin

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Not even this can fix the mess that is Brawl.
This attitude is so terrible.

Wavedashing didn't "fix" melee.

Wavedashing was great for mind games and such but Fox could also take advantage of it, and if I remember correctly a couple of characters got a real kick out of it, while some other characters benefitted very little from it.

Wavedash didn't Balance melee from my standpoint so how can anyone actually utter this sentence in the ideas that Wavedashing would balance anything period?


Im quite aware melee users are educated about a metagame and can be decent or great people.
But this attitude is terrible.
 

mentosman8

BRoomer
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Yeah on testing with higher level computers they just kill themselves 90% of the time airdodging in hitstun... Which leads me to a question, has anyone tried going online with this code on both sides to see if it holds? Most of my friends who play Smash are off at college right now, and with the comp being ******** I won't be able to get much out of this in actual gameplay if it doesn't
 

infernovia

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
675
Was someone seriously complaining about game and watch juggling with Up B?

That has to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Along with complaints about not having options if you're pursued into the air.

Obviously someone doesn't know how to DI but lot's about mashing one button to escape something.:dizzy:

And wavedash to spotdodge? That's a pretty good way to get around projectiles.

I could go on, but I'm tired.

God, people and their crazy superstitions.

Brawl isn't a religion guys, and if it was it'd be a pretty silly one.
I don't think you understand how good g and w can juggle with his uair alone.
 

Red Exodus

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 7, 2006
Messages
4,494
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Hell
This attitude is so terrible.

Wavedashing didn't "fix" melee.

Wavedashing was great for mind games and such but Fox could also take advantage of it, and if I remember correctly a couple of characters got a real kick out of it, while some other characters benefitted very little from it.

Wavedash didn't Balance melee from my standpoint so how can anyone actually utter this sentence in the ideas that Wavedashing would balance anything period?


Im quite aware melee users are educated about a metagame and can be decent or great people.
But this attitude is terrible.
I don't recall saying WDing fixed Melee.
 

ChronoPenguin

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*continues to rant about bad attitudes and how individually applied hacks are 1000 times better for balancing a game then putting a universal patch that can widen the gap between some characters and closen it between others, while the closen effect is nice the widening aspect is bad.
 

tarman727

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The brawl vs melee war is ********. Both sides are ignorant. Both games have there ups and downs. Melee has its competitiveness through techniques that people found out over time. Brawl might have the same thing happen. Brawl does not have everything melee has, and melee doesn't have everything brawl has. GET OVER IT. They are 2 different games, both with ups and downs. Nintendo has been "stereotyped" the "Casual" console for a reason. They are supposed to be fun games, while friendly competition is great, having it become an over obsessive life style is going to far. They are just games, no matter how fun, or different, or casual each one is, they are both 10/10 games. Now get back on topic about wavedashing and be nice :) I may not be the "competitive" brawler or melee'r, but maybe that helps my standpoint on this.
 

Kazydai

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Wavedashing wasn't meant to be in Melee. Brawl fixed that. I think people just jump on the "Brawl Sucks" bandwagon like they jump on the "Windows Vista Sucks" bandwagon.

Yeah, Vista sucks, but Brawl needs to be given more of a chance. No offense to pros like Gimpy and Simna, but too many people take what they say and treat it likes it's fact. Their not gods, people, they're regular guys like you and I.

And if you think I'm a ranting "n00b" with no skill, I've beaten Simna before, so bleh to you. -_-;
 

ChronoPenguin

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I don't recall saying WDing fixed Melee.
It's all about implication.

Saying it couldn't fix the mess that is brawl implies that it does something but is so insignificant it's basically useless.

Eg.
We are giving in 20 million into the economy to save it (fictional)
not even 20 million dollars could fix the mess that is our economy.

Your either 1) saying the thing is completely useless
b) saying it has use but it's insignificant.

B is a terrible outlook, and A isn't much better (better though) because they both imply that something was in a terrible state.

Brawl isn't in a terrible state, and it's not a mess.
A mess is superman 64.
A mess is CD-I games.
A mess is what you see if you go to my room.
Things are scattered out and it looks terrible.
Brawl isn't like that.
It's just less focused on certain aspects that melee was focused on and has a different physics engine which in turn makes it a different game.

Anyways im dropping this here, I'm going to avoid any melee vs brawl thing if I can help it =P.
 

xeonoex

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Ok, now all we need is

1.5x speed
L canceling
All the other canceling
gravity
Dashdancing
No tripping
Hitstun

and Brawl might be playable.
 

LSDX

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I know this will never be allowed at major tournaments and circuits, but as for side tournaments, it's a slight possibility maybe.
 

Kazydai

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The brawl vs melee war is ********. Both sides are ignorant. Both games have there ups and downs. Melee has its competitiveness through techniques that people found out over time. Brawl might have the same thing happen. Brawl does not have everything melee has, and melee doesn't have everything brawl has. GET OVER IT. They are 2 different games, both with ups and downs. Nintendo has been "stereotyped" the "Casual" console for a reason. They are supposed to be fun games, while friendly competition is great, having it become an over obsessive life style is going to far. They are just games, no matter how fun, or different, or casual each one is, they are both 10/10 games. Now get back on topic about wavedashing and be nice :) I may not be the "competitive" brawler or melee'r, but maybe that helps my standpoint on this.
Thank you. Thank you very much. (No sarcasm there.)
 

unwelc0med

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Messages
419
ghighaodigoashgodsaigoas why would you use final destination with a newly found wavedash.

use battlefield and just waveland around a bunch - that's exactly what i want to see.

can nobody waveland?

there was no application of wavedashing at all in that video it was just wavedash wavedash do exactly the same thing i'd do against computers anyways wavedash wavedash

*sigh* at least there was a wd from ledge
why are you so crazy hyper gimpyyyyyyyy
 

tarman727

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While i might be a little biased here, but a little L-canceling couldn't hurt :)
 
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