i considered this way and tried to learn it. but in the end i found it much easier just to learn to shield and wavedash with the same button. the delay caused by having to transfer the shield could be problematic eventually (i don't know though), but i'd bet you could get it to be fast if you practiced it enough.
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wavedashing out of shield.
- Thread starter Uck
- Start date
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Just here to help =P
IrArby
Smash Ace
ComboTurtle as long as you have a good method that works for you is what counts. I like my way which is different but I recently found a really good use for it.
You can actually hold lightshield in the air and not airdodge but if you say Light Shield with L and Lag cancel and aerial using R, your lightsheild appears right after landing lag ends. I already talked about some in match possiblities with this but you can also use this to speed up the time between landing and a WD if your shoddy on the timing.
If you see a shield, ur doin it wrong. I think you'll almost always see a little shield but you can pin point the timing nonetheless. This way your not wasting time standing there after and aerial. 3 Frames can mean the difference between getting grabbed and dashing out and back in to grab them.
You can actually hold lightshield in the air and not airdodge but if you say Light Shield with L and Lag cancel and aerial using R, your lightsheild appears right after landing lag ends. I already talked about some in match possiblities with this but you can also use this to speed up the time between landing and a WD if your shoddy on the timing.
If you see a shield, ur doin it wrong. I think you'll almost always see a little shield but you can pin point the timing nonetheless. This way your not wasting time standing there after and aerial. 3 Frames can mean the difference between getting grabbed and dashing out and back in to grab them.
ComboTurtle
Smash Lord
yeah, i was practicing different methods of doing it yesterday cause my control came back and although that method i described earlier works, its a whole lot easier to just light shield or semi light shield and just click it in, its actually a fairly easy technique to do and i find it weird i havent already encorporated it in my game already anyways while we're here how about a critique?
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=xx-cjibe9Ig&feature=channel_page
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=8MYYQTEUm3M&feature=channel_page
matches are a few weeks old but closest to where im at, i already watched them myself and noticed the large amount of edge gaurd **** ups by trying to make my edge gaurding more complicated than it needs to be and extreme lack of counter, oh its also pal thats why he survives my spikes anyways thanks
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
I still play on occasion with a few players. Just pm me if you ever want critique I always lurk around because I'm bored. Because of the holidays everyone I play has left the area, so I'm basically stuck around waiting for them to come back.
ComboTurtle
Smash Lord
critique my vids mr acrcnatural
edit: they got pushed back to the other page
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=xx-cji...e=channel_page
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=8MYYQT...e=channel_page
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Need to fix the links.critique my vids mr acrcnatural
edit: they got pushed back to the other page
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=xx-cji...e=channel_page
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=8MYYQT...e=channel_page
ComboTurtle
Smash Lord
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
I don't really know how to critique these. I feel like I'm being arrogant with my thoughts here but I'm going to be honest.
There wasn't a whole lot here. You both played pretty predictably, after your 2nd falling Overb I was able to successfully predict every other time you were going to do one on the stage. You both seem to play very single minded. You seem to have fine techskill, followed up your shffls well with grabs and dashes. But there didn't seem to be enough variation for me to really judge. Pretty sure these are friendlies, but even so I just don't see any real feints or counter strategies in these matches that worked.
Other than techchasing (one of the minimal uses of dashdancing) dash dancing was barely used properly. It's hard to judge videos when the only counter approach seemed to be the Fox's double jump approaches. Maybe today was not a good day for me, but that Fox did some horrible approaches. I feel like 90% of those nairs he approached with could of been CC grabbed (CC pushes you away from shine most of the time).
I think the way I would describe this playstyle is 1st choice. Almost everything you guys did seemed to be your first choice. Your Fox friend always approached with nair, never varied his distance with dash dances before nairing, always tried to attack the tech chase rather than trying to see if you had any spotdodge or roll pattern. Neither of you walked, dash to shield (a major for Fox imo). Just seemed a majority of the time was a lot of blind swinging around for approaches. You would occasionally try to camp, but it never actually ended up being camping at all it seemed. When you were both next to each other, both of you thought attack.
I don't really know what else to say. Other than you both seemed to play the same for the entire match, and since neither of you countered what the other was doing it just went back and forth like that for the whole duration.
There wasn't a whole lot here. You both played pretty predictably, after your 2nd falling Overb I was able to successfully predict every other time you were going to do one on the stage. You both seem to play very single minded. You seem to have fine techskill, followed up your shffls well with grabs and dashes. But there didn't seem to be enough variation for me to really judge. Pretty sure these are friendlies, but even so I just don't see any real feints or counter strategies in these matches that worked.
Other than techchasing (one of the minimal uses of dashdancing) dash dancing was barely used properly. It's hard to judge videos when the only counter approach seemed to be the Fox's double jump approaches. Maybe today was not a good day for me, but that Fox did some horrible approaches. I feel like 90% of those nairs he approached with could of been CC grabbed (CC pushes you away from shine most of the time).
I think the way I would describe this playstyle is 1st choice. Almost everything you guys did seemed to be your first choice. Your Fox friend always approached with nair, never varied his distance with dash dances before nairing, always tried to attack the tech chase rather than trying to see if you had any spotdodge or roll pattern. Neither of you walked, dash to shield (a major for Fox imo). Just seemed a majority of the time was a lot of blind swinging around for approaches. You would occasionally try to camp, but it never actually ended up being camping at all it seemed. When you were both next to each other, both of you thought attack.
I don't really know what else to say. Other than you both seemed to play the same for the entire match, and since neither of you countered what the other was doing it just went back and forth like that for the whole duration.
ComboTurtle
Smash Lord
alright, fair enough call ill work on being more unpredictable in my approaches and the cc grab thing will also come in handy also dont feel bad for posting what you really feel ofcourse i wanted a serious critique so, yeah thanks
edit: at what % would it most likely push you away from the shine? all? or just after a certain % anyways thanks again
edit: at what % would it most likely push you away from the shine? all? or just after a certain % anyways thanks again
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
It doesn't even matter, He was fulljumping them. Every fulljumped nair, regardless can be grabbed before the shine. The only way that would change is if he delayed nairing until he was right in the middle of you.alright, fair enough call ill work on being more unpredictable in my approaches and the cc grab thing will also come in handy also dont feel bad for posting what you really feel ofcourse i wanted a serious critique so, yeah thanks
edit: at what % would it most likely push you away from the shine? all? or just after a certain % anyways thanks again
It wasn't really just unpredictableness. It was the general lack of not countering. Both of you seemed to not know what the other person would do, and I'm guessing your friends but that shouldn't of happened. Especially for so long. I think you need to start looking for things to punish more. He never dash danced a nair and he never dashed behind you. So you should expect that if he dashes towards you he is going to do something right in front of you. Right at that moment you can dash dance grab, wavedash back etc. Dash forward to get behind him (although if he dash attacks you need to CC it, one of the risks), etc. etc. And that's just one example. If you start attacking his patterns with more than just luck, you should notice an improvement right away.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Arcnatural generally knows what he's talking about, I'd listen to him.
EDIT: I didn't actually watch the videos 'cause I dislike PAL, but if your Fox friend nairs really early in the jump, shieldgrab it.
EDIT: I didn't actually watch the videos 'cause I dislike PAL, but if your Fox friend nairs really early in the jump, shieldgrab it.
woah when the hell did you get 2000 posts.
i havent been ehre enough
i havent been ehre enough
ComboTurtle
Smash Lord
ok thanks heaps, thats the sorta thing i need because i rarely get a chance to play humans and also if he's never going to dash dance nair then if i see him dash dance i can safely dtilt to grab right considering hes not going to approach with an aerial only a dash attack or a grab?
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
I don't post for the sake of raising my post count... I like the Smash Lord title, and I hope it doesn't change.
If you see him dashdance, just threaten him with dtilts and fairs. Fair to grab is a little safer than dtilt to grab, I think.
If you see him dashdance, just threaten him with dtilts and fairs. Fair to grab is a little safer than dtilt to grab, I think.
lolz i know youd ont i was just commenting on that your post count raised really fast when i wasnt looking
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
That's something to try, I would personally assume it means that if I move towards him, he is going to either dash away or jump. And since you know he double jump baits a lot, if he jumps you have him there, and if he dashes away you can do what you think when you wait for his re-dash in.
Just remember, if you start doing different things he might too. That's the beauty of human competition. The only thing I try to do when I critique really is bring out the human side more than the technical "Dtilt pivot regrab to CG reverse uptilt super special" moves. I just assume what I think you can do from your playstyle and talk more about being aware in the game rather than trying to think about what moves to do.
ComboTurtle
Smash Lord
well if he starts baiting me with double jumps ill dash dance away wait for him to land and side b cause he spot dodges alot and i get shined from missed jc grabs sometimes. In the past i remember sometimes just running straight to him wavedashing past his dash dance and then pivot grabbing back in it seemed to work pretty well, but yeah theres a tourney coming up soon and ill most likely end up playing him at some point and im going to try and record all my matches so ill post some more up with hopefully some mixed up approaches and better reading of my opponents patterns.
and yeah i really do appreciate the way you critique because i think my marth marth is pretty technically sound but there are still alot of non technical things that i need work on, so it really helps.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Super special? This ain't Brawl.
Best way to not get baited is to be the aggressor. Then your opponent has to read you. Plus, you're Marth so you have no issues with getting walled out =P Unless you're playing Jiggs. That ****ing *****-***** **** sonuva *****.
=/
And yeah.
Best way to not get baited is to be the aggressor. Then your opponent has to read you. Plus, you're Marth so you have no issues with getting walled out =P Unless you're playing Jiggs. That ****ing *****-***** **** sonuva *****.
=/
And yeah.
ComboTurtle
Smash Lord
yeah, i hate jiggs it seems to be a tough matchup even though its not supposed to be all that bad.