We need to improve Jigglypuff as a character!

[Drevis2]

I am a huge Jigglypuff main, while I'm not the best, I know her really well, I have over 58 hours of play time with Jigglypuff alone.

I have noticed in big tournaments that people don't really use Jigglypuff very often, so she isn't figured out quite as well as the other characters. She has a huge variety of combos, and has.. probably the best air game compared to the entire cast, like, thats what she was made for, to have an AMAZING airgame. People often look down on Jigglypuff, saying she is weak and such, while most of the people who say this are mostly noobs. (I don't mean to talk down to people who are new to the game, unless you hate Jigglypuff, then yes I do. But as long as you like Jigglypuff, you are alright in my book. )

So many people haven't touched Jigglypuff, there are huge debates over if Jigglypuff is viable for tournaments or not, I think she is, but she needs a lot of work and training to get to that point. People have told me I am very good with Jigglypuff, mostly cause they haven't seen many good Jigglypuff players. They aren't used to seeing people who are actually decent with her.

So because of this, I wanna get Jigglypuff better known, and improve her as a character. She may not have many kill throws, but her wall of pain is hard to deal with, and her rest can be the ultimate punish! Jigglypuff can be improved, the whole meta for her can be improved if we put the work into finding new things with her. I want people to try to stop looking down on her, just because she has low defense, she has huge combos, and with that rest shes like a ticking time bomb.

I'm probably gonna release a guide on her at some point, and I might think about making a group for Jigglypuff mains to get together and train and discuss strategies with her, and then show the world the true potential of Jigglypuff.

I know I obsess over Jigglypuff a lot, but I can't help it, I like her sooo much, but barely anybody important picks her up, so people don't know her hidden advanced techniques...

btw, if anybody knows any godlike/top level Jigglypuff players, tell me please.

 

[Drevis2]

If you don't get my point, I'm trying to say that Jigglypuff is an underrated character that needs to be picked up more and improved.

 

[TSKHAN]

If you don't get my point, I'm trying to say that Jigglypuff is an underrated character that needs to be picked up more and improved.

That's what this board is trying to do. Unfortunately it's difficult because jigglypuff's combos are terrible. Well, the effects are good but the actual combos are way too hard, requiring nearly perfect timing and DI just to hope to make it a true combo. Not only that, the combos usually only work in very small percentage ranges. Also the combos are usually started by difficult to land moves, like sourspot fair, falling u-air on grounded opponents, u-tilt, and rising d-air.

Jigglypuff's tech skill options are bad as well, dash dancing for spacing being the only thing really useful and dash dancing is really hard in the new game (you can get good at it, but i don't think it's tourney viable unless you have superman's thumbs).

Getting good with jigglypuff is literally a matter of spacing and timing. "Don't get hit". That's all there is to it.

 

[Drevis2]

Yea, you got a point, the combos for Jigglypuff aren't the best. :/ Though she isn't the worst combo-er in the smash 4 roster, though. Jigglypuff has an advantage in spacing over most characters IMO, and it's hard to catch her in the air. Though her attacks have somewhat poor range...

 

[Jiggly]

Jigglypuff's combos are actually pretty good, most Jigglypuff combos do 25-40 percent, and that's really good.

 

[SafCar]

Jigglypuff's tech skill options are bad as well, dash dancing for spacing being the only thing really useful and dash dancing is really hard in the new game (you can get good at it, but i don't think it's tourney viable unless you have superman's thumbs).\

Or if you're a lefty.

On-topic: Part of Jiggly's power lies in intimidation. Show the other player you mean business. Pelt them with combos and play keep away so that they can't hurt you but you can hurt them. With enough intimidation, your opponent can slip up; maybe they miss a Landing Lag Cancel, maybe they made an unsafe landing, or maybe they rolled right within you. Whatever the excuse may be, it's a free Rest KO, and that only makes them more intimidated.

Long story short, the way to go about it is to keep a level head and stay in control by pressuring and mind gaming. Pressure the opponent, and they make mistakes. They make mistakes, we capitalize on them. It's how Jiggs works.

Just the other day I went up against a partial greenhorn in an Ike MU, but she still won. Reason being that she knew that whatever damage she took was minor, and she had enough of a backbone to go for the laggy attacks, which lead to my loss.

 

[TSKHAN]

Jigglypuff's combos are actually pretty good, most Jigglypuff combos do 25-40 percent, and that's really good.

Most tournament viable characters have consistent and easy combos, our combos are all difficult to pull off and can only work in like 7% ranges. Getting off a combo is great, but it's not consistent enough to rely on.

 

[PandaEffect]

If only she had something off throws she'd be such a bigger threat.
Would be great.

 

[Drevis2]

In all honesty, Jigglypuff has some great combos, they are just somewhat hard to use. But a good Jigglypuff main can master them, this is why you gotta be pretty good at the game to use Jigglypuff, she's pretty complicated.

 

[Drevis2]

This is probably why she is so underused compared to other characters, she has a much harder learning curve.

 

[MisterDom]

SafCar is right. It's all about pressuring into another combo, or even a rest. And yes, Jiggs has some weird combos, but unlike other characters, she can combo at pretty much any percent until the percentages get too high (like 100).

 

[MisterDom]

You just have to know what to do and when to do it.

 

[Smeefy]

I find it odd people say hard to use is a fault for puff when Rosalina my secondary is often considered the 2nd if not best character in the game and her learning curve is through the roof

 

[Ximlee]

I find it odd people say hard to use is a fault for puff when Rosalina my secondary is often considered the 2nd if not best character in the game and her learning curve is through the roof

The problem is that Rosalina has clear payoff when you put the time in, a good Jigglypuff doesn't have the tools to do what a good RosaLuma player does

 

[Smeefy]

The problem is that Rosalina has clear payoff when you put the time in, a good Jigglypuff doesn't have the tools to do what a good RosaLuma player does

But see a good jiggs is a thing of beauty just like a good Rosalina

 

[Ximlee]

But see a good jiggs is a thing of beauty just like a good Rosalina

Of course! c:

 

[Stickmanlolz]

I wonder if there are any new tech we can find for the puff. I've been experimenting with side tilt, with mediocre results so far.

Edgegurading with it is strangely effective, but requires strict timing.

 

[CHOVI]

Best air game? Doubt it... sorry. Many characters have aerials that outrange us and come out pretty fast (e.g. Roy)
Our air game is good, true. But it certainly isn't the best. Sure, a good Jigglypuff can beat anyone... but there are some matchups that just seem to me too difficult to be worth it. I think that's the reason nobody uses Puff. We still do need to improve the meta and discover new things, I agree with that.

 

[Ximlee]

If Jiggs were to get a buff, what would you like to see?

 

[Stickmanlolz]

U-air and u-tilt have better knockback at higher percentages
U-throw is a more reliable kill throw killing at 180% on average
F-throw sending at a lower angle
ability to store the charge of rollout
Sing puts people to sleep in air(must be VERY close for this to happen)
slightly faster air or run speed
Rising pound has better height gain.
Give u-smash invincibility like mario/G&W plus more knockback

 

[Ximlee]

U-air and u-tilt have better knockback at higher percentages
U-throw is a more reliable kill throw killing at 180% on average
F-throw sending at a lower angle
ability to store the charge of rollout
Sing puts people to sleep in air(must be VERY close for this to happen)
slightly faster air or run speed
Rising pound has better height gain.
Give u-smash invincibility like mario/G&W plus more knockback

I definitely agree with a lot of these. I think a kill throw at high percents (around the strength of Peach's back throw) would do her a world of good

 

[pikazz]

if Jigglypuff got a kill throw at 100% near the ledge, she would have great answer to shield

(I know SideB already is but one miscalculation and you will get punished for it)

 

[Ximlee]

I'm hoping the release of Bayonetta and Corrin also comes with an answer to our prayers. Sakurai please!

 

[CHOVI]

If Jiggs were to get a buff, what would you like to see?

I just want better frame data tbh. Less cooldown on Pound for example. But Stickmanlolz put up a pretty nice list. I think if we had that, we'd be top tier.

 

[Ximlee]

I just want better frame data tbh. Less cooldown on Pound for example. But Stickmanlolz put up a pretty nice list. I think if we had that, we'd be top tier.

Definitely. Imagine if Jiggs had the air speed to keep up with Sheik? That alone would launch us into top 10

 

[Stickmanlolz]

I almost forgot to mention. Take away the flower from Rest and replace it with more knockback. Our problem is with killing not dealing damage.

 

[Managomous]

My biggest gripe with Jigglypuff, has to do with the fact that she really is not a forgiving character. You have to play extremely precise with her, or else be punished. Smash 4 as a whole feels as though it was not built for being this precise, considering a lot of characters can just throw out an attack, and if they miss, they are somewhat safe, compared to Jigglypuff.

If I had to recommend some possible changes it would be:
Get rid of the shield-breaking insta-death. It's "Unique" but now it's to the point where Marth and Lucina can use it pretty safely. And what's our biggest punish against that? I get a hit in? Considering Puff really does not have much combo potential, the only real "Punishment" would be a rest. But, good luck even getting in the spot considering the recovery time/ the fact the poke creates a distance.

I think Puff needs more combo potential, and I think this could be remedy'd by possibly giving her attack more of a reach or to increase the hitboxes a bit. But maybe that's just me.

Speed or ability to stay alive would be awesome. I feel as though her air game could be improved with a bit more speed considering we could transition a lot faster/begin creating new combos.

But that's just my insight. Puff right now is all based on reads/being absolutely accurate. In melee it almost seemed like you could get away with it since you had to be precise with other characters as well. In Smash 4, precision is not necessary for a lot of characters, but for Puff it is!

 

[Ximlee]

My biggest gripe with Jigglypuff, has to do with the fact that she really is not a forgiving character. You have to play extremely precise with her, or else be punished. Smash 4 as a whole feels as though it was not built for being this precise, considering a lot of characters can just throw out an attack, and if they miss, they are somewhat safe, compared to Jigglypuff.

If I had to recommend some possible changes it would be:
Get rid of the shield-breaking insta-death. It's "Unique" but now it's to the point where Marth and Lucina can use it pretty safely. And what's our biggest punish against that? I get a hit in? Considering Puff really does not have much combo potential, the only real "Punishment" would be a rest. But, good luck even getting in the spot considering the recovery time/ the fact the poke creates a distance.

I think Puff needs more combo potential, and I think this could be remedy'd by possibly giving her attack more of a reach or to increase the hitboxes a bit. But maybe that's just me.

Speed or ability to stay alive would be awesome. I feel as though her air game could be improved with a bit more speed considering we could transition a lot faster/begin creating new combos.

But that's just my insight. Puff right now is all based on reads/being absolutely accurate. In melee it almost seemed like you could get away with it since you had to be precise with other characters as well. In Smash 4, precision is not necessary for a lot of characters, but for Puff it is!

I think a throw that combos into back air would be incredible. It'd basically be a free KO at higher percents

 

[Stickmanlolz]

I think a throw that combos into back air would be incredible. It'd basically be a free KO at higher percents

A combo throw does not sound very "Jigglypuff" to me. I believe we should base buffs around her aerial game and making use of those two useless moves. One kill throw and the others to set up edgeguards or leave the opponent in a vulnerable position. I just don't want to lose the character in pursuit of buffs.

 

[CHOVI]

A combo throw does not sound very "Jigglypuff" to me. I believe we should base buffs around her aerial game and making use of those two useless moves. One kill throw and the others to set up edgeguards or leave the opponent in a vulnerable position. I just don't want to lose the character in pursuit of buffs.

Something like a Dthrow -> Bair doesn't sound THAT crazy to me.

 

[Jiggly]

all of puffs aerials are safe on shield, thats not the problem lol. She needs bigger hitboxes, fix her utilt behind her, make bair and fair bigger. Another great thing would be a combo throw like charizards, so we can combo without something ridiculous like dthrow to rest, or maybe uthrow to kill at marth percent. Also higher airspeed is my most wanted buff. Make us faster than yoshi plz.

 

[CHOVI]

all of puffs aerials are safe on shield, thats not the problem lol. She needs bigger hitboxes, fix her utilt behind her, make bair and fair bigger. Another great thing would be a combo throw like charizards, so we can combo without something ridiculous like dthrow to rest, or maybe uthrow to kill at marth percent. Also higher airspeed is my most wanted buff. Make us faster than yoshi plz.

Dthrow to rest? That'd be too op IMO.
Also are fair, upair, nair absolutely safe on shield?

 

[Jiggly]

Dthrow to rest? That'd be too op IMO.
Also are fair, upair, nair absolutely safe on shield?

not uair

 

[Amiracle]

She needs new moves. Like if her neutral B was actually useful. Imagine jigglypuff if she had a projectile or maybe could wield the power of the Monado

Pound is ok but I'd rather move rollout to her side b and then make it work like bowser jrs cart where she can cancel at any time into an aerial.

Rest is fine, I think making it restore hp like in the pokemon games would be a nice touch though. Maybe 10-15 percent?

Her sing is debatable. I think giving players the option to stop singing would be nice

 

[CHOVI]

She needs new moves. Like if her neutral B was actually useful. Imagine jigglypuff if she had a projectile or maybe could wield the power of the Monado

Pound is ok but I'd rather move rollout to her side b and then make it work like bowser jrs cart where she can cancel at any time into an aerial.

Rest is fine, I think making it restore hp like in the pokemon games would be a nice touch though. Maybe 10-15 percent?

Her sing is debatable. I think giving players the option to stop singing would be nice

That'd be a totally different character. Jigglypuff doesn't NEED new moves IMO. She didn't have those things in Melee and she was top tier.

 

[Managomous]

That'd be a totally different character. Jigglypuff doesn't NEED new moves IMO. She didn't have those things in Melee and she was top tier.

I don't think she NEEDS new moves, but honestly, sing would be something I would say should be either changed or removed.

Sing has always been useless IMO, both in Melee and in Smash 4. It's just not viable, so unless they extend the range on it, I think they can do better with it.

But honestly it's the basic mechanics that need to be revamped overall.

 

[marteen_]

- Make Sing have slightly more range. It's near useless unless you're trying to style.
- Rollout should be cancellable mid use with a jump and not make Puff completely helpless after hitting it. This lets puff play mindgames, gives it an option for quickly traveling across the stage, and make the move more useful in general.
- Pound should have less endlag if it hits a shield, and the movement provided with it should be a little quicker.
- Upthrow should be some sort of killthrow at higher percents? I feel like Puff should have another decent kill option.
- Pound's knockback should be adjusted so it can combo into her moves. More combo potential.

I'm no good at this, aren't I?

 

[CHOVI]

- Upthrow should be some sort of killthrow at higher percents? I feel like Puff should have another decent kill option.

Upthrow does kill on the top platform of Town & City kappa

 

[OmegaStriker]

Dthrow to rest? That'd be too op IMO.
Also are fair, upair, nair absolutely safe on shield?

You mainly want to use uair to counter falling opponents. The hitbox is actually a decent size and it never loses it damage or knockback throughout all of its active frames.

 

[Darklink401]

I think the reason why they don't give puff a combo throw, is because any throw she can do an aerial out of, would be a throw she can rest out of. Which sounds unfair.

And it probably is. I still read airdodges and catch people anyways so we good.