What 5 characters take the most skill?

[PWNAGEPOLICE]

1. Olimar- Because of the sheer amount attention you have to pay to which Pikmin are in your queue
2. Diddy- Rediculous banana combos and barrel cancelling
3. Pit- Some insane ATs you can do with him
4. PT
5. CFalc?

 

[Super Perfect Cell]

In no particular order:

1. Snake.
2. Pokemon Trainer.
3. Samus.
4. Ice Climbers.
5. Link.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Link.

Pit

Link

Link

Pit

Why so many Links and Pits? Here's why they should be easy:

Pit: He gives you an easily controllable up-B, range, and spammable moves (Side-B, Neutral B). Lots of people says he takes lots of time to master, but he was the very first character in brawl that I mastered. I don't see why he's so hard.

Link: Again, spammable projectiles and range. He has priority and power, two other things that lessen the learning curve. And while he is slow and has poor recovery, that can't be fixed.

 

[Divilenta]

In no particular order...

Ganon
The Captain
Olimar
ZSS
Yoshi
Ice Climbers

And, yes, that's 6.

 

[OfTheEarth]

i Like Hard To Use Characters, And I Want To Start Using The 5 Characters That Take The Most Tech Skill To Use.

Heres What I Was Thinking;

1) Link

2) Peach

3) Diddy

4) Snake

5) Ness

What Are Your Opinions On The Characters That Need The Most Skill To Use Well?

Nope!
Diddy Is Gay
So Easy To Use

 

[OfTheEarth]

I Think this one has to be on the dot
its honestly alot more honest as to who's hardest to play with and who's not

 

[Lithexive]

hmmm.. tough question, but I will have to say:

1. Snake
2. Olimar
3. Diddy Kong
4. Yoshi
5. Fox/Flaco/Wolf

 

[Lizard]

Maybe a Vote would be in order at this time?

Everyone case their votes and the thread starter can tally.

Mine goes for Link, even though Ness is obviously cooler :-P

 

[Geist]

You can't really measure the skill it takes to play a character to make it into an accurate list.
There are way too many variables like matchups, what you consider the skill to be, different play styles, etc.
If you want to know who takes the most amount of skill to do well with, you might as well just name the worst characters and work from there.

 

[Energy Whip]

hmmm.. tough question, but I will have to say:

1. Snake
2. Olimar
3. Diddy Kong
4. Yoshi
5. Fox/Flaco/Wolf

Agreed, They have to be the hardest for me aswell. :D

 

[KrazyGlue]

I changed my list a bit:

ZSS/Snake/Wario/Pokemon Trainer/Diddy.

Yeah, Lucario isn't that hard now that I think about it.

Although I also agree that olimar is tough to master. And also, I think the difficulty of learning a character can be measured. It has little to do with matchups or playing style. Regardless of how you play or who you are playing, you have to master a character's skills and know in what situations to use them.

 

[AndreVeloso]

1. Peach (Not very good without floating - I too am a Peach Main)
2. Jigglypuff (Needs to put others on high damage while gaining little)
3. Ice Climbers (Chaingrabing, Desynching, Everything)
4. Pokemon Trainer (Learning 3 pokemon in 1)
5. Yoshi (Just hard for any beginner to use)

 

[.Marik]

YoshiYoshiYoshiYoshiYoshiYoshi.

And when you think about it, all characters take some form of skill to wield effectively.

 

[t3h n00b]

YoshiYoshiYoshiYoshiYoshiYoshi.

And when you think about it, all characters take some form of skill to wield effectively.

I agree, I suck so bad with Yoshi because I try to play him like I do pretty much everyone else.

 

[Fritz~9]

why do people keep putting snake on the list? I'd def say he was one of the easiest if not the easiest character to play effectively, and olimar not too far behind. one is all about tilts and camping and the other GRABS, smashes and camping. Lucario is one of the easier characters I've played. ROB is pretty easy too just odd to start off with because of tremendous speed differences in his moves (either really fast or laggy but powerful) If I had to say the five most difficult to play effectively:

1: Ice climbers (grabgame, desync)
2: Peach (FC)
3: Pikachu (QuACk)
4: TL/Link (quickdraws, zair, bombgame)
5: Diddy (dribble spacing)

Nearly every low tier character is difficult to play competitively, I'd place them up there somewhere but I made the criterion: playing a good character x. Playing a low tier character and doming on high tiers would def be more difficult than getting the basics and AT's down when the ones I listed above. But I think this comes without saying.

Pit.... really? I played this character a few times in some random matches and had no trouble figuring out effective approaches, KOs, projectile follow-ups, etc. I don't see how this character could be considered difficult to play effectively.

 

[t3h n00b]

Pit does have a ton of ATs, but none of them are extremely useful. The best Pits still spend about half the match arrow spamming.

 

[Johnny Pteran]

Snake is hard to use if you want to use all his moves effectively.

Check out how Ally uses the landmine in combos and stuff; that's hard to set up, imo.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

I know it's a generic answer, but I want to say that the absolute hardest character to get good with is the Pokemon Trainer. If you aren't good with all 3 of them, you're leaving yourself open to anyone who can exploit the other's weaknesses, not to mention that there are some who play well against all three Pokemon. Plus, properly using the strengths of all 3 in battle at the right time does take a lot of work, and you risk being instantly killed by a readied attack every time you switch.

This one is going to get me flamed, but I also think Metaknight takes skill to use. It's not that he's not an easy person to pick up (although this varies from player to player). It's because he's the best character that atleast 60% of anyone who plays Brawl and has access to tournaments, other player's news, or the internet is concerned about how to deal with him, and as such learn different ways to battle against him. As such, it takes a lot of skill to battle against that many people, some of them who are out specifically to get you.

People are again going to call me crazy and flame me, but I think Olimar takes some skill to use right too... Your attacks, knockback, strategy, and even chances of winning can completely change depending on the Pikmin that you get. And it doesn't seem like you can harvest as many as you want the instant you want mid match. I might just be inexperienced with him, but still, I haven't seen too many who can do a magic dance and pull out 6 Reds instantly. Mastering the different attacks with different pikmin seems like a daunting task to me...

Snake also seems a little difficult to use as well. Many would just say to up-tilt and forget about it, but spamming any move is going to get you killed. A smart snake has to be able to use all of his abilities, from his mines, to his grenades, to his grabs, to his tilts. That's true for everyone, but Snake has so many different tricks, and yet if you can't use the right one at the right situation, even this legendary Soldier isn't going to last too long on the battlefield.

I guess I can understand it a bit, but I personally haven't had proiblems with using him. He flowed pretty well with me. But everyone seems to think that it's hard to use Lucario... I dunno, but I guess, just to round out the five, since they say that his learning curve is the only thing keeping him from not being uber popular in the Meta-Game (I'm ignoring anyone who doesn't know him enough and that assumes ExtremeSpeed not being able to attack is a big weakness, because it's pretty unmentionable).

 

[Kennahh]

Why so many Links and Pits? Here's why they should be easy:

Pit: He gives you an easily controllable up-B, range, and spammable moves (Side-B, Neutral B). Lots of people says he takes lots of time to master, but he was the very first character in brawl that I mastered. I don't see why he's so hard.

Link: Again, spammable projectiles and range. He has priority and power, two other things that lessen the learning curve. And while he is slow and has poor recovery, that can't be fixed.

Don't even try to compare Link's spam to Pit's spam. Link's spam takes thought.

 

[.Marik]

Low-tiers generally take more skill. Besides Snake.

 

[Browny]

upon further inspection, im now of the belief Diddy is one of the easiest characters in the game. All you have to do is know how to glidetoss and thats all you need. Spacing isnt an issue with diddy, since his only approach always has the exact same spacing, Kill set ups are always the same and damage racking is simply banana -> grab/dash attack. When I can beat people with a character i never even touch, ive only ever seen videos of diddy, people who i normally go even with any other character (even snake/MK), I think his skill level required is MASSIVELY overhyped.

 

[Melomaniacal]

I know it's a generic answer, but I want to say that the absolute hardest character to get good with is the Pokemon Trainer. If you aren't good with all 3 of them, you're leaving yourself open to anyone who can exploit the other's weaknesses, not to mention that there are some who play well against all three Pokemon. Plus, properly using the strengths of all 3 in battle at the right time does take a lot of work, and you risk being instantly killed by a readied attack every time you switch.

This one is going to get me flamed, but I also think Metaknight takes skill to use. It's not that he's not an easy person to pick up (although this varies from player to player). It's because he's the best character that atleast 60% of anyone who plays Brawl and has access to tournaments, other player's news, or the internet is concerned about how to deal with him, and as such learn different ways to battle against him. As such, it takes a lot of skill to battle against that many people, some of them who are out specifically to get you.

People are again going to call me crazy and flame me, but I think Olimar takes some skill to use right too... Your attacks, knockback, strategy, and even chances of winning can completely change depending on the Pikmin that you get. And it doesn't seem like you can harvest as many as you want the instant you want mid match. I might just be inexperienced with him, but still, I haven't seen too many who can do a magic dance and pull out 6 Reds instantly. Mastering the different attacks with different pikmin seems like a daunting task to me...

Snake also seems a little difficult to use as well. Many would just say to up-tilt and forget about it, but spamming any move is going to get you killed. A smart snake has to be able to use all of his abilities, from his mines, to his grenades, to his grabs, to his tilts. That's true for everyone, but Snake has so many different tricks, and yet if you can't use the right one at the right situation, even this legendary Soldier isn't going to last too long on the battlefield.

I guess I can understand it a bit, but I personally haven't had proiblems with using him. He flowed pretty well with me. But everyone seems to think that it's hard to use Lucario... I dunno, but I guess, just to round out the five, since they say that his learning curve is the only thing keeping him from not being uber popular in the Meta-Game (I'm ignoring anyone who doesn't know him enough and that assumes ExtremeSpeed not being able to attack is a big weakness, because it's pretty unmentionable).

There's so much wrong in this that I don't feel like correcting anything.

(Why do I always stumble into your posts?)

But yeah, I'm confused as hell as to why people keep saying Olimar. Really? Olimar? The only pikmin you need to keep an eye out for are white and purple (crap knock-back and crap range), which I believe you are least likely to pick, and this isn't hard unless you're severely colorblind, in which case you shouldn't be using Olimar in the first place.
Snake? Really?
I used to think Diddy was one of the hardest, but the more I think about it, I'm not so sure.

 

[t3h n00b]

upon further inspection, im now of the belief Diddy is one of the easiest characters in the game. All you have to do is know how to glidetoss and thats all you need. Spacing isnt an issue with diddy, since his only approach always has the exact same spacing, Kill set ups are always the same and damage racking is simply banana -> grab/dash attack. When I can beat people with a character i never even touch, ive only ever seen videos of diddy, people who i normally go even with any other character (even snake/MK), I think his skill level required is MASSIVELY overhyped.

I think it is easy to get decent with Diddy, but watch a Ninjalink video and what he does with bananas. The top players are at a point where they're not glidetossing and dash grabbing, they're using true combos. In my opinion, he's one of the hardest characters to get great with, you have to control the bananas well because his game is pretty weak otherwise, especially when compared to other high tiers. There is a large gap between good Diddy players and great ones.

Diddy has a lot of different approaches, and if you just pull out bananas and glidetoss against a good player they will shield and throw them back every time, very often with a better moveset than Diddy once his main advantage is gone. You can roll in either direction after a trip, so grabbing is not always likely to work unless it's a chain grab (yes a true infinite using a well-placed banana). The same goes for smashes. Killing is Diddy's main weakness, but good Diddy players either rack up damage way faster than their opponent, gimp well, or use one of his three difficult spikes.

 

[Browny]

true combos dont necesarily take more skill. DDD/Falco chain grab is a true combo, grab releases on wario are true combos too. Ive never really played against a pro diddy but from what i see in videos, im not impressed at all. Its the exact opposite to a character like wario imo. You never know what warios going to do next, he always has to approach and has no items to help him open holes in the enemies defense.

Diddy may be hard to play at a pro level, but so is Metaknight. Only the best MK players get anywhere. Its just a slight trend i notice where MK has a very high proportion of 1st places compared to 2-8th. Does anyone consider MK hard to play? I dont, but hes at leats harder than diddy imo

 

[t3h n00b]

Seriously? MK harder than Diddy? I'll let the rest of the posters in this thread answer that one for you. But in response to the true combo thing, it is much harder than chaingrabs (obviously why you don't see those except at really high levels of play, but DDD/Falco chaingrabs are common amongst decent players). As far as approaches go, once again, Diddy can't just spam bananas against a decent player. Approaches are often with a banana in hand, with monkey flip, with the peanut gun, or *gasp* aerials like Wario. Debates about skill and true combos aside, ask almost anyone and they will tell you that Diddy has one of the most unique playstyles in the game (maybe not as much as Wario, but way more than most characters).

Only the best MK players get anywhere.

Only the best players in general get anywhere. I don't think any decent players win big tournaments, I sure haven't. Obviously better players usually do better in tournaments, but it's a fact that at this point in time, MK has the best metagame and therefore usually has favorable matchups. Diddy is high tier, but you don't see a massive amount of Diddys placing high in tournaments. There are some good ones, but you can't pick up Diddy and use him at a high level like some people have done with MK, making him their secondary.

 

[PCHU]

Ganon.
I remember my first time using him.
I was like "Man, what did they DO to him?!"
But now, I really enjoy maining him.
He's capable of some decent mindgames.

Ike.
I remember giving him up for awhile, simply because he was too slow.
But his slowness makes him interesting.
He has so many tricks up his sleeves (well, when I use him) it's not even funny.
Fsmash is my primary kill move.
And it's not in a n00bish way, either, it's more of "M1NDG@M3Z *BOOM*"

Ness.
It took me forever to get the hang of him, but now, it's just natural.
"Oh crap, I'm dying. *PK Thunders*"
"Hey, he's gonna roll. *Fsmash the other way*"
"He's off the ledge. Let's make sure he doesn't come back. *SPIKE"
It was the timing that killed me, but now, my anticipation skills kick in, and I'm tons better than I used to be.

Fox.
You really have to know what you're doing.
I mean, sure, he's got good drill kick 'combos'.
What after that?
That's where the skill has to kick in.

Charizard.
I know, Rock Smash spam.
But, did you know that it's NOT VERY EFFECTIVE against higher level players?
Naw, you didn't.
Okay, maybe you did.
Anyways, he does have a great moveset, but it takes skill to use it correctly.
If you don't want to come off as a spammer, he is going to take some serious skill.
Fsmash decays easily; you can't rely on it all of the time.
Dsmash only works if your opponent is on the ground (to my knowledge).
Rock Smash can be predicted easily; save it.

These are pretty much my views, but change them to your liking if you must.
Everyone has their own opinion, I'm just stating mine.

 

[Browny]

Consider this the way I see things...
Look at tourney rankings with a points/placement ratio (top level characters only). this will indicate either one of two things. The character is easy to use at a tournament level (high amount of placements, low amount of wins) or they are difficult, and only a few players are competent enough with said character to place top 4 or higher, let alone win (high points, low amount of placements).
This is what you get

8.54
5.98
8.38
11.96
6.81
5.36
5.46
3.92
8.11
5.77
3.88
4.57
5.38
5.76
4.29


Organise that into a list into higher/lowest...



This begins to look A LOT more what I would expect a skill requirement to main these characters at tournament level involves. G&W looks like the only outlier in that data set to me. Falco is debatable, but maybe hes just underplayed?

Diddy is by no means underplayed, he has a lot of tourney placecings, but not many points to go with it, indicative of characters presumed to be easy to play, like DDD

 

[Tamoo]

2 b totally honest, I think i agree with the OPs top 5,
seems pretty accurate 2 me

and def not olimar lol
although when learning olimar, you have to learn that grabbing every other move will only work against noobs so theres quite a learning curve but when you realise to control the spam, it gets easier.
The same could be said for Iceclimbers, once you learn the chaingrabs, its pretty much an easy ride from there where the only thing u have to concentrate on is mindgaming to a grab.

 

[King GeGeGe]

I'm surprised by how few say olimar, who is truly difficult to learn well

 

[TheREALShadowChaos]

I think that it's harder to fight against Diddy than to fight with him....

 

[bribri123123]

Alright...
1. Pit - He is OK but when you use him you spam, it is hard to get over this.
2. Gannon - He is excellent but it takes time to adapt to his strong combat.
3. Ike - Like I said with Gannon, He is good but takes time to adapt to his slow moves.
4. Jiggly - I shouldn't EVEN have to go there... She sleeps and sings...
5. Charzard - Ok, everyone always spams his rock smash, but that doesnt work against good players.

 

[Divilenta]

2. Gannon - He is excellent but it takes time to adapt to his strong combat.
3. Ike - Like I said with Gannon, He is good but takes time to adapt to his slow moves.

Ganon is only spelled "Gannon" when banning someone.

 

[voomm]

In no particular order:
1. Marth
2. Ice Climbers
3. Pokemon Trainer
4. ZSS
5. Olimar

ice climbers are just grab smash kill they are cheap!

 

[bribri123123]

Ganon is only spelled "Gannon" when banning someone.

Sorry, its so confusing XD

 

[Munas]

I don't get it when people are saying Marth. His spacing isn't that difficult. I'm no master and I don't even main Marth but I can handle the spacing pretty well. Someone mentioned that he's difficult in theorycraft because he's based around punishment and the theoretical perfect played doesn't make mistakes. Fortunately for Marth, there is no perfect player, not even M2K (though he is terrifyingly skilled). His kill moves can be difficult to pull off if the player knows the match up and that can give him some trouble, but it by no means makes him one of the most difficult characters in the game.

A lot of people are also mentioning ZSS and I've heard it said before in other places but I'm not so sure. She's harder than most to be sure, but I'm not sure about top five. I'm not really sure about ZSS though, I picked her up VERY quickly, I may just have an affinity for her though. Not to say I'm spectacular but my ability to play basically made leaps and bounds after I picked up ZSS. But based on how quickly I picked her up I'm inclined to say she's more in the middle as long as you know the basics of the game.

Now for my list: I'm going to list the characters that I believe to be the hardest to bring to their potential, because if this was a list of hardest characters to be good with it'd just be the five characters at the bottom of the tier list:

Link: As has been mentioned many times in this thread he's got a plethora of ATs that are pretty important to mastering Link, furthermore his heavy weight and poor recovery make the ability to play a solid center stage game overwhelmingly important. I think Link could be an actually good character if he was a little less heavy and had a bit more range on his up B. He's not really tournament viable, but someone who's really mastered the character can give a more tourny viable character a good run for their money.

Toon Link: A big part of the difficulty with Toon Link is, as silly as it might sound, projectile spam. He has so many options between arrows, boomerang and bombs that it's difficult to know what to use and when. Up close he has a plethora of options as well and I think part of the problem is that he has so many excellent options that he just doesn't have time to use them all effectively, because of this you have to be very concious of what your options are and what they might lead into, thus you always have to be planning ahead. Furthermore, like Link he has a plethora of ATs, while he's a fairly easy character to pick up he's a difficult character to bring to his full potential to the point that I don't believe that there is anyone who's done it yet, though we certainly have people who are good TLs like Santi and Chip (among others). I don't think he's going to suddenly jump up to the top of high tier or anything like that which seems a common believe in the TL boards, but I certainly think at his full potential he could be higher in the tier list than he is. He's just very hard to get to that level of play.

Sheik: Sheik has many of the tools I would think are necessary to do well, but their difficult to properly utilize. Sheik has enough trouble killing that a person has to be creative to get kills with her. I think in order to play Sheik to her potential you have to be thinking a lot more than any other character I can think of. You have to be able to trick your opponent and especially get them off stage and gimp them while still being able to get back to the stage yourself. While not necessarily ATs she has a lot of little tricks to learn before you can bring her to her full potential.

Maybe add more later.

 

[Divilenta]

Sorry, its so confusing XD

It's a common mistake. Just remember the difference between Ganon and a Gannon-banning.

 

[Jesustl64]

1.jigglypuff
2.peach
3.R.O.B.
4.ness
5.lucas

 

[zaborg2400]

hmm, those who i dont use and r a pain in the *** 2 b good with wood b diddy, samus/zamus, link, CF, pkmn trainer(cuz thers 3 of him ;p).

 

[Jawsh]

Imo, no order either, but 5 hardest characters are

1) Snake
2) C. Falcon [my favourite ^u^]
3) Lolimar or Olimar
4) Ice Climbers
5) Meta Knight [ hard to not play him like an A. hole. ]

 

[ExCeL 52]

I don't see how Captain Falcon takes any skill.