What Are Your Unpopular Gaming Opinions? (Ver. 2)

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In my timezone, it says my last post was yesterday.

still wasn’t 24 hours

I'll just merge the posts. It's not that big of a deal.

 

[fogbadge]

I'll just merge the posts. It's not that big of a deal.

sorry. just trying to help

 

[Champion of Hyrule]

This term is an exaggeration of course but I legitimately think bad video games (or bad movies) culture and the ways people complain about them is a case of collective delusion. I’m not saying this to say “[game that’s seen as bad] is actually good and if you disagree that’s mass delusion!” or even that most games seen as bad are actually good. I’m saying that a lot of bad games are talked about in a way that’s really illogical and unfair to them and you get a sense the people making those critiques are biased by wanting to see the game fail.

As an example I’ve genuinely seen people argue that Bubsy 3D deserves extreme scrutiny as a 3D platformer because it released after Super Mario 64 as if the few months between those games would be enough for them to change a game whose entire movement system is different. Or the infamous criticisms of Dark Souls II’s camera controls that almost certainly come from people doing the extremely stupid decision of locking onto a single enemy in a crowd (as pointed out by hbonberguy in his defense of dark souls 2 video). I don’t think people are dumb or anything for having extremely surface level, misguided criticisms of games but it seems to me that it comes from them hearing about a game’s flaws from content creators or reviewers and subconsciously thinking of it as not being worthy of their respect. When someone plays a game they don’t think of as serious they then have very surface level critiques of it and are deluded into latching into bizarre criticisms as fact. God knows that IGN reviewer who jumped over springs and ramps in Sonic Unleashed for some reason probably didn’t treat Sonic as being deserving of his time, and those misguided critiques are repeated in a self reinforcing cycle.

 

[Quillion]

I don’t think people are dumb or anything for having extremely surface level, misguided criticisms of games

I personally say people ARE dumb for having surface-level criticisms. Especially after seeing design goals or artistic decisions like linearity, repetition, slow pacing, difficulty, or large scale be treated as a bad thing time and time again. I consider myself dumb for ever thinking any of these were bad things.

Out of curiosity, what makes people not dumb for having extremely surface level, misguided criticisms?

 

[fogbadge]

This term is an exaggeration of course but I legitimately think bad video games (or bad movies) culture and the ways people complain about them is a case of collective delusion. I’m not saying this to say “[game that’s seen as bad] is actually good and if you disagree that’s mass delusion!” or even that most games seen as bad are actually good. I’m saying that a lot of bad games are talked about in a way that’s really illogical and unfair to them and you get a sense the people making those critiques are biased by wanting to see the game fail.

As an example I’ve genuinely seen people argue that Bubsy 3D deserves extreme scrutiny as a 3D platformer because it released after Super Mario 64 as if the few months between those games would be enough for them to change a game whose entire movement system is different. Or the infamous criticisms of Dark Souls II’s camera controls that almost certainly come from people doing the extremely stupid decision of locking onto a single enemy in a crowd (as pointed out by hbonberguy in his defense of dark souls 2 video). I don’t think people are dumb or anything for having extremely surface level, misguided criticisms of games but it seems to me that it comes from them hearing about a game’s flaws from content creators or reviewers and subconsciously thinking of it as not being worthy of their respect. When someone plays a game they don’t think of as serious they then have very surface level critiques of it and are deluded into latching into bizarre criticisms as fact. God knows that IGN reviewer who jumped over springs and ramps in Sonic Unleashed for some reason probably didn’t treat Sonic as being deserving of his time, and those misguided critiques are repeated in a self reinforcing cycle.

i think i know what you mean. i have certainly seen some people criticise things in very strange ways that feel like they're going out of they're way to find things to complain about

 

[Oracle Link]

The recent Garry's Mod situation has made me realise that Steam Workshop kinda sucks as a system. It's more convenient, yes, but giving the game's publisher responsibility over moderating mods makes DMCAs significantly more likely as the workshop could be considered part of the game or its marketing in a sense - plus, legal woes aside, troubleshooting is a lot harder if you're not adding the mods directly yourself and don't know where they go, (I've modded a lot of games, and Rivals is easily the single one I've had the most issues with, particularly when it comes to figuring out which installs are causing problems) and Workshop makes it really hard to go through mods and uninstall them.

In fact, I'd say mod sites as a whole are a very troubling system when it comes to DMCAs compared to self-hosting, even if they make discoverability much easier. Content on a mod site like Gamebanana can be collectively wiped easily, self-hosting creates an impossible whack-a-mole game.

Yeah true i feel cheated i wanted to play garrys mod specifically because of the nintendo mods! And btw i dont feel cheated by nintendo more Steam TBH!
I Mean Steam got my money for a game that has now lost almost its entire appeal for me!

 

[Quillion]

Yeah true i feel cheated i wanted to play garrys mod specifically because of the nintendo mods! And btw i dont feel cheated by nintendo more Steam TBH!
I Mean Steam got my money for a game that has now lost almost its entire appeal for me!

Many have raised a good point that a good portion of the Nintendo content (conservatively estimated 75-80%) for GMod consists of ripped models. That's probably the biggest factor there, but of course, the ground-up recreated models have to be crossfire victims too 'cause it's easier to not have to vet for that.

 

[Perkilator]

Maybe it's because I'm more used to doing them in Smash, but I don't feel like counters work nearly as well when they're part of super moves in fighting games.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think the unfortunate news about the various Microsoft owned studios is a very telling reminder of the perils of elevating brands or even figures on a pedestal in the gaming industry. Even as someone that's a Nintendo fan, respects a lot of figures at the company, and recognizes they aren't doing the same sort of bad industry moves other companies... I still have kept my expectations in check about them. Because at the end of the day, Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft are companies in a field of business that's prone to taking dubious shortcuts for profit gains. Some can smarter or even fairer about it (see Iwata cutting his salary a decade ago), but there's an almost parasocial dynamic certain fans have had with big companies. Beyond even the inherently unhealthy nature of that, events like Tango and Arkane being shut down demonstrate that if such passion does exist, it needs extended to the nuts-and-bolts workers in the industry more than companies proper.

 

[Quillion]

Paraphrasing what I said in the NintenZone "Off My Chest" thread:

Part of me actually respects all these AAA studios and publishers for taking all these layoffs, cancellations, and closures in exchange for their project ambition. It actually projects the image of willing to "burn out" rather than "fade away".

 

[fogbadge]

Paraphrasing what I said in the NintenZone "Off My Chest" thread:

Part of me actually respects all these AAA studios and publishers for taking all these layoffs, cancellations, and closures in exchange for their project ambition. It actually projects the image of willing to "burn out" rather than "fade away".

You seem to be saying they’re right to shut down all these companies out of incompetence

 

[Quillion]

You seem to be saying they’re right to shut down all these companies out of incompetence

Hey, "burning out" leaves room to rebuild from the ashes after all. Whether that be the publishers that closed the studios in the first place or some other entity.

 

[fogbadge]

Hey, "burning out" leaves room to rebuild from the ashes after all. Whether that be the publishers that closed the studios in the first place or some other entity.

considering one of the studios that closed made one of their biggest hits last year it’s not so much burning out as setting yourself on fire

 

[Champion of Hyrule]

Paraphrasing what I said in the NintenZone "Off My Chest" thread:

Part of me actually respects all these AAA studios and publishers for taking all these layoffs, cancellations, and closures in exchange for their project ambition. It actually projects the image of willing to "burn out" rather than "fade away".

Except they wouldn't be fading away. If a AAA studio hadn't shut down a developer they would still be making games just fine, I don't know why the assumption is that they would "fade away" rather than continue to make good games like they were doing anyway.

 

[Perkilator]

Paraphrasing what I said in the NintenZone "Off My Chest" thread:

Part of me actually respects all these AAA studios and publishers for taking all these layoffs, cancellations, and closures in exchange for their project ambition. It actually projects the image of willing to "burn out" rather than "fade away".

So you’re okay with people losing their jobs once they hit their stride…because you assume they’ll fade away even if the game that put them on the map is only a year old.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The thing is, there's a difference between artistic ambition and that of the corporate variety. The former is very often an admirable trait, wanting to push games into new directions and avoiding stagnation of a series. It can get excessive to the point where it alienates the audience its intending to engage with, but very often the broader culture can see the value in that even if the execution is iffy.

Corporate ambition is a much tricker phenomenon because yes big entertainment empires like those seen this industry got to where they were because of the desire for more, and the likes of Nintendo or Sony wouldn't be the giants they are today if they didn't take the plunge into risky waters. However, given the sheer number of jobs on the line and especially in something like the video game business where so many companies have fallen by the wayside because their plans to grow were beyond their competence? It's something that both has to be handled carefully and examined skeptically because so often it's something driven by short term financial gain at the expense of long-term survival, and even more often done by CEO's that will not suffer the consequences of a developer/publisher's end except for slightly less money.

It's hard for me to look at the last five years of the gaming industry and not see it as far more a public failure of corporate ambition taken to genuinely bad excess than artistic ambition falling short. The big gains made during the pandemic, the major flow of income by live service/MMORPG's, & profit from microtransactions have given far too many companies misplaced confidence in their ability to make big money, and the industry as a whole has suffered for it. The developers/publishers that have avoided layoffs and money losses haven't done so not because they're more ethical, just that they're smarter in managing their budgets and keeping a realistic assessment of their growth.

For all myriad of issues Nintendo has, they've managed to marry that prudent approach to game development with actual allowance of artistic ambition in many of the series. Their failures not hitting them as hard is simply because they keep themselves grounded enough to avoid excess damage.

 

[Quillion]

fogbadge , Champion of Hyrule , Perkilator , LiveStudioAudience :

Look, I can acknowledge that Neil Young's "It's better to burn out..." adage has a bit of shortsightedness to it. A lot of the time, "fading away" produces more consistent success even if it may diminish over time. And maybe this AAA contraction stems from a failure to properly integrate business with art.

But I'm just saying: sometimes, it's better to end after making a big impression and be remembered for that rather than continue way past doing everything you wanted to do.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I guess I can understand that sentiment for older figures in the industry who'd had enough success under their belt to be well remembered and there might be a certain sense of poetry in gettting that last big successful project rather than a series of smaller ones with reduced involvement over time.

The issue for many is that its young talent in the industry that's effectively being burned out before they really get any further chances to demonstrate what they're capable of outside their 1-2 projects. If Tango Gameworks can produce something as strong as Hi-Fi Rush, who's to say that can't make something even better and more impactful if they being overseen by a more competent parent company?

 

[fogbadge]

I guess I can understand that sentiment for older figures in the industry who'd had enough success under their belt to be well remembered and there might be a certain sense of poetry in gettting that last big successful project rather than a series of smaller ones with reduced involvement over time.

The issue for many is that its young talent in the industry that's effectively being burned out before they really get any further chances to demonstrate what they're capable of outside their 1-2 projects. If Tango Gameworks can produce something as strong as Hi-Fi Rush, who's to say that can't make something even better and more impactful if they being overseen by a more competent parent company?

while i completely agree with you on the game potential it is worth remembering that hi-fi rush did have some industry vets working on it

 

[Quillion]

Admittedly, I failed to account for the fact that the developers didn't choose to be closed/laid off when I made that statement.

"It's better to burn out than to fade away"... but only if you choose to burn out rather than have that decision forced upon you.

That said, there's a reason why I said "Part of me actually respects..." rather than it being something I fully believe.

 

[Rizen]

People need to stop assuming that Japanese players are better than American players! Exam ples. A 20,000 point player in Mario kart is the same skill level no matter the country. I watch a lot of competitive smash, pokemon and Mario Kart and there's no clear indication Japanese players are better but it's something I've heard a lot of people just assume.

 

[Janx_uwu]

I think a big reason people make that assumption is because people see lower-tier characters placing better in majors more often than in the US.

I really don't know if that's true or not, but seeing videos pop up with titles like these must be a contributor to why people think that.
I mean, iirc there was a Piranha Plant a couple years ago that took a game off of MKLeo's Joker at a US major. I don't think it's all that different.