What causes Captain Falcon to lose?

[Dogysamich]

Yo.

I was just thumbin around here, and thought I'd throw a random question out here. Might be helpful for CapFal players who want to know what NOT to do.

But in general, what causes CapFal to lose?

Like, what causes for an "disadvantaged" fight?

I dont really want details, as im not trying to build an anti CapFal strategy or anything. Just morbid curiosity.

 

[Giggidax]

um hes a fast faller.
recovery is kinda stank

 

[btk Ace]

Captain Falcons recovery can either be a saint or hell.
Captain falcons disadvantages are small
he is pretty equal on any stage
and his only real enemy probleys are chainthrowers (Peach is the only one that you actually have to worry about)
and Fox's Shine
other than that Captain Falcons doesnt really have any weaknesses

 

[Nafix]

A few wrong decisions or technical errors can easily cost Falcon the game.

 

[that 1 guy]

well captain falcon can combo like crazy, but at the same time he is an easy character to combo.

 

[JoyfulDoom]

#Missed Raptor boosts = 1 stock. SD or not :/
#Easy to out-prioritize (It's true and frustrating sometimes)
#Space Animals
#Recovery
#Easy to shield grab (especially Flying Dairs at the opponent that ends up in front of them)

*These are based on personal experience and what I've seen being exploited)

 

[Rage.]

#Missed Raptor boosts = 1 stock. SD or not :/
#Easy to out-prioritize (It's true and frustrating sometimes)
#Space Animals
#Recovery
#Easy to shield grab (especially Flying Dairs at the opponent that ends up in front of them)

*These are based on personal experience and what I've seen being exploited)

Space animals arent that big of a problem if you know what you are doing
Falcos SHL Is a little hard to get past but if you keep comboing the falco its easy
Foxs Shine is also tough to get past but if you dont do reckless things then it should be
easy to avoid

 

[that 1 guy]

It's not necessarily fox's shine thats the problem. They like to throw out nuetral airs that can be comboed into a shine and then if you're not careful you'll take a lot of damage. Also space animals have really good shield pressure tactics which make the matchups pretty tough.

 

[TheManaLord]

Recovery
Combos



Every character is weak to the same things. There's no super special weakness of Captain Falcon, just the fact that he has poor recovery and fast falls contributes to those two the most.

 

[halfDemon]

The only two "bad" things about Falcon are also good:
Fast Faller- easily comboed*, easy to chaingrab; easy to combo with, hard to combo*, fast as all hell
Recovery- easy to edgeguard, predictable; easy to sweetspot, rides up walls, keeps coming back with proper DI
He's pretty solid.
*Depends on character.

 

[tarheeljks]

i'd say falcon's biggest weakness is that he has no projectile. also his edgeguarding isn't as good as other top level chars.

Space animals arent that big of a problem if you know what you are doing
Falcos SHL Is a little hard to get past but if you keep comboing the falco its easy
Foxs Shine is also tough to get past but if you dont do reckless things then it should be
easy to avoid

space animals definitely pose problems for falcon, falco moreso than fox. you can't deny that he is at a disadvantage against them. saying that "if you keep comoing the falco its easy" is a trivial statement.

 

[shoe]

slow techrolls and getup
fastfaller
sheildgrabbable
afterlag
lack of priority

 

[ilijazi94]

A knee injury.

 

[Shai Hulud]

A knee injury.

lol

To answer the thread creator--pretty much every character in the game can edgeguard Captain Falcon at any % because he can't really sweetspot the ledge. Some do it much better than others, like Fox, Peach, Falco, Sheik, and Marth. His grab range is pretty short, at least compared to some of the top tiers, so he can't shield grab very well.

Because he falls fast he can get juggled really badly by a lot of characters.

Basically all of Captain Falcon's matchups vs. top tier characters are uphill battles, which is why Captain Falcons hardly ever win tournaments.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Marth's backthrow or f-throw to wavedashed f-smash sending you off the stage..chances of recovery are now less than 10% due to marth and his long sword.

 

[frotaz37]

Basically all of Captain Falcon's matchups vs. top tier characters are uphill battles, which is why Captain Falcons hardly ever win tournaments.

Meh, I disagree with that. I think the reason is because not many people play Falcon. How many really good players with tournament winning potential play Falcon? Not very many. I think Falcon is 1 out of 7 characters that have a chance to win major tournaments, cause while I think his list of cons is slightly larger than the characters above him, his list of pros are, in my opinion, on par with Fox and Falco, and they greatly outweigh his cons.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Meh, I disagree with that. I think the reason is because not many people play Falcon. How many really good players with tournament winning potential play Falcon? Not very many. I think Falcon is 1 out of 7 characters that have a chance to win major tournaments, cause while I think his list of cons is slightly larger than the characters above him, his list of pros are, in my opinion, on par with Fox and Falco, and they greatly outweigh his cons.

Fox - Definitely in Fox's favor
Falco - Definitely in Falco's favor
Sheik - Definitely in Sheik's favor
Marth - Arguably even, depending on stage
Peach - Definitely in Peach's favor

Where do you disagree?

 

[TJK1997]

Camping ex Doc pills Falco lasers

 

[DarkKyanite]

A knee injury.

THIS MADE ME ROFL FOR 10 MINS!!!

 

[KevinM]

A knee injury should have been thread over hahah that was brilliant

an high to top tier battle for falcon is an up hill battle

Plus Bowser is a proven counter

 

[tarheeljks]

his pros outweigh his cons in comparison to most characters in the game, this is why he's "high tier." however, they don't outweigh them in comparison to fox, falco, sheik; that's why he weaker matchup against them. if they outweighed them greatly, he would be top tier.

 

[maelstrom218]

People don't play Falcon? Tons of people play Falcon, they just don't use him for tournaments. . .and like Shai Hulud said, it's because his matchups against Top Tiers aren't that great. Heck, every character that Shai Hulud mentioned has a very clear and obvious advantage over Falcon.

The reason why Falcon isn't as great as he could be is because he has absolutely awful recovery. Once he's off the stage, he's finished. . .that's especially true against anyone who has even the remotest idea of how to edgeguard properly. Even edgeteching and proper DI can't save your *** once you're off the stage.

 

[Rage.]

Lack of players skill.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Lack of priority and range
Very easy to combo
Very easy to edgeguard
One mistake can be death, he's very easy to punish
Bad recovery

and his only real enemy probleys are chainthrowers (Peach is the only one that you actually have to worry about)

Um...ICE CLIMBERS

 

[Rage.]

Fox - Definitely in Fox's favor
Falco - Definitely in Falco's favor
Sheik - Definitely in Sheik's favor
Marth - Arguably even, depending on stage
Peach - Definitely in Peach's favor

Where do you disagree?

....wtf?
Captain falcon is great against peach
a lot consider hom a peach counter.
Marth is terrible against Falcon
Falcon is one of sheiks only even match ups
All falcos have are SHL which is easily avoidble
Fox's shine is the only thing he has on falcon, being able to wave shine a falcon perfeclty every time is almost impossible.

and 56k
saying Ice Climbers can chaingrab falcon isnt saying anything
they can chain grab everyone

 

[Endless Nightmares]

But chaingrabbing Falcon with Ice Climbers is the easiest chaingrab they can do (other than Sheik). It requires a lot less effort and timing than the other CGs where they have to do everything almost perfect.

 

[Rage.]

But chaingrabbing Falcon with Ice Climbers is the easiest chaingrab they can do (other than Sheik). It requires a lot less effort and timing than the other CGs where they have to do everything almost perfect.

but still they have the ability to do it to everyone.
they have great potential
and also they are broken as hell
56k do you main them?

 

[Shai Hulud]

....wtf?
Captain falcon is great against peach
a lot consider hom a peach counter.
Marth is terrible against Falcon
Falcon is one of sheiks only even match ups
All falcos have are SHL which is easily avoidble
Fox's shine is the only thing he has on falcon, being able to wave shine a falcon perfeclty every time is almost impossible.

lol you fail.

and 56k
saying Ice Climbers can chaingrab falcon isnt saying anything
they can chain grab everyone

No they can't. You fail again.

 

[Rage.]

show me people that think Peach Vs Falcon is a great match up for the Peach.
Ive played Sastopher and the only thing Peach has on Falcon is her Up smash.

and for a skilled player all of those match ups are good

who can't Ice Climbers chaingrab?
and I mean like down air chaingrab
forward air chaingrab
and infinte grab

 

[maelstrom218]

....wtf?
Captain falcon is great against peach
a lot consider hom a peach counter.
Marth is terrible against Falcon
Falcon is one of sheiks only even match ups
All falcos have are SHL which is easily avoidble
Fox's shine is the only thing he has on falcon, being able to wave shine a falcon perfeclty every time is almost impossible.

Falcon can't reliably combo Peach like he can with other floaties/heavyweights, because her priority overpowers much of what Falcon can dish out. The only thing he's got in this matchup is d-throw -> knee, and even that can be DI'd the majority of the time. It's just the fact that Peach's priority ***** Falcon; it tends to disrupt much of Falcon's approach/grab game. Plus, she can chaingrab.

Yes, Falcon can combo Marth, but Marth can DI out of it, and his f-air is a crazy combo breaker that screws up many n-air/d-throw juggling. Falcon simply can't deal with Marth on smaller stages when the sword is all over the place. . .and besides, Marth's superior edgeguarding makes recovery impossible. It's not that bad of a matchup as the space animals since Falcon has his autokill throw -> knee combos, but it's definitely uphill.

"All Flacos have are SHL which is easily avoidable" is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've heard in quite a while. If you think that SHL alone made Flaco at the top of God Tier, then you're clearly mistaken. If you want to ignore his crazy spike, constant drillshine/pillar pressure, massive vertical combo game (which works wonders on Falcon), then be my guest.

And btw, have you been to a tourney before? Because it seems kind of obvious that you don't recognize the matchups very well.

 

[Pat/Pro]

Captain falcon is considered good against marth ken says its actually in cfs favor but I dont think that is true. And he does decent against peach (but not considered a peach counter). And foxes shine definitely isnt the only think he has on him. What about things like foxes recovery being 100 times better. And Shiek is definitely NOT even with falcon. Shiek is captain falcons biggest counter by far. She is one of the main reasons that cf does so bad in tourneys.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

56k do you main them?

Yeah I do

who can't Ice Climbers chaingrab?
and I mean like down air chaingrab
forward air chaingrab
and infinte grab

Not counting infinite grab or nana tap reset, I don't think Samus, Jigglypuff, Luigi and a few others (Mario, Doc, Kirby?) can be chaingrabbed.

Also, I agree that Falcon is decent against Peach. Neither strongly counters the other, and Falcon can give Peach a challenging fight. If anyone has the advantage though, it's Peach.

And Marth definitely isn't terrible against Falcon. Sure Falcon can combo the hell outta Marth but that doesn't make Marth terrible against him.

 

[Rage.]

Ill get Manalord to agree with me
Sheik is a good match up with Falcon.

Falcos Pillar is annoying and hard to get around
but its not nearly as bad as his SHL
which is what I meant
Falcos worst thing he has is his SHL against falcon

 

[Shai Hulud]

Captain falcon is considered good against marth ken says its actually in cfs favor but I dont think that is true. And he does decent against peach (but not considered a peach counter). And foxes shine definitely isnt the only think he has on him. What about things like foxes recovery being 100 times better. And Shiek is definitely NOT even with falcon. Shiek is captain falcons biggest counter by far. She is one of the main reasons that cf does so bad in tourneys.

I heard Ken say that on a VOD match between Isai and Azen on Pokemon Stadium. I think the CF/Marth battle is very stage dependent. On PS, DL, or FD, Falcon may have a very slight advantage, but on the small stages Marth has a large advantage.

 

[Scar]

lol you fail.

*nods in agreement*

 

[Shai Hulud]

show me people that think Peach Vs Falcon is a great match up for the Peach.

Let's see... Peach can chainthrow CF. Peach can CC => dsmash practically anything but a perfectly spaced NAIR. Peach has projectiles. CF cannot recover against a good Peach, at any percent, ever, and it's very easy for her to knock CF off the stage. CF, on the other hand, has difficulty edgeguarding Peach because of the ridiculous priority of the parasol and the fact that she can float back absurdly high. So what can CF do? CF can combo Peach pretty well, but if you don't get a knee before 100ish it can be hard to finish her off.

Marth is terrible against Falcon
Falcon is one of sheiks only even match ups
All falcos have are SHL which is easily avoidble
Fox's shine is the only thing he has on falcon, being able to wave shine a falcon perfeclty every time is almost impossible.

On small stages Marth completely ***** Falcon. Falcon cannot get back on the stage against a good Marth, ever. It's ARGUABLY close to even, but saying Marth is terrible against Falcon is ridiculous.

Falco's SHL is enough to completely destroy Falcon's pacing and approach. So Falcon is no longer fast, losing his main advantage. Falco is also very difficult to combo, and he can rack up absurd amounts of damage on Falcon with pillaring combos since Falcon is a fast-faller. CF cannot get back on the stage, ever.

Fox is just as fast as CF (almost) and has much easier combos--utilt, utilt, utilt, usmash, uair, uair, for example. You don't have to waveshine Falcon across the stage. Often one waveshine is enough to get him off, then a follow-up shine and Falcon is gimped.

 

[Kroy]

In order of most fatal to least fatal (IMO atleast):

Bad recovery.
Fastfaller = easy to combo
Only decent air priority
Slow get up animation.

C. Falcon is also a character that can easily loose do a technical error, especially flubbed DI's and techs (edgetechs in particular).

Other than that C. Falcon has a lot of good things going for him. That's why he's is High Tier after all.

 

[Abulize]

"All Flacos have are SHL which is easily avoidable" is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've heard in quite a while. If you think that SHL alone made Flaco at the top of God Tier, then you're clearly mistaken. If you want to ignore his crazy spike, constant drillshine/pillar pressure, massive vertical combo game (which works wonders on Falcon), then be my guest.

Agreed. Lasers aren't Falco's only advantage in his matchups.

 

[Scar]

You don't have to waveshine Falcon across the stage. Often one waveshine is enough to get him off, then a follow-up shine and Falcon is gimped.

Does he really have to say any more? If you haven't been killed at <20% by a Fox (completely turning the tide of the match and switching momentum as well) then you have yet to play a good Fox.

 

[g-regulate]

you have to tech chase combo everyone before they can kil you. the quicker you can complete combos without ****ing up, the better a chance you have against everyone. against really smart and good high tier players, you basically have to combo them nearly the entire match to have any shot of winning.