@MageofSymphonia I've merged your questions into the Zelda Q&A thread. It's here as a convenient place to ask questions about Zelda without having to make an additional thread. Please feel free use this thread for any further Zelda questions.
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Q&A "What if Zelda was a girl?" : Zelda Q&A COME HERE FIRST WITH YOUR ZELDA QUESTIONS.
- Thread starter BJN39
- Start date
Zylach
Smash Ace
Nayru's isn't a foolproof move. It's actually got intangibility frames starting on frame 5 to frame 11. The hitbox doesn't start until frame 13. That means you have a few frames where you're completely vulnerable. Very often, if my opponent has started a jab combo after my intangibility frames have started, we'll end up trading very often. That's the same reason you can be grabbed as the crystal is coming out. you're grabbed in those few frames of vulnerability but the move is still in its animation so the crystal will come out even though the hitbox doesn't since it was cancelled out by the opponent's grab. This happens a lot. I wish they would extend her I-frames to frame 13.
Zelda has some of the worst frame data on her normals in the game. Her fastest move is actually dtilt which starts frame 5. Her jab shouldn't be used as a reaction to get out of bad situations because it starts on frame 11. Jab is used as an approach stuffer, not like basically every other jab in the game. You should work on using dtilt under the circumstances that any other character would use their jab since it's faster. It does have 14 frames of endlag compared to jab's 9 though.
Zelda's shield comes out the same time as everyone else (frame 1). The problem you're probably having is that Zelda's endlag on all of her moves is garbage so she can't shield after her moves as quickly as most other characters. Zelda's grab data, however, is indeed worse than most of the cast. You actually hit the nail on the head there with frame 10 because Zelda's standing grab comes out on exactly frame 10 while her dash and pivot grabs come out on frame 11. Just to give you some context (And because I happen to currently have Robin's frame data open for whatever reason), Robin's standing grab comes out on frame 7, dash grab on frame 8, and pivot grab on frame 9. Those are all faster than ours. I think the compensation we're supposed to have there is that Zelda's got good grab distance compared to faster grabs. Ask any tournament level player, though, and they'll tell you that extra range on a grab isn't enough to compensate for it being slow because of how grabs are used in this game. Zelda's also got atrocious endlag on whiffed grabs too. She's got 27 frames of endlag on standing grab and 35 on dash grab.
Zelda's freefall state after FW is bad. She has very poor mobility after using the move. This is why Zelda players only ever snap to the ledge with it instead of recovering high because she can't fake out opponents after using her up-B like some characters can. That and her landing lag is brutal. As for going under stages, there are two possibilities here. The most likely one is that you're actually aiming it slightly off. Zelda's up-B follows walls. That's why you can aim straight up when you're under an angled stage and appear at the ledge instead of simply getting stuck under it. It's a good thing until you try and incorporate more angles into your recovery. Taking Battlefield for example, the angle underneath the ledge is fairly shallow meaning, if you input your up-B with an angle of 45 degrees not aimed straight for the ledge, Zelda will, instead, register as following the wall underneath the ledge and often follow it the wrong direction because you're angling FW such that she'll follow the wall in the wrong direction.
Think of it this way: when you angle FW to follow a wall, Zelda is programmed to follow the wall in whatever direction creates an obtuse angle between the direction you angled it and the slope of the wall you're following. So, say you've short hopped and plan to FW downwards and to the left on Final Destination. If you angle it 45 degrees down and to the left, you'll technically travel at that angle until you hit the ground. When you hit the ground, the angle you input and the angle of the ground can be seen as creating two angles, one being obtuse and the other acute. Zelda will follow the ground in the direction of the obtuse angle until she reaches her max distance or, if used offstage against a wall, snaps to a ledge. Since some stages have really shallow angles leading up to their ledges, aiming at a perfect 45 degree angle creates that obtuse angle in the wrong direction and will send you under the stage instead of to the ledge. There are two ways to fix this. 1) Only ever aim straight for the ledge with safe angles like 90 degrees or 180 degrees or 2) Refine your angles. The first option is easy but limits your recovery options because the opponent will soon catch on to what directions you teleport and can take advantage of that. The second option is difficult but really helps you mix up your recovery and can also help if you're in a tight spot offstage and need precise angling to get back.
Basically, Zelda can teleport in more directions than a GCN controller has notches. If you angle the control stick between notches, Zelda will teleport at an angle between those two degrees. Not only can she teleport at a 90/45/0 degree angle, she can teleport at a 22.5 and 67.5 degree angle. This helps when you're following a stage's underside to the ledge because you change that angle you make with the wall such that the obtuse angle is facing the ledge instead of death. A standard recovery angle for Zelda is that 67.5 degree angle between the top notch and the two notches on either side of that top notch since that angle completely nullifies the chances of you teleporting and following the stage underside in the wrong direction. That said, this is a very precise input and takes practice to get right as well as get right in such a fast paced situation as offstage play. To practice, just go into practice mode on a stage like Battlefield, go offstage, and angle FW in different directions, prioritizing those really precise ones, in order to get back to the ledge.
The second way you might be going under stages (And this is just because your wording is a bit vague) is that you're simply playing on stages where Zelda has trouble snapping to ledges at certain angles entirely. Those stages are ones that don't have a solid base to them like Delfino. Delfino's base during stage transitions (when you're on the grated platform flying over the island) isn't solid. While you can't phase through it while you're standing on top of it, you can phase through it when you're coming up from below it. This has some really weird properties associated with Zelda's recovery because there is no wall for her to follow meaning she doesn't auto-snap to the ledge. The auto-snap property only occurs with Zelda's recovery when she follows a wall. Since there isn't one on this part of the stage, she just continues going her full distance when she angles it at a 180 degree angle thereby going right past the ledge and ending up between the stage, thereby, falling to her death. Under these circumstances, you can only rely on teleporting straight up or at some other angle where you're low compared to the ledge. The only other tourney legal stage that acts like this is Halberd.
As for that Castle Siege problem, all I can say is Castle Siege is a dumb stage and dumb things happen a lot. I've actually never had that happen to me before but I'll watch out for it.
Sorry for the length of this response. I used to be a physics major in college so vectors, geometry, and angles are important
Let me know if you have any other questions or want clarification on that explanation/lecture lol
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I just wanted to mention that the Reflector actually starts on frame 5.
Zylach
Smash Ace
My badI just wanted to mention that the Reflector actually starts on frame 5.
Will fixedit: fixed
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StarForce
Smash Ace
Hello It me with questions again about the beauty Zelda. It's a lot so:
Din's fire:
Can and can not
N: Be reflected by another Nayru's love.
Y: Be countered by Peach's Toad (exp only).
?: Be Swallowed by Rosalina's Gravity Pull.
Y: Be countered by Lucy/Marth/Roy/Ike/Mii's Counter (exp only).
N: Be reflected by Mario/Dr's Cape.
Y: Be countered by Lucario/Greninja's counter (exp only).
?: Be reflected by Mewtwo's Reflect.
?: Be relfected by Fox/Falco/Mii's Reflector.
?: Be absorbed by Ness/Lucas/Mii's Psi shield/Shield
N: Be reflected by Palutena's Reflect.
Y: Be counterd by Shulk's Vision (exp only).
?: Be pocketed by Villager's Pocket.
?: Be absorbed by G&W's Bucket.
Y: Be countered by Mac's Counter.
?: Be reflected by Pit/Dark Pit's Guardian Orbitars.
?: Be taken? by Ryu's Focus Punch?
N: Nullify when colliding with another projectile.
Which ones are true or not regarding Din's fire? I've put some I think are since I don't get the chance to test them. Thank you for helping in advance with all of them if possible.
Din's fire:
Can and can not
N: Be reflected by another Nayru's love.
Y: Be countered by Peach's Toad (exp only).
?: Be Swallowed by Rosalina's Gravity Pull.
Y: Be countered by Lucy/Marth/Roy/Ike/Mii's Counter (exp only).
N: Be reflected by Mario/Dr's Cape.
Y: Be countered by Lucario/Greninja's counter (exp only).
?: Be reflected by Mewtwo's Reflect.
?: Be relfected by Fox/Falco/Mii's Reflector.
?: Be absorbed by Ness/Lucas/Mii's Psi shield/Shield
N: Be reflected by Palutena's Reflect.
Y: Be counterd by Shulk's Vision (exp only).
?: Be pocketed by Villager's Pocket.
?: Be absorbed by G&W's Bucket.
Y: Be countered by Mac's Counter.
?: Be reflected by Pit/Dark Pit's Guardian Orbitars.
?: Be taken? by Ryu's Focus Punch?
N: Nullify when colliding with another projectile.
Which ones are true or not regarding Din's fire? I've put some I think are since I don't get the chance to test them. Thank you for helping in advance with all of them if possible.
Din's can never be reflected back at Zelda. When it is "reflected", the explosion changes ownership, so if another person is right next to the reflector, they might get hit by the explosion. Very unlikely, however.
Din's will set off any counters. It won't damage them.
Reselli's Gravitational Pull has no effect.
It can't be pocketed by Villager.
G&W can absorb it. It's very powerful in his bucket, so watch out. It's a decent doubles strategy.
Ness and Lucas and absorb it for a large ount of healing. Don't let them do it unless they're your teammate.
Ryu's punch SHOULD be able to take one, since Din's isn't a multihit. The move might interact differently with projectiles so I could be wrong on this one.
Din's can clank with other projectiles AND certain moves. Peach's Nair and Zelda's own Dair are examples of moves that can nullify Din's. Usually Nair is the aerial that stops it.
Din's will set off any counters. It won't damage them.
Reselli's Gravitational Pull has no effect.
It can't be pocketed by Villager.
G&W can absorb it. It's very powerful in his bucket, so watch out. It's a decent doubles strategy.
Ness and Lucas and absorb it for a large ount of healing. Don't let them do it unless they're your teammate.
Ryu's punch SHOULD be able to take one, since Din's isn't a multihit. The move might interact differently with projectiles so I could be wrong on this one.
Din's can clank with other projectiles AND certain moves. Peach's Nair and Zelda's own Dair are examples of moves that can nullify Din's. Usually Nair is the aerial that stops it.
StarForce
Smash Ace
Alright with your explanation as I know it can be countered but just to evade damage from explosion. No worries there. Can't be properly reflected by reflectors or capes unless it changes as you say but unlikely. good. Villager and Rosalina are not threats sucking Din in. Nice to know. What I need to watch is the absorbers. Psi boys and the monochrome guy lol. I'll keep in Mind not to use it often vs Ness or Lucas. I don't see MRG&W often. How often do G&W's bucket projectiles? Like Din for example. Should I use it sparingly if necessary or will I be up for a bucketing instantly? Psi's are more around and likely to use the shield to absorb once in a while. G&W need to watch out for or can I surprise once in a while? And Ryu I'll manage around see what I come up with but may not be a problem I hope. Thanks for shining light on my questions thou I posed more in this gratitude message.
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Zylach
Smash Ace
You'll see the psi kids using their absorbers fairly often against you since they come out fairly fast and are actually kinda useful outside of simply absorbing projectiles. They can help to stall their falling speeds so their more conscientious about its existence compared to G&W who really has no use outside of his bucket other than to eat projectiles and not all characters have projectiles obviously. Don't expect them to not use it though. In all honesty, you shouldn't be using Din's too much in the first place. Counters are generally a bad idea to use against Din's since it puts the counterer into a long animation that we can possibly exploit and punish depending on how close we are to them but a counter against Din's will almost never hit Zelda. Using a reflector against it is also often a bad idea for the same reason. Expect people to just powershield din's if they can't absorb it.
StarForce
Smash Ace
Exactly. If possible I'll bait a counterist with din if they are a safe distance because din's lag ending animation isn't very nice on Zelda. I've abused that if I'm close with a good throw against other Zelda's. Either they get it, shield or roll or counter. so i can punish a roll or a counter. I don't use it much either. Thanks for the warning. It's not an everyday combo or defense tactic. Just a surprise or edge weapon. And even so tilts lightning kicks and a meteor are better anti back to stage moves than din. Thank you very much. Love coming here to get answers for Zelda.
Zylach
Smash Ace
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Thorina
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2015
- Messages
- 16
Hi, new here. All these boards are a bit confusing so hope I'm posting in the right place, haha. I'm having trouble dealing with really aggressive playstyles online (usually with Fox or Captain Falcon), the kind that are just on you constantly and never backing off. I end up using Nayru's to get them off me, but since they just immediately run back, I'm constantly using Nayru's, since I'm not sure what else to do in this situation. Is there anything else I can do to try to get them off/away from me?
StarForce
Smash Ace
Someone in here who knows will direct you way better but i'd like to tell you that there is a way since I'm pretty bad but manage my way. I do use Nayru and quickly a farore combo which goes well but you need to have the opponent on 30% or more. It may not be perfectly guaranteed but it sure helps to further launch the opponent and damage it no t to mention Farore can ko on certain percentages and will give you space to breathe and set up your game. If you see them running try to dodge or move back and punish or grab quickly. Try to keep them at bay if at a distance with din and phantom. if they are close do not use those moves the lending lag is mortal for you. Use most of Zelda's tilts and aerial better. Use side grab and a lightning kick combo or up grab and up air tilt for a din's touch. That's my extent of knowledge. Please consider greatly the response from someone else. This is what I do and Smash 4 is my first game so some \one else here may be a better treasure throve of info. Hope this helps in anyway. Oh and don't give up on Zelda! Hylian's Unite under one single Triforce!
Zylach
Smash Ace
Basically, you're asking how to deal with, literally, Zelda's worst MU's. There's no best answer here because Zelda struggles against rushdown characters. The key to beating them is to slow them down. If you let them play at their fast pace, then you won't be able to keep up and they'll control the pacing of the match. Nayru's Love, while effective on overly aggressive opponents, doesn't work very well on opponents that know how to bait it out and punish it. If you're facing a person that rushes you down unconditionally, then using Zelda's multihits like Nayru's or fsmash to stuff their approaches is the right way to combat them. However, people that smartly bait it out require more patience to fight. Don't be afraid to hold your shield up until your opponent uses an unsafe move against it. If your opponent is really grabby, test them by throwing out safe moves like jab which can stuff approaches while not being highly punishable itself (You just have to be more mindful of your timing since it doesn't last nearly as long as Nayru's and can still be punished if you're not careful).
Personally, I've actually been getting quite a bit of mileage out of phantom now that it's been fixed. Since it acts as a wall, rushdown characters will have to work around it (or risk running through it very slowly) so you can react to how they deal with phantom and punish them accordingly. Since phantom generally walls opponents out, it helps to slow them down giving you time to think and stopping their momentum. You'll have to get used to using phantom safely though. You should generally jump away from the opponent while charging it in their direction so you can get distance between yourself and a possible punish then release when you're close to or touching the ground. Since the new hitbox forces the opponent to react as opposed to just allowing them to run right through, you'll be able to take advantage of this reaction. Just be careful if the opponent starts jumping over the phantom since this is the best way to punish it as they don't have to shield and can immediately drop down on you while you're still in endlag.
The only other advice I can offer is to stay mobile. Staying in one spot for too long allows rushdown characters to pressure your shield without fear of you moving. I, personally, like to SH nair when an opponent is getting to close to comfort if I suspect the opponent is getting too smug against shield to show that I can cover myself with a mobile hitbox if they decide to do something stupid.
Chez G.
Yay...
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2013
- Messages
- 459
- NNID
- toomanygames64
I want to teach somebody how to use Zelda effectively as a beginner wanting to get better. However, I don't think Smash terminology will help at this point and I can't play with him online to help him due to crappy internet services. I was thinking of using replays to demonstrate an idea, such as approaching or combos. Any tips?
Zylach
Smash Ace
Is he familiar at all with other fighting games? If so, smash terminology isn't that far off from standard fighting game terminology. If not, you'd have to start from the ground up showing beginner tutorial guides. If he's already familiar with the game, show him our Zelda guide. It's good stuff.
Has there been any significant research done on punishing the ledge snap vulnerability frame as Zelda? Her lingering D-Air and Neutral-B seem like they would be solid tools for managing it.
Zylach
Smash Ace
You can go for dair. Hitting the sweetspot is usually really difficult though and sourspot oftentimes won't kill while also doing pathetic damage. I like taking advantage of ledge snap vulnerability with Nayru's Love and nair. Both do over 10% and can possibly end in a stage spike that isn't techable if you're on the right stage. Phantom can also do quite a bit of work now that it's got the travelling 0% hitbox. You can technically jump offstage and reverse the phantom so it's facing the ledge and send it straight towards the ledge. Its travelling hitbox will be out for quite a while and will pop the opponent into the sword swing hitboxes that should theoretically stage spike opponents but I've never gotten it as I don't try this often myself.
Does the 0% hitbox on Phantom Slash put opponents in hitstun? Is it limited to higher levels of charge?
The thing about N-Air is that it has big gaps between its hits (two frames of hitbox, two empty frames), but I can see it being useful as an air-to-air hitbox instead of catching the ledge snap invincibility.
I wonder if the latest D-Air sourspot in that situation ever has significant enough frame advantage where you could follow up with a footstool.
The thing about N-Air is that it has big gaps between its hits (two frames of hitbox, two empty frames), but I can see it being useful as an air-to-air hitbox instead of catching the ledge snap invincibility.
I wonder if the latest D-Air sourspot in that situation ever has significant enough frame advantage where you could follow up with a footstool.
Zylach
Smash Ace
The 0% hitbox does put the opponent in hitstun which is why it's able to pull people into the swing hitbox without fail. I agree with nair being the least effective option here. I should've mentioned that lol. The latest dair sourspot hitbox is the 4% hitbox which can be followed up with a footstool. The opponent ought to have their second jump though so it works on only specific characters.
Katy Parry
The Only Zelda in Indiana
THREAD MOVED HERE - "Bair is better than Fair right"
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It's frame 6, like, I've been hitting them more since I realized that I think
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It's frame 6, like, I've been hitting them more since I realized that I think
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MOI-ARI
Smash Ace
It comes out faster but has extra landing lag than fair I believe. But yeah speed is handy.^_^
Lately i have been trying for bair instead of Fair as well, i can say it definitely has its uses. haha
Lately i have been trying for bair instead of Fair as well, i can say it definitely has its uses. haha
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Yep, I think it's something like 3 frames faster startup for 3 more frames of endlag. It also has slightly more Base KB making it KO slightly earlier. You can also SHAD (short hop airdodge) it, which is actually really useful.
I personally find Fair easier to land, for some reason.
I personally find Fair easier to land, for some reason.
This really didn't need its own thread. Moving it into the Zelda Q&A...
Edit : Moved the thread into the Zelda Q&A. Pardon me if I didn't put the original title correctly word for word into the edit.
Edit : Moved the thread into the Zelda Q&A. Pardon me if I didn't put the original title correctly word for word into the edit.
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MOI-ARI
Smash Ace
Suicidal_Donuts
Smash Ace
Question:
Do we have tables up for when Elevator starts/stops working, and on when Sweetspot Dair (on grounded enemy-unteched) > Uair starts/stops working? I feel like there's an elevator one somewhere, but not a Dair > Uair one.
Do we have tables up for when Elevator starts/stops working, and on when Sweetspot Dair (on grounded enemy-unteched) > Uair starts/stops working? I feel like there's an elevator one somewhere, but not a Dair > Uair one.
Suicidal_Donuts
Smash Ace
If I have time, I might try to research on the Dair one and give the numbers to BJN so he can put them in a table.
D
Deleted member 189823
Guest
Hey gorls.
So, liek, questions:
- Is Jab any useful here? Like in Brawl, I pretty much only use it when I can't directly D-Tilt OoS (I'm not excellent with my fingers, lol).
- U-Tilt. What do you have to say about it? According to frame data, it's only a tad faster than in Brawl (Frame 6-7 in Smash 4, right?), so I guess it serves as a juggling tool? Does it even kill?
- F-Tilt. So it sort of kills...anything else? Seems a bit slow for an "anti-approach". I like it, and the fact that it can be used out of a Dash. Just wish I could use it more.
- Is "Roll-Cancelled Grab" still a thing, or did it get patched?
- ELEVATOR. Is this thing as broken as it sounds...and looks? I didn't have a hard time using it. Only have to make sure I'm pretty close to my opponent and have them commit to something on my shield. Or combo it off of N-Air?
So, liek, questions:
- Is Jab any useful here? Like in Brawl, I pretty much only use it when I can't directly D-Tilt OoS (I'm not excellent with my fingers, lol).
- U-Tilt. What do you have to say about it? According to frame data, it's only a tad faster than in Brawl (Frame 6-7 in Smash 4, right?), so I guess it serves as a juggling tool? Does it even kill?
- F-Tilt. So it sort of kills...anything else? Seems a bit slow for an "anti-approach". I like it, and the fact that it can be used out of a Dash. Just wish I could use it more.
- Is "Roll-Cancelled Grab" still a thing, or did it get patched?
- ELEVATOR. Is this thing as broken as it sounds...and looks? I didn't have a hard time using it. Only have to make sure I'm pretty close to my opponent and have them commit to something on my shield. Or combo it off of N-Air?
Jab- Jab is actually pretty great. True combos into Grab and Dash Attack on everyone, and Ftilt and Fair on floaties characters (that's right, Jab>Fair is a thing!). It can also set up Farore's tech chases and even Jab resets if they miss the tech. Disjointed and transcendent with good range, so it can stuff some approaches. Super low end lag for a Jab "finisher" (only 9 frames).
Utilt- Good move. Chains into itself easily at low %s, and the back hit (and front hit at certain %s) can combo into Uair (22% combo) or Nair. Good safe follow-up out of an early Uthrow, and even true combos on Fox (along with Usmash). Can true combo into Usmash at low %s for a good amount of damage. Back hit combos into Farore's at high %s for the KO (risky and somewhat impractical but it's there). Overall a good move in neutral and a nice antiair.
Ftilt- Just a "meh" move. It slightly outranges Fsmash, and it's 3 frames quicker. However it's less disjointed, and extends our hurtbox more. It's also less safe on block. Has a blind spot right in front of her. Sorta has a good angle. Best use IMO is pivoting it.
Roll cancel grab was patched. It's apparently still doable, but it's much harder and the reward isn't as big.
Elevator is pretty good. I don't think it's broken because
1. It's on Zelda
2. Zelda is a defensive character, so attackers should be punished hard for hitting her shield wrong.
3. It can be DI'd (hasn't happened to me very often though)
4. Missing is basically instant death.
It's extremely powerful with rage (KOing in the 30s) but if you miss, you're probably dead. It's frame 7 btw.
Yeah, the only true combos into the Elevator (that I can remember right now) are the falling/first hit Nair ones. Dthrow>Aerial Elevator (Escalator?) is a thing, but any amount if DI ruins it, plus they have to be at a high % (80+) and the aerial version doesn't hit straight up, so you have to aim more. I only use it when I'm trying to style, lol.
Try for Roll reads with it too, it looks super hype.
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Hope this answered your questions!
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D
Deleted member 189823
Guest
Definitely, thanks. I actually punished a roll or two with Up-B, it's pretty funny. However, it's worth noting it was friendlies (and that my opponents sometimes roll away predictably). What's that about D-Throw to aerials Up-B? I wanted to try to see if it was possible to have the first hit of Up-B combo up into the second (the one that kills), but apparently, it seems like it can only be done on the ground...
Also, is N-Air into U-Smash a thing at KO percentages!?
Also, is N-Air into U-Smash a thing at KO percentages!?
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It can be done in the air, but it's not really that practical. It's because the aerial Disappear has lower base KB, so they won't fly far enough until higher %s (and by that time a Dthrow Uair or a kick after an airdodge will finish them off) and a different hit angle (so aiming is harder). So yeah, I wouldn't try this unless you're just absolutely desperate or want to look cool.
Usmash can kinda combo...it's weird. I've gotten it to the combo before, but other times it hasn't. I find it to be a safer follow-up on characters who get sent into tumble by Nair's multihits (light ones like Jiggs and MewTwo) since they can tech the landing or even Attack you after their small bounce. The Usmash at this point wil cover the tech option and possibly the attack option depending on character.
Note that if you have rage, Nair might force a knockdown on heavier characters (where it wouldn't without), like Peach or Luigi.
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D
Deleted member 189823
Guest
Wait, D-Throw can combo to LKs at KO percentages? While we're at it- she has a HOO HAA?
The Hoo Hah only works if they don't DI completely to the side. But other than that it works on most characters except floaties.
Kicks don't combo. I was meaning you can bait an airdodge then punish with a kick at KO %.
Edit: The Hoo Hah has a really short combo window, so you have to be quick about it.
Kicks don't combo. I was meaning you can bait an airdodge then punish with a kick at KO %.
Edit: The Hoo Hah has a really short combo window, so you have to be quick about it.
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Pegasus Knight
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2007
- Messages
- 708
Can someone point me to a list of combos to get started with on Zelda? I looked at the combo thread but it's extremely preliminary and seems to be more detail-oriented than I really need at this time. I need a 'starter pack', and can worry about super-specific percentages later.
Here's a few that aren't too complex.
Jab>Grab
Jab>Dash Attack
Utilt>Utilt
Utilt>Usmash
Dthrow>Nair
Dthrow>Uair
Dtilt>Dtilt
Dtilt>Grab
Dtilt>Utilt
Pegasus Knight
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2007
- Messages
- 708
Thank you!
Crudele
Smash Apprentice
Does anybody ever go for ledge canceled FW? I feel like on an unsuspecting player, you could get them off stage, stand at 1/2 FD, maybe throw a din to pressure, then FW at the ledge.
If the player thinks it's safe to land on stage, they get hit by FW2. If they recover low, they could eat a mean dair after the ledge cancel.
Obviously risky as hell, but the style MIGHT be worth it if you're just doing friendlies!
If the player thinks it's safe to land on stage, they get hit by FW2. If they recover low, they could eat a mean dair after the ledge cancel.
Obviously risky as hell, but the style MIGHT be worth it if you're just doing friendlies!
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I had memorized the ledge cancel locations for like, 70% of Omega 3DS stages a while back. I think for me it becomes the issue of actually remembering to use it. I'd become really good at doing a JC FW ledge cancel, which was sick, and had great potential uses, but my infrequency of play causes me to forget to implement it in.
There is one potential risk I don't see brought up often. If you reappear into someone at ledge cancel range and they shield it, and you reappear closer to the edge than they are, you can overshoot and SD even if you were correctly lined up with the LC location, due to the inherent pushing property each character has. Just something I barely see brought up when it comes to ledge-cancelling as an attack tool. I'm pretty sure it's an actual thing, but it's pretty uncommon, but I think it can happen.
Basically don't do what you shouldn't be doing with it already lol.
Crudele
Smash Apprentice
Ideally the FW2 would come out before anyone can put up a shield, but a shield pushing people away from the ledge cancel sounds super real
I was daydreaming at work all day about how cool this would be to land haha. I might learn the right distances for common stages and try to use it on my friends for fun. Thanks!
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