what is known about sliding and how can we find a new wave dash?

[saviorslegacy]

A new wave dash could revolutionize SSBB.
It would give some characters a little bit of movement to where they could get those combo's in that were off by a few frames.

In this thread I will not be talking about how to perform a Brawl Wave Dash, but how we might find one.


To find one we must first understand how a Wave Dash or any dash/step for that matter works.



The Craqwalk
Why does this work?
When you land from the air you simply pivot and you will slide.
What is happening is you are getting momentum from the pivot and from you landing and that in turn stays with you after the turn is finished allowing you to continue sliding.
(Correct me if I am wrong.)


The Doopwalk
(I believe it is dopewalking.)
This is the same thing as a Craqwalk but on the ground.
The same principle's are here but you don't have the extra momentum that you gained in the air.


Brawl Wavedash
(That's what Godismyrock called it.)
This works by crouching and taking your momentum from your walk and making you slide backwards.


Wavedash
(Melee only)
In Melee you would jump and dodge into the ground. This would stop you from continuing the jump but it would allow the momentum that you just got from performing the jump to be used on the ground (aka, sliding).


Item Sliding
This is a simple concept.
If you are moving left or right, jump and hit Z to throw your item you will slide.
This is the exact same concept as Wavedash but this one is buffered.
You are gaining momentum by jumping (even though you don't leave the ground) and then canceling into the stage by throwing an item.


Shield Dashing
This is more like an honorable mention, and worth mentioning.
You seem to slide farther when the shield is pulled up and then released.




Now you are probably wondering why I made this thread.
I made this thread to pass information, and/or get people testing.

In custom controls you will find that the c-stick can be changed to anything. We have seen the Earthbound boys and how B-sticking has helped them out.
My question is "what else can we stick that can cause a glitch?".
There might be some custom control setting that allows us to gain a Wavedash.


There are three ways for us to have a Wavedash.

#1
A buffering dash. We could buffer something like dash attack + shield stick or something like that.

#2
Possibly glitch a dash and making it cancel resulting in momentum and you sliding.

#3
Finding a way to transfer your airial momentum to the ground without/barely leaving it.




In my attempts to grab-stick I made a discovery. It is not even close to being useful or being considered a tech. However, it does tell you that there might be hope for a Brawl wavedash.

If you set the c-stick to grab you can do the following.
Jump, then when you are on your landing frame hit the c-stick down to 5 o'clock/7 o'clock, hold the analog down in the same position as the c-stick and then hit shield.

You will perform a very small slide. About the length of one character and then you will immediately jump.
I can't make a video, but I really don't need too. I am only telling you this in hopes of encouragement.

If you want proof ask ___Velox_____. I showed him on wi-fi a little while ago.





Now go and test for yourself. Hopefully this thread will get someone to go in and mess around and discover something.
If you do, post it here before you make a new thread. We don't want to spam up the board with all kinds of "OMG I FOUND IT" threads. Once others are like "this is legit" then proceed to post it. If you don't have a camera then I will film it for you if I can get my brother to stop playing Halo. -_- (I'll just wait for him to sleep so yeah.) lol


Well, good luck! (and sorry if you consider this spam, if you do I ask you not to post anything here since it may discourage others).

 

[nicalobe]

To wavedash, just use Yoshi and learn DR :D. Nice to see you again SL.

 

[saviorslegacy]

To wavedash, just use Yoshi and learn DR :D. Nice to see you again SL.

Oops, I forgot to mention DR. It is a perfect example of canceling into the ground with airial momentum (and using a character with little traction).

Heeeeey! Haven't seen you in ever. We need to get back together again and Smash it up. I am down at the college everyday now so tell me when it is good and I'll meet you after my class's.
ps There is no need to spam up this thread so lets move to posting on each others profiles.

 

[Spelt]

i don't understand why the DR is called DR, shouldn't it be called a DJC? :|
oh well.

i think the most possible way to find a wavedash in brawl is by finding more "complex" versions of yoshi's DR.

 

[saviorslegacy]

i don't understand why the DR is called DR, shouldn't it be called a DJC? :|
oh well.

i think the most possible way to find a wavedash in brawl is by finding more "complex" versions of yoshi's DR.

DR= Dragonic Reverse
Why call it anything else when it has such a bad *** name?


EXACTLY! Thing is finding it. That is why this thread is here. To get people to help search for it.

 

[Zankoku]

It's actually not called a DJC because it's not a DJC. Since it's character specific, the word "dragonic" is allowed in the term, and there we go.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Dash Attack Cancel Up-smash/item toss

Most characters if I recall actually slide further when charging Up-smash from a Dash. Luigi is the most obvious example of this.

 

[.AC.]

you can also slide long distances if you are footstooled while rolling or doing a get up roll.

 

[Kitamerby]

You can cancel your dash turnaround animation with an attack to get a sliding normal move, easiest with charged smashes, but also possible with jabs, tilts, grabs, and crawls.

Examples of characters who do this well are Bowser and Squirtle.

Squirtle's dash-turnaround animation though has special properties that allow some severe exaggerated slides on all moves but dtilt and ftilt. Even a forward-traveling usmash with an absolutely preposterous slide is possible, although I don't believe this works nearly as well for any other character.

Also, it's "Doopwalking," not "Dopewalking."


Also, I still think DR should be called Waveyoshing.

 

[salaboB]

Also, I still think DR should be called Waveyoshing.

I support this rename.

It is epic.

 

[Spelt]

It's actually not called a DJC because it's not a DJC. Since it's character specific, the word "dragonic" is allowed in the term, and there we go.

well i'm not sure what the exact definition of a djc is but it seems the closest thing to it. xD

where does the name "dragonic reverse come from" though? doesn't seem to have anything to do with the tech to me. D:

i'm not trying to argue here D: just trying to understand.
sorry for being so naive.

 

[Phantomwake]

CMIIR
but doesn't Melee wavedash momentum come from the air dodge and not the jump unless you are thinking about wavelanding where it could come from both.

 

[saviorslegacy]

CMIIR
but doesn't Melee wavedash momentum come from the air dodge and not the jump unless you are thinking about wavelanding where it could come from both.

IDK, I am no expert. If someone says I'm wrong I'll just edit it.

 

[MysteriousSilver]

Using a glide attack right at the ground causes Pit to slide some distance. This is probably because the glair is totally lagless, so there's nothing to cancel the momentum out.

 

[choknater]

LOL dragonic reverse is indeed a badass name

 

[CRASHiC]

I'll tell you what's known, ADHD gets 54% combo on Snake with sliding.

 

[Minwu]

Using a glide attack right at the ground causes Pit to slide some distance. This is probably because the glair is totally lagless, so there's nothing to cancel the momentum out.

It is because Pit's glide attack specifically has a forward push of its own independent from the glide. If you're used to using MK's you'd be able to tell the difference.

 

[Cirno]

I don't think we're going to be finding a universal wavedash technique in Brawl, simply because the mechanics for it are no longer there. A bit pessimistic perhaps, but searching for a new one seems like a waste of time.


The idea of a new form of movement however seem pretty win.

As long as we focus on what is available to us, and try not to box ourselves in with searching for something similar to wave dashing alone, we might find one.

 

[Zankoku]

well i'm not sure what the exact definition of a djc is but it seems the closest thing to it. xD

where does the name "dragonic reverse come from" though? doesn't seem to have anything to do with the tech to me. D:

i'm not trying to argue here D: just trying to understand.
sorry for being so naive.

DJC, Double Jump Cancel, is a term that comes from Smash 64, applies to Melee, and was removed from Brawl. It is a technique that can be used by Ness, Yoshi, Mewtwo, and Peach. Basically those four characters will immediately stop rising from their second jumps the moment you perform an aerial.

The Dragonic Reverse is jumping, immediately double jumping, then immediately performing an aerial that moves Yoshi lower than the double jump so that he immediately lands again. There is then a small slide from the landing that is much more significant when moving backward, hence the "Reverse." "Dragonic" is a reference to Yoshi allegedly being a dragon.

 

[Zaffy]

Ummm, Lucas has a bitta sliding going on, if you know what i mean

 

[saviorslegacy]

I'll tell you what's known, ADHD gets 54% combo on Snake with sliding.

O-o
Well... that is with Banana's, but point made.

I don't think we're going to be finding a universal wavedash technique in Brawl, simply because the mechanics for it are no longer there. A bit pessimistic perhaps, but searching for a new one seems like a waste of time.


The idea of a new form of movement however seem pretty win.

As long as we focus on what is available to us, and try not to box ourselves in with searching for something similar to wave dashing alone, we might find one.

No need to insult, but I think we will find one. Just my opinion.
The mechanics are there, we just need to learn how to cancel into the ground.



ps I'm not sure what it is, but you can slide by grab sticking. When you land hit the grab stick to a certain direction and you will slide where your original momentum was going (this includes sliding backwards).
You can also air dodge right before you hit the ground and then input the grab stick.
(Real close to what I was doing above.)
If you are standing almost without moving left or right it will make you jump after you slide a little bit.

I still say it's not that useful since buffering a dash provides more movement.

 

[YoshiIslander77z]

Dagonic Reverse = translation of japanese word.
karamrity found it not an American yoshi

 

[DarkAura]

seriously when it is found if it's found i think it's gonna be some sort of advanced DAC move, i "wavedash" in brawl by pivot wave grabbing (i think thats what it's called)

 

[Xebenkeck]

I have a question, why is it only upsmash can cancel a dash attack. Cause if other moves can that would be it right there.

 

[DarkAura]

grabs can cancel dash attacks aswell and i have a hunch theres more than just that

 

[saviorslegacy]

grabs can cancel dash attacks aswell and i have a hunch theres more than just that

If you could cancel a DA with a jump we would have a reverse waveland. <,<

 

[shadowdsfire]

Peach can wavedash easily, simply doing a ... Wavedash ... like in melee . It is a small wavedash but help if you want to do a smash when you are running...

 

[PFANT]

Charge smashing forward, with the c stick and z, out of characters dash turn around animation gives some characters a really good slide like toon link and yoshi. Here is an old video of it by SamuraiPanda

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZg0f8RTMOg

Now here is where this gets interesting, you all know how you can dash off the edges of courses and platforms right? Well you can also dash and perform the turn around animation right at the edge instead of simply running off.

Enter a smash during this turn around animation at the edge and you get what i believe to be a longer slide out of pandas tech. Try this with toon link to get the timing down. his down tilt shows an extremely prominent slide as well as charged down smash.

from this tech i also found another interesting thing to note. it is pretty crazy so it might be hard to explain with no video

if you push A or B at the right time with Link or Toon link during the dash turn around animation on the edge, the jab/ arrow animation gets canceled. like you can see the very very beginning of a jab or arrow about to start (Link will lean forward and do this funny animation that is hard to explain) but then nothing happens and you just slide. The links arn't the only characters that get this funny animation but they are the easiest to make it occur.

Edit: if you are trying to get the weird animation i'm talking about press A or B right after you see toon link turn around at the edge

sorry if this isn't making any sense if you try it and can't get it to work post back here and i'll try to be clearer. But basically i think i just figured out a way to cancel jabs and neutral B out of the dash turnaround animation

 

[Cold Fusion]

My theory is that even if a Brawl wavedash is not found, we might find some other techniques that might be useful.

 

[Kitamerby]

Peach can wavedash easily, simply doing a ... Wavedash ... like in melee . It is a small wavedash but help if you want to do a smash when you are running...

That's not a wavedash at all! That's just spamming her landing animation, idjit! It's no slide, you're only moving because you're dropping insta-floats. The actual tech name is "Spazzing Out," iirc.

grabs can cancel dash attacks aswell and i have a hunch theres more than just that

Wrong. The only reason both grabs and usmashes can be used out of dash attacks is because those are the only two options other than a dash attack that can be used out of a dash. I believe DACUS and boost grabbing is a result of the start-up IASA that all moves have.

 

[CRASHiC]

Can't you also use upb out of dash as well?

Also, this needs to be researched.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cddu3wDbayw

If this isn't caused by the push back of pk fire combined with bstick, then it must have applications in some form with other charecters.

Also, we already have our wavedash, at least Marth does. Its called pivot walking.

 

[Kitamerby]

Can't you also use upb out of dash as well?

Oh snap you're right.


Does anyone have a good DACUB? <<

 

[CRASHiC]

B sticking is vastly overrated. Imagine, playing as King DDD, you see Metaknight come with the tornado. You jump forward, bstick your jet hammer, and move out of the MKs range and bstick him. Of course, this can't be done multiple times in tournament. This is just one of many uses for it. It makes your range and movement in the air rather unpredictable.

 

[The Sauce Boss]

Stop trying to find melee AT's in brawl. Start trying to find brawl AT's.

 

[Phoenix~Lament]

You can up+anything and grab out of a dash because there are four (?) things you can do while dashing.

Stop dashing, shield, jump, and grab.

Because inputting Up counts as a jump, you can then Usmash and Up+B because you're jump-cancelling your dash, and immediately performing an Up+move.

Edit: Forgot that you can dash attack. You can also immediately stop and do like Side+B or something but that's kinda irrelevant.

 

[scorekid100]

just wondering is there any difference between glide tossing and item sliding or are they the same and just alternate names?

 

[saviorslegacy]

That's not a wavedash at all! That's just spamming her landing animation, idjit! It's no slide, you're only moving because you're dropping insta-floats. The actual tech name is "Spazzing Out," iirc.



Wrong. The only reason both grabs and usmashes can be used out of dash attacks is because those are the only two options other than a dash attack that can be used out of a dash. I believe DACUS and boost grabbing is a result of the start-up IASA that all moves have.

No need to call him an idiot. That will only start a fight. (BTW, I love you cuz I thought I was the only one that said idjit.)

As Pheonix stated, you can also, jump, shield (which I think you can auto roll as well... not sure if it is counted as a shield) and B moves.

Can't you also use upb out of dash as well?

Also, this needs to be researched.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cddu3wDbayw

If this isn't caused by the push back of pk fire combined with bstick, then it must have applications in some form with other charecters.

Also, we already have our wavedash, at least Marth does. Its called pivot walking.

I saw that before.
I wonder if there is a connection between that and the Flight of Ganon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01d8HrjkOi8

You can do it without b-sticking. I used to alt Lucas and I always used this for recovery.


K, you can keep your pivot "walking" while we work on our "dashing" glitch.
The #1 bad thing about pivot walking is that it is hard to perform, slow, doesn't provide much movement and you are limited on what you can do while using it.
And yes, I can do it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQrpbVIoYrw

Stop trying to find melee AT's in brawl. Start trying to find brawl AT's.

We aren't trying to find Melee AT's.
Wavedash and all other dash's have the same basic principle "transferring momentum".

I am experimenting with grab sticking and getting results.
(no hype)
I know very little right now, but it does make you slide.

I'll report anything that is worth reporting.

just wondering is there any difference between glide tossing and item sliding or are they the same and just alternate names?

glide tossing= Shield + c-stick throw item

item sliding= canceling a jump (and thus transferring momentum) with an item toss

 

[DUCKAtl]

wow i cant believe y'all are just figuring this out, dude it was in the freaking E3 trailer

 

[saviorslegacy]

wow i cant believe y'all are just figuring this out, dude it was in the freaking E3 trailer

uhhhh... what was in the E3 trailer?
There has been talk about a lot of things in this thread, we need specifics.

 

[Kitamerby]

No need to call him an idiot. That will only start a fight. (BTW, I love you cuz I thought I was the only one that said idjit.)

Idjit =/= idiot. I say idjit when I'm not being serious. Probably should've added a jk or something. :<