What makes a good custom tournament stage?

[Gorgapor]

The stage builder will allow us to make stages perfectly balanced for tournament play. So now that we have the ability to make them ourselves, what makes a good tournament stage?

My first thought is to list the things that make stages bad for tournaments.

- supports camping or delay of game
examples from melee: hyrule, yoshi's island 64, fourside, venom

- gives certain characters a large advantage over others
examples: brinstar depths, flat zone, great bay

That's all I can think of for now. So does that basically mean we should design stages that lack these things? Yes, but new tournament stages should also keep the gameplay interesting, without having these flaws.

Can anyone add to this, or correct me if i'm wrong?

(BTW, the feasibility of using custom stages in tournaments is already being discussed here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=123181
so please keep the discussion relevant to ideal design of stages.)

 

[slayert3ch]

I think that with this update we will be able to Yes make more bbalenced stages. But the sharability of these is a big concern.....UGh

 

[Falling Whistness]

I imagine it won't be that hard for a well-organized tournament to have a couple dozen SD cards and make sure that all the Wiis receive one.

Still, most tournies will probably stick to the standard stages, saving some cool custom stage just for the final.

 

[MetaKnight0]

I doubt tournaments would craft stages specifically for tournament play. Rather, I think a player would create an awesome stage that is adapted by tournaments instead.

Map distribution is harder with SD Cards then it is online in such veins as UT or Halo, which makes it harder to make a custom map popular.. So I don't think custom maps will be as popular for tournament play as people think.

 

[Jazriel]

If you can put it on your SD card, can't you go from computer to SD card? Then the tournament site/thread could merely have the map for download.

 

[Gorgapor]

come on guys, let's assume for a second that custom tournament stages CAN work, and talk about how to design them as good as possible.

 

[plasmatorture]

If you can put it on your SD card, can't you go from computer to SD card? Then the tournament site/thread could merely have the map for download.

I'm almost 100% sure you can.

A good tournament level will be a floating platform in the middle that's completley flat and utterly boring.

 

[Adi]

A good tournament level will be a floating platform in the middle that's completley flat and utterly boring.

Another ignorant casual to add to the list.

If you can put it on your SD card, can't you go from computer to SD card? Then the tournament site/thread could merely have the map for download.

Yes I believe this is possible.

As far as the question goes we can probably bring back some of the old stages from previous games and rework some of the imbalanced stages to make them better for tournament play. It has the potential to be great for tournament play, however I feel that just because of the fact that every Wii will need the specific set of levels, I doubt any custom levels will be used.

 

[TheFifthMan]

Hmm, are we talking neutral or counterpick? And let's not limit ourselves to simply what makes a stage bad; let's see what makes a stage good and try to promote it.

 

[c4rn1f3x]

Its hard to estimate this without a thorough understanding of the game and its meta, but the most popular stage in melee tourneys was final destination, just a wide open space that doesn't favor anyone (except falco) or have any random stuff to blow you up. Simplicity is key, although flat space might not be the best option, considering this game's emphasis on aerial combat.

 

[Paingel]

Ah, well you could have different stages for different match-ups. Yes, some custom stages can be made to favor certain characters, but I don't see that as a bad thing.

Some stage ideas: A stage that favors aerial play. Instead of having one "main" platform stage at the bottom (like most Melee stages) you can have maybe 3-5 solid (can't pass through them by hitting down) platforms at the bottom of the map. These platforms can be seperated by a space or two to make it so that you HAVE to jump around in order to travel around the stage. Also, there can be a large number of pass-through platforms symmetrically distrubuted in the air, but make them big enough to stand on and yet don't make them too close together. Doing a map this way will pretty much force characters to do an aerial approach. Also, you can add a "roof" to the map full of solid blocks to stop the higher platforms from being too dangerous to stand on. Perhaps the roof can have holes in it as well, to allow for Star KOs, but position the holes so that you have to be airborne (or at least not standing on the higher platforms) in order to score that KO.

There would actually have to be a lot more thought put into it than just that, but that's the general idea. A map that favors a particular play style (aerial combat)... But at the same time you don't want it to be pigeon holed so you may want to make accomidations for the other kind of attacks. The mindgames here would be about "can I hit him before he ADs/Up+Bs? Is he going to attack from an angle that gives him a better aerial attack? Can I land on the platform that he's on and smash him when he comes close? Will I be able to stop him from getting on my platform?"

Yikes, but then that could lead directly to camping by characters with projectiles... Maybe putting a stage hazard up there to screw up those who stay on one of the platforms for too long. That will stop camping right out, if such a thing is possible through triggered events or what have you. Another solution is to simply have the platforms appear and dissappear according to a particular schedule.

Another idea is this: Have a large solid platform with a gap in the middle, and below that gap is a collection of 3 platforms arraged like the platforms in Battlefield. Getting knocked down into the hole won't immediately KO you, but it allows someone to FF in after you and hit you when you get back up. Also, you can have two more platforms, one off each side of the main platform and elevated slightly, for the purpose of making it easier to recover from some angles.

And for a severely WTF stage: Remember the part in Super Mario Brothers, near the end of World 1-2, where there were those two sets of platforms, one going up and another going down? Make that into a stage. That I would like to see. Only make it so that the platforms move up and down so fast that you HAVE to keep jumping until you hit solid ground.

Actually, this is a very entertaining topic. Thinking about the strategic possibilities behind each stage can be quite interesting.

 

[veil222]

All I know is I'm making another SSB65 Hyrule castle that's balanced. Loves that stage.... it was the pokemon stadium of 64.

My idea for a wtf stage... looks like this
x spike wall
_| walls
. open space

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
x.. -------.....--------. x
x..|...................|.x
x..|...................|.x
x..|...................|.x
x..|_____________|.x
x........................x
xxxxxxx...... xxxxxx

A box with one opening, with a spike box on the outside of that with one opening. Would be fun to even see if ko's are possible.