what should I do with Falco

[7thFonon]

Just have a question with falco and Link. I can't seem to find any effective way to attack him (example - short jump + fA/bA) since his lasers stop me in my tracks every time. Any suggestions?
Here's my vid....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwvoaW-FfzE

 

[Niko_K]

I would suggest stop using your hookshot as much since it let him come in for some attacks, also for his lasers just shff over them. If hes an offensive player use some shield grabbing to setup some good combos....

And Projectiles!

 

[Namiel]

Be more careful with your hookshot! You missed a lot of grabs, and that hurt a lot in that match. It was really noticable early on. You look like you have a compulsive shield grabbing habbit, which I understand because I do too >.> Try to break yourself of it. Perhaps shorthop from shield and sex kick. Just make sure if you shield grab, it's on something you're likely to get him off of (like a fsmash) rather than catching him landing from a jump or air attack, which he can probably L-cancel and dodge before you grab him if he hits your shield.

Second, remember your spacing. You have more range than Falco and in general your standard moves have more priority or at least as much if I'm not mistaken.

Be careful about approaching from really high in the air. I don't know if it's just not my style or if it's just not a good idea against Falco, but it seems like a good way to get punished by uair something. I noticed quite a few times you did that: double jump -> fast fall -> fair. Besides, you should try to save your second jump when you can if you need it for recovery.

Throw more projectiles! The boomerang is your friend. You should be able to get out of the way well enough if he reflects it, and it'll break up his rhythm/leave him open/delay him if you do. Let you move into a better position. Projectiles are as much a wall to keep your opponents from advancing on you as they are a means of racking up damage.

If you do grab him, throw him UP. It's a lot easier to combo Falco that way because he's such a fast faller. Concentrate on juggling him with up throws, up tilts/smashes, and up airs. Easiest way to rack up damage on space animals.

 

[Umby]

If he gets in close from his laser spamming tactics, upsmash out of the shield, and jab, or space a fair and jab. Either way you can probably connect downsmash when you're done.

Also, try the search function to find threads like this before lightshade loses your favor.

 

[Jiho]

Namiel covered most of it, but I would also add that up-b out of shield is deadly too, just be careful not to use it after L-cancelled attacks. If you're gonna use down throw, expect him to tech it and chase him and grab him again. Don't use the down throw to up-b until he's above 100 at least, otherwise he'll tech it, but it's almost a guaranteed kill at high percentages with falco cuz he'll bounce so high.

Important: when getting knocked of the ledge, press left-right repeatedly as if you were dash dancing. This will give you a mid-air recovery with out using up a jump and therefore you can hookshot back. I also recommend MANY MORE BOMBS; a favorite tactic of mine is to throw a bomb or boomerang or both when recovering to prevent edgeguarding.

Finally, any time falco's firing up to get back, look for an oppurtunity to jump off and n-air him.

 

[Gomi]

fake air atks work well. lik how cannon double jumps and steps on your face!!! same with link and a lot of other characters just get som mind games and mind bone your opponent

 

[Jiho]

watch oni vs adhd on youtube.

 

[hero_link]

Finally, any time falco's firing up to get back, look for an oppurtunity to jump off and n-air him.

ah yes the edge guard sex kick.............. simple and easy!

more risk but more effective edge guarding = bair, 2nd jump, nair, upB to ledge

 

[algandar88]

you should use that hookshot alot less nd use more projectiles u have to use all of links moves...keep distance and look 4 an opening if they keep chasin u the use shield grabbing or up b out of a shield

 

[lime_backwards]

You definitely need more projectiles. It helps to leave your opponents guard down. Also, if you do end up grabbing Falco, you can tech chase him with the hookshot if you down-throw him. It may only work a couple of times, but it can be done.

 

[Sliq]

I can't watch this video right now, so I'll have to wait until later to comment.

 

[Dark Visions]

I'm sort of a newer player but I main link while my friend mains falco. One of the most effective ways I've found of approaching him is f-air and n-air mixed in with a lot of projectiles. the falco will either shield or reflect the projectiles, just hop over or run under the reflected projectile, throw another one (purposely miss) and either grab him or get a f-air in. If you opt to throw him, throw him up and follow with a quick up tilt (can usually get 2-3 in before they can DI away) and then depending on how they DI either tech chase for another grab or get under them and do a quick up smash.

Another throw combo I like to do happens when falco is at around 50%, down throw into a down smash. Sometimes it will pop them up a bit and allow for a follow up n-air/f-air/b-air. Once the falco gets to around 120% or so, down throw-up+b usually gets the kill or will with a small bit of edge guarding.

I would say you need to focus a lot more on projectile spam in your approach and be a bit more aggressive with your edge guarding when falco falls below the edge as his only option is up+b which leaves him very vulnerable for a n-air/b-air.

 

[7thFonon]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. And Namiel, the advice you gave me to throw him up helps a lot. I just throw him up then do up tilt+A for about 3 times, then I go for a stiff kick to knock him away. I'm still working on using my bombs since Falco's laser can knock them down, but sometimes I can drop one on top of him with Z, or at least force him to block.

 

[Gomi]

I'm sort of a newer player but I main link while my friend mains falco. One of the most effective ways I've found of approaching him is f-air and n-air mixed in with a lot of projectiles. the falco will either shield or reflect the projectiles, just hop over or run under the reflected projectile, throw another one (purposely miss) and either grab him or get a f-air in. If you opt to throw him, throw him up and follow with a quick up tilt (can usually get 2-3 in before they can DI away) and then depending on how they DI either tech chase for another grab or get under them and do a quick up smash.

Another throw combo I like to do happens when falco is at around 50%, down throw into a down smash. Sometimes it will pop them up a bit and allow for a follow up n-air/f-air/b-air. Once the falco gets to around 120% or so, down throw-up+b usually gets the kill or will with a small bit of edge guarding.

I would say you need to focus a lot more on projectile spam in your approach and be a bit more aggressive with your edge guarding when falco falls below the edge as his only option is up+b which leaves him very vulnerable for a n-air/b-air.

lol i like this guy

 

[Sliq]

Use platforms. When he SHL on the bottom floor, you should jump to the platform and simultaneously pull out a bomb. You can lob bombs over SHL into his face, disrupting his game. Plus, you can also hit him with the bomb as he jumps to SHL, giving you an opening to attack.

 

[Lightshade]

spam spam spam the projectlies mang. That's how it's done.

 

[Namiel]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. And Namiel, the advice you gave me to throw him up helps a lot. I just throw him up then do up tilt+A for about 3 times, then I go for a stiff kick to knock him away. I'm still working on using my bombs since Falco's laser can knock them down, but sometimes I can drop one on top of him with Z, or at least force him to block.

I think holding a bomb ought be enough to mess with the Falco alone. Make it look like you're going to throw it, but don't. Charge at him, double jump cancel fast fall, just mess with him for a bit If you get the chance when he puts up his reflector, drop it in the air with z and punish. Look up HDL's videos for some good projectile spamming techniques, BTW. And throwing a bomb from the shorthop should send it over his laser. Taking a laser for the bomb is definitely a worthy tradeoff anyway even if it ruins the follow up combo. If you're quick, you should be able to use a double jump to get on top of him after throwing a bomb.

Whatever you do, just make sure you keep him guessing! Mix it up. If he's not sure when it's coming, where it's going, or where you'll end up afterwards it's all the easier to pressure him. Shorthop -> bomb -> land and grab if he shields/sidesteps it. If you see him advancing, jump back and toss it up into the air sometimes if you have time. One more thing he has to worry about avoiding and it limits and air approach. Just plot your own possibilities and write them down even to just look at them once in a while until you have it well enough in your mind to just attempt in a match on whim.

 

[AKZuM]

MORE BOOMERANG! it stops his attacks and lets you get a hit in to begin a combo
and learn to use all the air attacks......THEN SHFFL THEM!!!!

Side Note: be a good edgegaurder against falco(his recovery sucks)

 

[AKZuM]

oh yea..and you do too much unecessary wave dashing

 

[XEM]

Try Slapsticks.
Ultimate technique

 

[AKZuM]

4 days.....no posts WoW

 

[St. Viers]

cause your question has been answered, pretty much.

 

[Crooked Crow]

I wouldn't go for too many grabs against Falco, because if they are even a little bit off the ground when you shoot the hookshot, it misses, and Falco's a very.. jumpy character..
Only use it if you know for sure it will be a successful grab.

Needs more n-airs and jabs. Needs less hookshot and wavedashing.
You should edgeguard Falco anytime you get the chance. It's the easiest way to get kills off him.
N-air or Double N-air off the stage works really good on Falco.

 

[BrimeZ]

I going to say what I think hasn't been said on this thread yet.

1) You were trying to fight fancy for the camera. Wrong time to do it while fighting against a Falco. You were Wavedashing while Falco was on the other side of the stage. He was no where near you and you didn't have a bomb in your hand. That one of the big reasons why he catches you in the SHL.


2) You could have recovered a little better. The Falco you were facing didn't bother to use the u air while you were recovering. He was waiting for you to get near the stage. You could have pulled a bomb and distracted him or something.

3) Use the spin attack less.

4) Shffl the kicks more

 

[triforceofcourage787]

like everyone said.

to many missed grabs

and to little projectiles thrown

i also saw a lot of unnecessary wavedashing..

 

[d_shep04]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. And Namiel, the advice you gave me to throw him up helps a lot. I just throw him up then do up tilt+A for about 3 times, then I go for a stiff kick to knock him away. I'm still working on using my bombs since Falco's laser can knock them down, but sometimes I can drop one on top of him with Z, or at least force him to block.

I CANT BELIEVE THAT YOU WENT AND ASKED THESE PEOPLE WHO TO BEAT ME... lol... Rob... you should have come to me first and i would have explained all my weakness's to you with fox and falco... nevermind... i'll just send you a message on facebook... i hope you've been practicing in melee for pound 3 and naruto... i'll see you later man... i'll send u a message now.. talking 2 quinn...

 

[technomancer]

lol i like this guy

Me too that was some good shizzle for the link forums


Ok, here's what I saw:
1) Not a bad link
You played pretty good but missed alot of stuff, which leads me to #2
2) Pay attention
Pay some attention to what your opponent is doing. You're not. You're playing him like you wanted to play someone else but had to settle for him. Get in there and man up and bring the pwnage, this isn't a game of move beats move it's a game of player beats player. You gotta be in it to win it.
3) Learn your attack timings and spacings.
Grab especially. Link's shieldgrab is never automatic, you have to time it perfectly so they'll still be in landlag when it hits, so you can only use when Falco doesn't fastfall correctly, he misses (grab early, remember it should hit him AS he lands, and Link's grab is kinda slow).
4) More stuff off of Falco's techs
When he techs, it should be an auto-grab unless he techs away from a forward hitting attack. Even if he techs on a platform.
5) Get faster
Don't float there after you've already hit him with your aerial, fastfall that ****. Shield grab faster, learn to do faster stuff like wavealanding, get running AS SOON AS YOU HIT THE GROUND, L-cancel everything, even if your timing is off on whatever you just did get the cancel.
Work on your reflexes too. Everything should be done as soon as it needs to be done, not 10 frames later.
6) Low % vs. High %
Don't land down airs at low %,because it takes like an hour to recover from, instead, use N-airs. Same thing with the Up-B, instead, use your up-tilt, grab, and jab.
7) Control
control, control, you MUST LEARN CONTROL! </yoda> Always be trying to embarass your buddy, make him think twice about attacking you, and just get your hits in by being super-patient. You can never feel like you have to wiggle your way out of tight situations vs. Falco, always just be cool and take it like a man on your shield until you can get out of it and bring it back into your house.
8) I'd like to see more bombs
They're pretty good, jump away and pull one.

 

[Sliq]

I don't get why everyone says not to try and grab with Link a lot. His grabs **** Falco.

Even if you miss a grab and get punished, you are playing as Link. You are either going to have to play really well (i.e. way better than your opponent to make up for the tier difference), or be risky. Near an edge, Link can gimp Falco at 0%. All it takes is grab, back throw, shff a bair over the ledge, double jump nair, hook shot recovery. Thew second hit of bair will hit him out of his double jump, and the nair will hit them farther away, and you get to the ledge before them with the hook shot.

At mod percents you can juggle the bajesus out of him with an up throw, and when you aren't near edges at low percents, down throw and forward smash. If they tech in place they eat both hits for 30%. If he techs away, you can land the second hit with good timing. You could alternate the with downsmash, bur charge it slightly to hit the tech in place or the tech behind.

Link needs to grab to win, otherwise they'll just turtle in their shield all ****ing day.

 

[d_shep04]

why you put that stupid video up man... i was not playing serious... UGHHH... nooo... now people are gonna think im a noob... lol... whatever... you need 2 put those better vids up... no never mind... next semester i'll post the good vids of us up.... that' hurts my feelings just watching that vid...

and rob... these people are basically telling you the same thing that me/matt/ and quinn tell you... one "YOUR" wavedashing is not effective because you are not doing anything... just using it as a form of escape... i've should you what you should do against me... when i played against randell... you basically need to go relearn the basics... and timing with link... i can help you with that.... if i watch a couple of link vids... then i'll tell you what they are doing that you are not doing when they face off against falco/fox... you got a LOT of potential man... but YOU JUST DONT LISTEN 2 ME AND MATT... stop wavedashing... you can easily run away instead of trying to wavedash... and you need 2 improve your mind game... i can basically predict what you are about 2 do... so i always have something 2 counter your move (plink) we got 2 get you pound 3 ready man... we cant have you rolling with the boys sucking... lol... and i'll teach you some stuff with marth also...just dont give up man...

 

[OcarinaLink]

My thoughts:

- Some things I liked: you're using sex kick, which is good. Probably his best aerial against a SHL spamming Falco. Also, you're punishing Falco when he doesn't sweetspot the edge with a spinspike.

Some improvements:
- Shield-grab less) any experienced Falco will be too fast to fall for that trick, esp if it's a friend you play with a lot. Don't expect many grabs against a Falco in general, unless he's bad at L-canceling his aerials or he's turtling/shining.

- Punish Falco when you land a grab ) too many forward-grabs, when they should have been up-throws or down-throws. You know about the d-throw>Spin Attack, but don't rely on that combo much. It works half the time against space animals, and is actually useless against floaties. Consider up-throw > d-smash for fast fallers, or d-throw to up-tilt for when they're at moderate damage. For high damage, go for d-throw/u-throw > d-air to finish them off. You can still use a throw > Spin Attack, but make sure to switch it up.

- More projectiles, esp bombs) Link has a fantastic array of projectiles, so use them to control Falco's movement! I probably saw you pull out your boomerang maybe 5 times in the match, and no bombs at all! Who cares if Falco's lasers can block your bombs? By the time your bomb's deflected, you'll have stunned the bird with a boomerang, which should lead to some sexy SHFFL'ed attacks from Link.

- Move faster, with more efficiency) Move and attack like you mean it. I got the impression that there were tons of times where you felt you didn't know what to do next. Take control of the match, and do something! Don't let your friend juggle and mindgame you to death. A lot of times you got messed over, cause you weren't moving out of the way. Keep an eye on how your friend moves, find some patterns, and exploit them, whether it's a SHL to grab (you can counter this by baiting him and spot-dodging his grab) or pillar (DI the hell away, and TECH that crap) Move with a purpose, and don't throw out attacks without any meaning behind it.

- STOP WAVEDASHING ) it seriously hurts your game, makes you slower, and makes you waaay too predictable. Use the time that you're wavedashing to SH back and throw a boomerang, or even pull out a bomb.

Link is slow, by his very nature, so you have to take advantage of his aerials and his projectiles. You're not going to beat a Falco through speed, so you have to be more tactical than technical. Keep Falco above you, keep him stunned, and don't give him a chance to set up his game. That's the biggest weakness I saw from your vid. You've got the technical stuff down, but you don't have confidence in your tactics with Link. Start developing that, and you should see your style getting a lot cleaner and faster. Watch some Aniki videos and notice how he dispatches his top-tiers; those definitely help.

Oh yeah, consider hookshotting instead of up-b back to the edge. It gives you a lot more freedom in how you come back; otherwise, most Falcos will jump out and spike you without a moment's thought.

 

[OcarinaLink]

Even if you miss a grab and get punished, you are playing as Link. You are either going to have to play really well (i.e. way better than your opponent to make up for the tier difference), or be risky. Near an edge, Link can gimp Falco at 0%. All it takes is grab, back throw, shff a bair over the ledge, double jump nair, hook shot recovery. Thew second hit of bair will hit him out of his double jump, and the nair will hit them farther away, and you get to the ledge before them with the hook shot.

Sorry for double-post, but I wanted to point out that there's always a risk of edgeguarding Falco off the edge, mostly because of Falco's illusion, which spikes. Although, that is an interesting way to edgeguard Falco...I'll have to try it out some day XD

 

[Skler]

You shouldn't get killed by the illusion spike. You should be hitting through it with an aerial. Even if it does manage to connect it's pretty easy to meteor cancel, just don't mess up and it shouldn't be killing you.

 

[Sliq]

why you put that stupid video up man... i was not playing serious... UGHHH... nooo... now people are gonna think im a noob... lol... whatever... you need 2 put those better vids up... no never mind... next semester i'll post the good vids of us up.... that' hurts my feelings just watching that vid...

and rob... these people are basically telling you the same thing that me/matt/ and quinn tell you... one "YOUR" wavedashing is not effective because you are not doing anything... just using it as a form of escape... i've should you what you should do against me... when i played against randell... you basically need to go relearn the basics... and timing with link... i can help you with that.... if i watch a couple of link vids... then i'll tell you what they are doing that you are not doing when they face off against falco/fox... you got a LOT of potential man... but YOU JUST DONT LISTEN 2 ME AND MATT... stop wavedashing... you can easily run away instead of trying to wavedash... and you need 2 improve your mind game... i can basically predict what you are about 2 do... so i always have something 2 counter your move (plink) we got 2 get you pound 3 ready man... we cant have you rolling with the boys sucking... lol... and i'll teach you some stuff with marth also...just dont give up man...

Not only will people think you are a noob, they will also think that you are a noob the likes to make johns.

This post will let people know that you are borderline ********.

Sorry for double-post, but I wanted to point out that there's always a risk of edgeguarding Falco off the edge, mostly because of Falco's illusion, which spikes. Although, that is an interesting way to edgeguard Falco...I'll have to try it out some day XD

At 0%, the only thing Falco can do is double jump and immediately aerial (i.e. he is doing an aerial as he travels upwards). He does not have enough time to do ANYTHING else. If he waits to double jump so you miss the bair, you can just hit the start up of his up b with the hook shot and edge hog. He will not illusion through your bair if you time it to hit with the second hit.

The only real thing you need to worry about is a Falco dairing as they double jump, spiking you. If they try that, just up b, and they'll either get hit on the way up, or land on top of it, and get spiked (assuming you spaced it).

It should be noted that the ONLY time to Shield grab is when you are hit with a laggy ground move.

 

[Sliq]

I'm pretty much an idiot.

 

[d_shep04]

wow... thanx for quoting me man... and what the hell are johns man...

 

[kouryuuXfighter]

A really hard match, for me at least.

A friend of mine plays Falco and he is VERY technical; SHL's very well, pillars very well, combos like a ***** etc. and if I play him on FD, I feel like I can't do anything. Platforms help relieve the tension a little but since he is a good Falco player, he figures his way around and still stops me in my tracks.

Camping just doesn't seem to work against Falcos and I usually camp with Link Here are some things I've come to learn to use against a good Falco:

1. Up B or U-Smash out of your shield he if approaches you with lasers or if he pillars you. If he has a high percentage, Up B him to send him flying but if he doesn't, use U-Smash. If you get an U-Smash in and send him up in the air, follow it up with a Dair if you can. Try not to miss since you have to take advantage of every chance you get. If you face a Falco who knows how to pillar very well, an Up B and U-Smash will take good timing and, in some cases, insight on your opponents approach. It may be difficult to land at times but the results are well worth it.

2. Use Nair very often to stop Falcos in their tracks when they try to approach. It comes out fast and has very good priority. A good move overall against Falcos IMO.

3. Don't Camp! I have learned this the hard way. Camping is not a good idea. If your opponent starts to camp with his lasers, your screwed. Appraoch him as much as possible and don't let him breath. Use your projectiles as well to add pressure. A good Falco player usually carries the momentum in this match-up so you have to work extra hard if you want to have a chance at winning.

4. Try to learn how to combo Falco. Link does have a few good ways of comboing fast fallers so it's best you learn what they are and how to do them. Good ones usually involve sending Falco up in the air and ending it with a Dair. Comboing fast fallers is a good aspect of Link and knowing or not knowing how can mean the difference between winning and losing the match.

That is all I can really say about fighting Falcos. Naturally, a Link would have to work hard if he wants to gain the momentum and win the match. All the things above wont mean a thing if the player lacks one important aspect: MINDGAMES. By working hard, I mean both technically and mentally. A Link needs to out think the Falco with exceptional technical skills (assuming it is a veteran Falco player). There really is no way around it. This is just the way it is since Falco outclasses Link in many ways.

Remember. The key here is to train, train, TRAIN! Expect to lose a few dozen times before you get the hang of how to face Falco. You might have to work very hard but to win a match against a Falco is definitely worth it