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What veteran would you change move set wise?

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liets

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i say change toon link to the one from link between worlds. give him the hammer and such, keep some original link moves, just change them enough that they don't play the same as regular link
wolf is fine-ish, change him some (i calculated him to be a 36% fox clone)
make falco less like fox (any way that works, really)
lower MK's general speed, strength, and attack priority
tone down ike's damage and smash-send distance. possibly tone up his throws
 

Donkeykong98123

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DK: As everyone else said, power his throws up. They used to be really strong (Back throw killing at 100% in SSB64) Now it barely kills at 150%.
Make headbutt faster.
Take out the landing lag on his Up B(Too late for this, but they should have done it).
Aerial Giant Punch should have the vulnerability taken away, it's just dumb.
Jiggly: More priority on her moves.
Power up her Rest(Extremely unrewarding to hit in Brawl because it won't kill until about 120.)
Give her more range.
Make sing sleep duration at least 5 seconds.(Sing lasts for 3 seconds) It's completely useless seeing as they break out of the sleep faster than you stop singing.
Make Sing able to hit in the air instead of only on the ground.
C. Falcon: Make Fair easier to sweetspot, as well as Dair. Bigger hitbox on Usmash.
Make Falcon Punch just a bit faster.
Make Up B have a small attack on the last couple frames, like Ganons.
Take off the vulnerability on his Side B.(This MIGHT be too much.)
Sonic: Give him more kill power.
 

Tetra's Tracker

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Sonic
Make both his Side B, the spin dash, and his Neutral B, one move which would be his Down B.
Replace his side B with a sonic boom attack where he dashes forward (similar to Fox's), could also resemble the flame shield attack from Sonic 3 and Knuckles.

Jigglypuff
Return rest to its Melee glory, it's useless in Brawl.
Make sing but opponents to sleep for longer.

Lucas
Do what Project M has done - make his Side B PK Freeze and turn his Up B into Offense Up.

Wario
Move Wario Waft to Up B.
Move Wario Bike to Down B.
Change his Side B to his signature shoulder barge.
Make his Down Air another signature move of his, the ground pound.
Make his Down Smash the move from Wario Land: Shake It where he punches the ground creating a quake (i.e. what Project M have done)
Have him shake his opponent in some of his grabs, referencing Wario Land: Shake It

Kirby
Change the hammer to Side Smash, replace it as Kirby's Side B with his 'burning' copy ability seen in several Kirby games.

Ike
Have his sword shoot out a beam when he performs a Side Smash
Replace his Side B with a throwing axe attack which acts like a boomerang

Bowser
Change his Side B to a hammer throwing attack, referring an attack of his in the original Super Mario Bros.
Change his Up B to the Koopa Klown Kar.

Yoshi
Allow the player to aim Yoshi's egg toss by holding down the B button.
 

Priap0s

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Seriously, does no one want to change/remove & replace, Sheik's forward-B? Have I missed something, is there a good way to use that whimpy whip?

Like many others Ganondorf is by far whom I want to see changed most. People have suggested a magic and heavy sword user, wich makes sense and sounds awesome to me. So that idea gets my suport. (though it could be interesting with something more out of the box. Like giving him his "pig form", as a transform or just standard form).
 

Hypercat-Z

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
1,529
Ganondrof: I would change his B+down move with one that make him draw his sword and change the rest his moveset from a slower clone of Captain Falcon to a faster clone of Sigfried/Nightmare.
 

insomniac19

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237
Lucas should have PK Love as his final smash and Ness should have PK Rockin for his, and not just a basic skin change between them either. Ness also needs a better down tilt, specifically one that has better range. I also think it'd be great if Ness got rid of PK Fire for something he actually used in Earthbound like paralysis which could act as a fast, close range projectile that stuns the target for a brief moment which would go well with his close range fighting style.

For Falco, his down tilt should be restored to its melee incarnate so that it's an actually reliable move. He also needs a better neutral ground combo that isn't as disjointed.

Kirby's forward smash should have less knockback to it, granted Kirby needs some tweaking in general.

Zero Suit Samus desperately needs a better grab, at the very least make it faster.

Captain Falcon's forward aerial should have an easier sweetspot, as there are plenty other characters with sweetspot moves that are super easy to hit with Falcon shouldn't be left in the dust in that aspect. His smash attacks also need to be slightly faster.
 

DoubleYooToo

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Lucas should have PK Love as his final smash and Ness should have PK Rockin for his, and not just a basic skin change between them either. Ness also needs a better down tilt, specifically one that has better range. I also think it'd be great if Ness got rid of PK Fire for something he actually used in Earthbound like paralysis which could act as a fast, close range projectile that stuns the target for a brief moment which would go well with his close range fighting style.
Can't agree with this.

Rockin and Love are the same attack. If we're going by the default "don't care" names, they're both love. That's what it was called in Mother 2 before it was translated. And it's because love, loss and friendship is the biggest overarching theme of the series.

PK Fire is Ness's only useful special move. It's integral to his fighting style. I don't care if it doesn't line up with his moves in the original game (It's not like Lucas would be any different, they're basically identical equivalents between their two games.) You can't just get rid of that because you want to make it more consistent. As Ness is the only rep of his game, and potentially the only rep of his series if they choose not to bring back Lucas, he should definitely keep PK Fire. It's one of only 3 offensive PSI types that appeared in every Mother game.

Anyway, the only things I feel should happen to Ness and Lucas is that if Lucas is removed, merge his moveset with Ness. Lucas's PSI Magnet is a direct upgrade on Ness's, so give it to him. Give it the little shock, the faster deployment and the different animation. Change his PK Thunder to go through things (And at the same time give it the long range like it had in SSB64, if you're going to take a huge risk in recovery it should pay off more.) At the same time, give Ness's upsmash the ability to charge. It's stupid that he has the only smash attack in the entire game that can't be charged.
 

N3ON

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As the topic of this thread was to do with characters, it has been moved to the Character Discussion section.
 

insomniac19

Smash Journeyman
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Can't agree with this.

Rockin and Love are the same attack. If we're going by the default "don't care" names, they're both love. That's what it was called in Mother 2 before it was translated. And it's because love, loss and friendship is the biggest overarching theme of the series.

PK Fire is Ness's only useful special move. It's integral to his fighting style. I don't care if it doesn't line up with his moves in the original game (It's not like Lucas would be any different, they're basically identical equivalents between their two games.) You can't just get rid of that because you want to make it more consistent. As Ness is the only rep of his game, and potentially the only rep of his series if they choose not to bring back Lucas, he should definitely keep PK Fire. It's one of only 3 offensive PSI types that appeared in every Mother game.

Anyway, the only things I feel should happen to Ness and Lucas is that if Lucas is removed, merge his moveset with Ness. Lucas's PSI Magnet is a direct upgrade on Ness's, so give it to him. Give it the little shock, the faster deployment and the different animation. Change his PK Thunder to go through things (And at the same time give it the long range like it had in SSB64, if you're going to take a huge risk in recovery it should pay off more.) At the same time, give Ness's upsmash the ability to charge. It's stupid that he has the only smash attack in the entire game that can't be charged.

I wouldn't say that they are the same attack since PK Love is so important to the story, and I'm sure Sakurai would be able to differentiate the two from one another in some form. All in all this is only an opinion of mine. The paralysis part was just a way I thought Ness could be more unique to help Lucas's probability on returning. The only difference I originally thought of between paralysis and PK Fire was the loss of multiple hits and that instead of trapping it would simply stun for a better follow up. But I do agree with your last paragraph if that were the case.
 

Hypercat-Z

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KIRBY!! I really want to see Kirby changed in a positive way. Going from the top of the list, to the flat bottom, and then a D tier, Kirby has definitely changed more than any other fighter. I'd love to see him retuned to his former glory.
He needs a wheel transformation as running attack.
 

Sonsa

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Luigi - Give him Poltergust for Down-B.
Toon Link - Give him Deku Leaf Up-B and other unique moves.
Jigglypuff - Give her Fairy Wind or some fairy move as Side-B.
Ganondorf - Re-do. Nothing Captain Falcon-like.
Falco - More differences from Fox. Liiike...umm...
Olimar - Maybe throw Winged and Rock Pikmin in there?
 
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Link having more Skyward Sword based stuff, such as rolling bombs and using whip as grapple
Mario using the Lumas instead of Fludd
If Roy returns, him using more fire based attacks
Toon Link using WwHD, ST, and PH items in his moveset

To name a few
 

Cheezey Bites

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What I would do may look different to yours, and these changes are separate to their more in depth balancing nearer to the end of development which would sort out smaller things like hit box sizes, powers, frame data etc.


Mario: F.L.U.D.D. does a little bit of damage, and in the air becomes a downwards squirting hover nozzle, aiding vertical recovery and being a great gimping tool.

Luigi: Poltergust down-B, kind of like Dedede's neutral-B? I'm not sure, but he should have it. And a different Final Smash, either using it or backfiring it to release a bunch of boos and ghosts to attack everyone.

Peach: A final smash based on Super Princess Peach, with various mood swings causing different effects and finally calming down which heals her by a small amount.

Bowser: Yeah, they've kinda done what I would, though I'd consider making a tap of B shooting a fireball, and give Whirling Fortress projectile reflection, and maybe some more Armoured moves; all that depends on the balancing stage though.

DK: A roll dash move that be jumped out of into attacks. Rambi for final smash.

Wario: A shoulder charge side B. I hate that motorbike!

Link: Ho boy! More recovery, better defensive play with faster/better spacing using his projectiles. Normal Boomerang again, possibly with a slight stun effect like in his home games. There's likely more that would come up in balancing too. A Rolling bomb and Sword Beam on one of his moves would be nice too for even more variety in spacing. Lightning Enfused Skyward Strike could also work as a Final Smash, though I kinda like the Triforce Attack (but only once).

Zelda: Make Farore's wind more of a Teleport move, where you set the point and then when you use it again appear there. Perfect recovery, but the waypoint only lasts a set time before dissipating, and goes if you transform. Make Din's Fire bigger, more powerful, faster moving, and have the explosion linger for a while. Make her a bit heavier, though I like her being floaty. Then get onto more refined balancing, which I guess I'll have to fluff.

Ganondorf: Give him a projectile for neutral B, slight homing, chargeable but splits into multiple projectiles rather than one big on. They can be hit back with more powerful attacks and will target the nearest enemy. More an approach, pressure tool than powerful. Up-B being levitation and making him hover for a while afterwards if up is held, peach like (but weaker) air control during this helping his recovery be less predictable. A touch more speed is probably for balancing, but I kinda like him being slow.

Toon Link: A new final smash: a Hurricane Spin which can be controlled all directions hitting people multiple times as he hits them with great damage and knockback.

Samus: Stronger, faster charge shot so she has a killing move again. Bomb Jumping or Space Jump with the Screw Attack so she has better recovery. Sleaker movements, and slightly faster. A Lethal Strike down throw for a more local killing move. Final Smash stays the same.

ZSS: Other M design. Can switch into PSS with a taunt input. Final Smash is Crystal Flash with a full heal effect and some flashy push against foes, still puts on suit though; it's a cool gimmick. I would like to make her less laser whip reliant too, but I can't think of how to.

Pit: Already done.

Ice Climbers: Slightly dumber AI, but not as dumb as Melee, partly for 3DS, and partly for easier Nana seperation. Make Desync grabs harder (but not impossible), though I don't dislike the other attacks desyncing as that is their shtick.

Kirby: Implement and balance copy abilities better!

Metaknight: Copy Project M!

Dedede: Improve the Waddle-Dees and Doos attacks, speed and survivability. Possibly make Gordo slightly more powerful. Consider making Bandana Dee a possible, though very rare, throw, with some really powerful attacks using his spear (unless he's an Assist Trophy). Make chain grabbing a little harder?

Olimar: Add Winged and Rock Pikmin. Rock Pikmin have shield breaking capabilities while winged Pikmin fly straight forward when thrown for a log range. When a Winged Pikmin is at the end of the Up-B it will fly up a little way, helping recovery further. He shoudl have far weaker normal attacks though, relying far more on racking up damage with his pikmin! Purple smashes should be the only real killing moves in his arsenal.

Falco: Arwing Final Smash. Maybe a little more decloning, but I'm not sure he needs it, or what direction I'd take it.

Wolf: Wolfen Final Smash, or possibly have Star Wolf appear and fire with Wolfen.

Pikachu: I hate Volt Tackle. It doesn't look anything like the volt tackle of the anime, the animation of the game or the Volteccer of Pulseman... I'd probably make it more like the latter,

Pokémon Trainer: Get rid of the stamina gimmick. Change the type effectiveness so Squirtle and Charizard are weak to electricity and Ivysaur resists. Make it such that getting hit with an attack that they resist (ie. Ivysaur hit with Grass, Water or Electric) powers up their STAB attacks for a while (call the effect Torrent, Overgrow and Blaze).
Charizard: Rock Smash should be removed for Wing Attack or something move useful in FFA, and less broken in boss rush. Aerial Grabs with their own throws (including a seismic toss style animation). Boost the aerial game like Project M, but with air grabs. Also make Flamethrower while Gliding a thing.
Ivysaur: Bullet Seed for Seed Bomb/Leech Seed, which does damage and seeds the target making them heal Ivysaur slowly. Add (f-tilt, n-air) and edit some bulb attacks to include various powders, which will either stun for a short period (likely), poison (medium) or put the target to sleep (unlikely). Non-Mashable Jab, with more power. Other changed to help defensive play.
Squirtle: Water Gun does a little damage over time. Skull Bash for forward smash. Smallest changes, though some balancing will probably be needed.

Lucario: Mega-Evolution for Final Smash.

Mewtwo: ALOT! A little more weight, though still floaty, slow fall when holding up or possibly more jumps. Non-mashable jab, with more push back. Psycho Cut as an F-tilt? with short range pseudo projectile (that isn't counted as a projectile for reflection purposes). Psystrike as down-B, a powerful close range attack with a command grab. Kinesis as a tether grab, without/with less of the end lag. Confusion should have the best of both worlds reflecting projectiles and lightly dazing enemies (and turning them) much like Disable used to. Mega-Evolution for Final Smashes, choosable when you pick Mewtwo on the menu.
MegaMewtwo Y is smaller very fast and controllable in all directions, with use of Mewtwo's powerful aerial attacks and powered up specials.
MegaMewtwo X is even taller but still fast, with a high jump and fairly quick fall as well as extremely powerful aerial and smash attacks.

Jigglypuff: Pound should be replaced with a fairy move. I'd like to see Fairy Kiss is she gets access to it, so she has some sustain. It should still have some recovery effect if used repeatedly mind. There's a vast amount of changes for other balancing too, Rest should be more powerful too, and have some healing effect for even more sustain (it's a healing move in it's home game), and Sing should have a slightly bigger effect radius. Other balancing buffs would be needed too. Moonblast for Final Smash? Again, without the game released I don't know what Fairy moves she has access to.

Ike: A touch more speed, but not making him super fast.. he's powerful as it, but a touch too sluggish.

Roy: Only bring him in as DLC. Make his neutral B a fiery ranged attack based off his ranged attack in his own game. A glyph appears on the floor infront of Roy, getting bigger as the attack is held; and can be moved along the surface in any direction. I'm not sure how I'd balance him after that, but he should have a ranged attack!

Lucas: PK-Freeze for side-B like Project M. Consider Offense up for neutral-B, but I think I'd just make a faster, less powerful PK Flash than Ness. PK Wall as a melee counter for down-B, will counter with the damage and knock back Lucas would have received, while Lucas takes 50% of the damage, and none of the knock back.

Sonic: A Boost move for side-B. Faster attacking speed, for better hit and run.

Snake: Get rid of him! He doesn't fit, and Konami don't support the Wii U so they don't deserve a rep.
 

@tomic

Smash Apprentice
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Dec 14, 2009
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Like many peoples have already said, Mario should be able to use the FLUDD for recovery. He can use it as a jetpack in Sunshine so why not in Smash? I don't think it would be too ridiculous while you have characters that can freely fly across the map(or almost anyway..) and it's not like Mario is a fast power house character.. It doesn't need to be a huge push that propels him halfway across the screen. It could even be like Peach's overing but not as good..

This should happen.

But beyond that, Ganondorf is clearly the correct answer. Him being a Falcon clone made no sense and the token effort to differentiate him slightly in Brawl was half-assed to say the least.
 
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