Whats the best way to kill?

[Black_Heretic]

I've read the stickies and they really helped me understand the character better, I've been using him a week and I even won a small little local tournament with him (nothing big, but I was happy), but I always seem to have my opponent live up to a high damage, even lighter characters live past 130%. All my kill are usually off a chain of Fairs to an Aurasphere or gimping. So my question is this, what is the best way to kill with him?

p.s., I searched, and (as already said, read stickies) couldn't find anything that helped

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Fsmash, or dsmash, or AS, or bair as they're coming back to the stage, or uair off the top, or DT if your multiplier is high enough.

Your options are many.

 

[XavantTheEnigma]

: Aura Sphere is one of the "main kos" Lucario has, I'd reckon that's probably the best way to kill.

: If only I could work forward air to aura sphere. :\

 

[Timbers]

130 is about the average you'll be killing your opponents. Luc does well in racking up damage though, so that's not a problem. Your problems lie in dying and leaving an opponent at that percentage. It's so hard to kill anything without the aura multiplier. Tipped fsmash kills at like 160 from center of FD. It's ridiculously unfair ;_;

Anyways. Assuming you're over 50%, you should kill them in the 120-140% window. It depends on matchups, but AS and bair are my two most used killmoves, unless I'm stuck at a low percent, then it's usually going for the sweetspot fsmash.

A good habit to get into is throwing the AS at your opponent when they're recovering, and putting them into a position where if they airdodge, they're either going to kill themselves/get punished, or take the hit from the aurasphere. This is great to know. Throw the AS out there, bait the airdodge, and then go for the dair/fair as they come out of the airdodge. This sets up easy gimp potential/ledgespike/whatever. Obviously doesn't work on all characters. Pit and Fox are able to use their reflectors at stage level and not risk getting gimped. There are others, but it's just an example. Knowing your matchups is what's going to get the kill.

 

[Black_Heretic]

Aura Sphere is one of the "main kos" Lucario has, I'd reckon that's probably the best way to kill.

If only I could work forward air to aura sphere. :\

Its cool how you use pictures, very original, and (to possibly offer a little help) chaining fairs to an AS isn't that hard, take them offstage with some SHed fairs then follow offstage, I usually land 2 then shoot the AS, usually good for a kill, but I don't like relying on it for EVERY kill

edit: thanks Col. Stauffenberg and Timbers, I'll work what you 2 said into my game

 

[XavantTheEnigma]

: I just love Disgaea, I'm not far in it. But I just love the characters and facial emotes for some reason!

 

[Nodrak]

Lucario's kill moves (at 100%ish, just kind of going off memory here):
Usmash, Dsmash, Fsmash, Utilt, Fthrow, Bthrow, Bair, Dair, Uair, NeutralB, DownB, SideB(grab) and that's assuming you don't fair/nair offstage to gimp a recovery.

Lucario has the unique trait that his own % matters so I'll go through these with a bit more detail.

Dsmash and Fsmash: Both one of Lucario's best actual KO moves. They kill better then anything else at lower percents. Also note that all aura attacks (I think) sweetspot at the tip. I've heard my friend complain that a sweetspotted Fsmash killed him at 60% while Lucario was at 50%.

Usmash: Same as the other smashes but not as effective against heavier characters

Utilt: Kills at surprisingly lower %'s against light-weight characters

Fthrow: Grab > Fthrow can be done almost instantly, kills at decent percents

Bthrow: Not effected by aura boosts, so if you're at low % and your opponent isn't...

Bair, Dair: May not be the best KO moves in the game but at higher %'s these are just as lethal as any smash attack

Uair: Kills light/midweight characters best

NeutralB: Very leathal
DownB: On average, when Lucario is at 100%, Double team will at roughly 109% and under 100% when Lucario is above 150%

SideB(grab): Without DI it's a very good killer, with DI it takes a little more.

Now I know that a lot of these don't look like the best kill moves since they kill at 300% from the center of FD but lets face it... When do we ever drag our opponent to the center of FD just to use a KO move? Also keep in mind Lucario's off-stage game is amazing. He can WoP and even finish it wit ha dair/nair for an extremely low % kill. Even a single fair can kill or Lucario's upB to edgehog.

My advice, don't just focus on Aura Spheres. Lucario has a ton of options, try a few things, eventually one will work. Against lighter characters I suggest any upwards attacks. Utilt is fast and combo's into itself at low percents and kills at higher. Usmash is nice... just don't miss, Uair is great, just keep juggling them until you can jump high enough to KO them with it.

 

[Kitamerby]

...With a KNIFE.


...But seriously, Fsmash usually works wonders if your opponent isn't used to Lucario's range, Dsmash is good if they get predictable, usmash is a great kill/punish move if they try to attack from above at a high %, sideB Grab is a great one at very high %s when they just don't want to die, Nair is a personal favorite kill move, uair if they're stupid enough to get juggled near the top of a stage, fthrow/bthrow is a great option if you can get a grab, Double Team, Bair, Dair...

Lucario has a bunch of kill options. o,O

 

[Timbers]

But keep in mind a lot of his options are limited to the opponent he's fighting. It's obviously going to get you killed to try and DT anything MK has except fsmash. Dsmash requires you to be nearly on top of the opponent, and most characters have a better close range game than Luc does. Usmash, I wouldn't even consider it. No one's stupid enough to fall right on top of you. Unless you're on like Battlefield or something and they're on top of a platform, don't even bother. Bthrow won't kill even the midweights until 180% from the edge with good DI. Sweetspot utilt (the aura on his foot is the sweetspot) will kill lightweights at like 140% when you're at 100%. Honestly not worth mentioning considering utilt will probably be stale by then. Fthrow is good. It's quick and sometimes you'll get lucky and catch them before they can DI it. It's very quick.

Luc's plausable kill moves are fsmash, aurasphere, bair, and nair. Dair too if you haven't been using it, but realistically speaking it's too good a move not to use. It'll probably be stale.

 

[Evan BlazE]

this might help

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=171016

 

[bludhoundz]

Gimp.

Nair, bair and dair all have pretty strong knockback, if you catch your opponent with one of these off the stage at a decent % for both of you, their death is pretty certain. If they don't die, catch the ledge and try again.

You also obviously have the option of smashing, throwing or tilting (tilting works better at high %).

 

[Nurotasama]

Fsmash is a very good KO move. Not only is it decently powerful, it has a disjointed, lingering hitbox that also hits slightly behind him and has little cooldown time. And, of course, it can charge. Slightly charging it can mess up a lot of people as they drop their shield too early and take a hit. Fsmash is also a great ledgeguard.

Another good KOing move is aura sphere. To set up aura sphere I usually use dthrow > fair (til they are almost to the ground) > nair > AS. Once they are in the air you can then juggle them constantly with Aura Sphere until they are KO'd if you have good enough timing; if they try to grab the ledge away from where you are camping from you can then run up with a fully charged AS and react to what option they use to get back to the stage and hit them again.

For larger characters with poor horizontal aerial movement I also use uthrow to uair. The only problem with this is that it is a string that can be predicted if they know what is coming and AD. It will probably work the first time and maybe a few times after if they don't catch on, but once they know what is coming you are going to have to start using... TEH MINDGAEMZ! Mix it up there! Wait a bit after the uthrow and jump and uair them at a time when their AD's invincibility frames would end if you think they will do that. Or try to bair them: bair has a pretty good disjointed and lingering hitbox and can be used to KO. Or even try to go into an aerial combo if you want and switch over to the AS.

Dair is also a good way to KO, not by just using it senselessly to attack, but by using it to slow your decent against some characters and force them to whiff an attack. For example, you might use dair above Pit out of his Usmash range, fall a bit, then use dair or bair him from the side during his cooldown.

You could probably use FP as I am sure many here use, though I personally prefer to just use a regular dthrow or uthrow, or a Fsmash. The only time I really use FP is versus Kirby.

Others may also use DT if an apparently obvious attack is coming. As with FP, I rarely use this move as it can be blockable if the move has low attack lag or the attack was a projectile, and if the opponent decides to use their WTF MIND GAEMZ you could be victim to some free damage or even a KO. For this I prefer the wonderful Fsmash (I love my Fsmash don't I?), but you could try out DT and see how it works for you.


If you hit someone off the stage and are confident in your ES timing you could always ES and hold diagonally-downward in the direction of the ledge to automatically grab it. I have started to use this a LOT in offline matches versus characters with predictable recoveries, though if you mess up you will fall to your death. For this reason some may prefer to edgehog with a regular jump off of running off and using the hadoken motion to the stage (a quick down, back on the analog stick).

 

[Black_Heretic]

Gimp.

Nair, bair and dair all have pretty strong knockback, if you catch your opponent with one of these off the stage at a decent % for both of you, their death is pretty certain. If they don't die, catch the ledge and try again.

You also obviously have the option of smashing, throwing or tilting (tilting works better at high %).

gimping is what I've been doing, I was just wondering if he also has on stage killers that I have been overlooking or neglecting to use

 

[Timbers]

gimping is what I've been doing, I was just wondering if he also has on stage killers that I have been overlooking or neglecting to use

From the middle of the stage, your main killmoves are going to be aurasphere, fsmash, and uair. Again, people will argue that dsmash belongs there as well, but it's way too high-risk/subpar reward for me to actually consider it so. He has much better options to kill I think. It's certainly useful, just don't use it a lot.

 

[Tallen]

*sigh* every time I enter these things thinking I have something to add Nodrak and Nuro both told everything I was going to say. Suits me for playing FFT all day.

My favorite is by far double-team, and juggling the opponent if he's not done yet, and even if my opponent air dodges I try to add-in a fair or dair depending on his situation. However gimping is still one of the funniest/most humiliating method out there.

 

[manhunter098]

Hmm. While I would say that as far as KO moves go Aura Sphere is probably the best, even with a weak aura its pretty effective at killing. That said I dont really like to rely on Aura Sphere for KO's and I dont really like to rely on Smash Attacks either. I mostly kill by gimping my opponent. Though against some opponents that doesnt really work too well, its what I tend to focus on the most since if for some reason I do happen to die when my opponent is heavily damaged I can still rely on my gimping game to let me get the kill instead of risking or preparing to setup for a powerful attack.

 

[WolfCypher]

In relation to the OP's question, so as not to take over his thread, I hear a lot of you recommend gimp kills. Exactly what setup (moves) do you guys use? Just DAir?

 

[manhunter098]

Setup? I wouldnt say you really setup for gimping people. I mean its obvious you have to get them off the stage, but there really isnt any specific method for it. I personally do tend to like a f-tilt angled downwards so it sends them at a more horizontal trajectory so they have less height to worth with, but really you just have to keep trying to knock them off, pretty much any move will do really.