Where Does Bowser Currently Stack-Up in the Metagame?

[BarSoapSoup]

I must concur.

Was playing some today and I was just thinking about how goddamn annoying it is that so many of Bowser's moves launch for the corners where our opponent is guaranteed to survive the longest instead of straight-up horizontally or vertically. D tilt is one of our best kill moves because, lo and behold, it actually launches horizontally instead of right for the corners like every other damn move...

But even then, D-tilt doesn't hit nearly as horizontally as Ganon's F-tilt.

I have taken to using U-Smash a bit more since many players try to attack me from the air and the brief invincibility frames are nice. It also, for the most part anyways, launches somebody straight up, making it a good kill move on lighter characters.

Overall, a lot of Bowser's moves could use more horizontal launch power and less vertical simply because most of Bowser's hits are easily telegraphed. F-Smash definitely Bowser needs it - its very hard to land, doesnt have super armor and has so much endlag. It shouldn't launch as close to the corner as it does because landing it means you got an awesome read. F-tilt's launch should be based on the direction Bowser punches, Dash Attack...eh, maybe. There is no excuse for Down Throw going as far as it does vertically - its not a combo throw, its a wonder why we would ever use anything other than back throw or forward throw with Bowser. Let Flying Slam and Down Smash be the ones that launch towards corners - it would just make sense for Down Smash and Flying Slam is a command grab. Edited for typos.

 

[Cronoc]

Dthrow is for disrespect or if I somehow do it by accident. It has no other use as far as I can tell.

 

[Big Sean]

Dthrow is for disrespect or if I somehow do it by accident. It has no other use as far as I can tell.

Technically it's useful if you don't want to stale out your fthrow and bthrow. Still it's hard to get a throw kill and the stage control fthrow/bthrow gives you is intoxicating.

 

[Cronoc]

Technically it's useful if you don't want to stale out your fthrow and bthrow. Still it's hard to get a throw kill and the stage control fthrow/bthrow gives you is intoxicating.

I would rather use uthrow in that situation though. I sometimes use it when I'm having trouble edge-guarding someone after f/bthrow. So I use uthrow to at least see if I put myself in position to catch their landing (assuming they're past uthrow->fair percents). I usually regret doing so, but it's an option. Dthrow is in a weird place - it doesn't send people far enough vertically to give space to catch their landing, it sends people too far horizontally to hit them afterwards, but not far enough to force an edge-guard situation unless you're on the lip of the stage or something. I only ever use it cause it occurs to me that the other throws won't help and I think "huh, wonder what'll happen if I do this." I mean, I've converted a dthrow into a fair to catch a jump towards me, but not at tournament level...

After spending some time fighting a Villager player today, I'd like for Bowser's walk to not start off so slow. Villager forces Bowser to move and the slingshot punishes his dash animation, but walking is too slow. Not because it's really that slow, but because it takes so long for Bowser to get going. I think taking the slow acceleration out of the walk would really help in that and other projectile matchups.

 

[S_B]

I would rather use uthrow in that situation though. I sometimes use it when I'm having trouble edge-guarding someone after f/bthrow. So I use uthrow to at least see if I put myself in position to catch their landing (assuming they're past uthrow->fair percents). I usually regret doing so, but it's an option. Dthrow is in a weird place - it doesn't send people far enough vertically to give space to catch their landing, it sends people too far horizontally to hit them afterwards, but not far enough to force an edge-guard situation unless you're on the lip of the stage or something. I only ever use it cause it occurs to me that the other throws won't help and I think "huh, wonder what'll happen if I do this." I mean, I've converted a dthrow into a fair to catch a jump towards me, but not at tournament level...

Yeah, and while it's not necessary for EVERY move to be amazing for a character to be good, Bowser doesn't have enough good (or amazing) moves to compensate for the general crappiness of many of his moves.

It'd be fine if Dsmash, Dthrow, etc. were terribad if he made up for it with amazing frame data on at least half of his other moves, but as it stands they just don't do him any favors.

I suppose a lot of moves launch at that 45 degree angle so it's not something that's unique to Bowser, but it feels highly annoying for him because actually LANDING the kill confirm on a slippery opponent can range from tricky to massively annoying, and there's nothing worse than sending that Sheik straight for the corner every time, thinking "Dammit, you're going to do another 70% to me before I even get to hit you again! Why won't you just DIE already?!"...