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Which controller for SSB4?

Smur

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So I know this has been made before, but all the info there is kind of confusing.
They were saying something about wireless controllers having delay, but won't all the controllers used on the Wii U be wireless?
Is there a downside of using a GameCube controller + Adapter with Wii mote?
I'm stuck on whether to get a GameCube, Wii Classic Pro or Nyko Wii U controller. Anyone know the specific pros and cons?

WAT DO <__>
 

UberMadman

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Sakurai himself used the pro controller at the demo. I'm thinking Pro is the way to go, especially since it's the closest to the Gamecube controller. And how would you use a Gamecube controller on the Wii U anyway?
 

Hyruleslink

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Wii Remote & Nunchuk. It's nice having two control devices that allows being able to stretch your arms out and not be confined to a single gamepad.
 

greenluigiman2

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I think the best idea is just to try and get used to the Pro Controller (And the gamepad, though they're pretty much the same without the screen), it'll make it easier if there's ever a situation when that's what you're forced to use.
 

Zonderion

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Sakurai himself used the pro controller at the demo. I'm thinking Pro is the way to go, especially since it's the closest to the Gamecube controller. And how would you use a Gamecube controller on the Wii U anyway?
They make an adapter for the GameCube that fits into the Wii Remote (just like the Classic Controller).

Personally, I think I'm going to go with Pro:
  • 80 hour battery life vs Wii Remotes up to 30 hours, if you have fresh batteries (plus you gotta carry batteries)
  • Very similar to the GameCube Controller vs having to buy an adapter for the GameCube controller (note: see batteries above)
  • Sakurai uses one <---enough said
Just my 2 cents.
 

Erimir

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Ugh I actually just tried playing Brawl using the Wiimote + Nunchuk last week, since I wanted to try playing it on my Wii U and I didn't have a Classic Controller Pro yet (I just got one though). The D-pad, +, - and A+B are not practical for the main three functions (jump, attack, special). Which leaves A, B, Z and C to be used for them. B, C and Z are where I'm used to only shielding and throwing (i.e. used by index fingers). And additionally, that makes it so that at least one of them will be used by my left hand. If you're used to using a GameCube controller or a Classic Controller, it's really quite difficult to get used to.

Note that I have relatively small hands (less than 7" from middle fingertip to heel of the palm) so if you have large hands, some buttons should be easier to reach, and the smaller controllers may be more awkward.

I have no knowledge about how responsive the wireless options are relative to each other.

Given the redundancy in the control scheme, some issues could be ameliorated by, for example, only shielding with L and grabbing with R. You would need to get used to it, but there's nothing inherently wrong with that scheme. Particularly on controls with only digital shoulder buttons. You can also map a function to one of the redundant jump buttons on many of the controls.

Another big thing to note is that we don't know whether the Wii Classic Controllers will even be usable with the game. For example, New Super Mario Bros U supports only the GamePad, Wii Remote and Wii U Pro Controller. There doesn't seem like there should be any technical reason why they couldn't be supported though. But from what I can tell, most games made for the Wii U specifically do not support them. But with Brawl Sakurai seemed to want to be as liberal as possible with controller options (Mario Kart Wii was also that way), so he might do it.

Anyway here's how I would rank them, assuming they're all usable (yes, I have used all of these):
GameCube wired controller > Wii U Pro Controller > Wii Classic Controller Pro > GameCube controller with adapter > Wii U GamePad > Wii Classic Controller > Wii Remote + Nunchuk > Wii Remote alone > Balance Board

Ranking given controllers that are basically guaranteed to be usable:
Wii U Pro Controller > Wii U GamePad > Wii Remote + Nunchuk > Wii Remote alone

Your choices are much clearer if the Wii Classic Controllers are not usable.

GameCube wired: (This would apply to Brawl)
Pros:
  • Most comfortable to hold, pretty light
  • Wires mean that interference is no issue if you have many consoles in one area
  • Off-set joysticks (high on the left, low on the right)
  • Most responsive
  • Buttons have a satisfying feel (on a new controller)
  • Joysticks have octagonal wells
  • No batteries required
  • I'm most used to it
Cons:
  • Not available for use with Smash Bros 4
  • The Z-button is more awkwardly placed than on the Wii U Pro Controller/GamePad
  • The strange layout of the ABXY buttons is probably suboptimal, although I'm used to it.
  • Distance between XY and B and XY and C-stick is the largest
  • C-stick's nub shape is not optimal. The way it is used in Smash mostly makes this not a problem though
  • Wires can get in the way, limit how far away you can be, etc. A minor issue, but should be noted
  • D-Pad is too small and too far away, although this is basically irrelevant since taunting is not important
  • Most of them are old and worn out. This is not inherent to the controller though (you can find new ones, I actually just got a new one for only $30 online. You have to be wary of knockoffs and you'll have to look around to find a low priced one)
Wii U Pro Controller:
Pros:
  • Comfortable and light to hold
  • All buttons are in easy reach (+ and - are harder, but still quite easy to reach)
  • L-stick is placed high
  • Buttons have a satisfying feel to them
  • Built-in rechargeable battery
Cons:
  • R-stick is placed high
  • Joysticks have circular wells, giving less guidance. I'm not sure how much this will matter in practice.
  • Only usable with Wii U games. Therefore can't be used to play Brawl. This is my biggest complaint about it. They really should be able to release an update for the Wii U's firmware that addresses this.
  • (Irrelevant to Smash, but there are no analog buttons, including no analog triggers.)
If they gave it a more GameCube-inspired shape (for the grip), off-set the joysticks and enabled it for use with Wii games, it would be awesome. As it is, it's still very good. Analog buttons would be nice I suppose, but I think that ship has sailed as the GamePad lacks them as well. This shape may be more comfortable than the GameCube control for people with larger hands though.
Wii Classic Controller Pro:
Pros:
  • Fairly comfortable and light to hold in itself (i.e. not including the Wii Remote)
  • All important buttons are in easy reach (+ and - are a little more difficult)
  • R-stick is placed low
  • Joysticks have octagonal wells
  • Usable with both Wii U and Wii games
Cons:
  • L-stick is placed low
  • Joysticks are too tall in my opinion, which makes transitioning between ABXY and the R-stick more awkward
  • Buttons feel a bit cheap
  • You have to do something with the Wii Remote it's connected to, though in most situations this will only be a minor inconvenience
  • Requires you to provide batteries
BONUS
GameCube using adapter to connect to Wii Remote:
Pros:
  • All the pros and cons of the GameCube controllers' button configuration and comfort. Overall a strong pro point
  • Seems to be just as responsive as a Classic Controller
  • Adapter has a turbo feature
  • Long cord gives you more options with putting the Wii Remote somewhere out of the way.
Cons:
  • It seems to have some inconsistency. When I initially plug it in on the Wii U home menu, it sometimes registers inputs that I am not making. However, once you get it working, it seems to work consistently.
  • It is treated as equivalent to a Classic Controller. Z is mapped to ZR, and you will not have access to ZL, if you wanted it for something.
  • Start requires a double press to get + (which is pause in Brawl at least) and a long press to get Home
  • Turbo feature means this won't be tournament legal. If you're playing casually, that's not a problem though. Perhaps in the future they'll release a non-turbo version.
  • Requires adapter (costs ~ $18)
  • Requires you to provide batteries, of course
I haven't used it for a long period, so it remains to be seen how reliable it is. If after more testing, the phantom inputs seem like a serious problem, I will probably rank this below the Wii Classic Controller.
Wii U GamePad:
Pros:
  • All important buttons are in easy reach. (+ and - are not super easy)
  • L-stick is placed high
  • Buttons have a satisfying feel
  • You will have access to any touchscreen functionality (Sakurai has said the touchscreen will not give a player any advantage; this doesn't mean it won't be used for extras like taking pictures, menu navigation, etc.)
  • Built-in rechargeable battery
Cons:
  • R-stick is placed high
  • Distance between ABXY and R-stick is a bit large, but not as large as on the GameCube controller
  • the R/L and ZR/ZL trigger buttons are a bit too far apart
  • Joysticks have circular wells
  • You can only use one, so in a local multiplayer game, you'll need other controls.
  • Heaviest option. In playing non-motion control games on the Wii U, I have found that it's not actually tiring to hold (it can get tiring if you're using the gyroscope for a long time)
Since I know it looks like it could be uncomfortable, I will also note that it's surprisingly comfortable to hold, so I wouldn't mark it down for that. Not as comfortable as the above options though, so I wouldn't mark it up either.
Wii Classic Controller:
Pros:
  • Very light
  • R-stick is placed low
  • Joysticks have octagonal wells
  • Most important buttons are in easy reach
Cons:
  • L-stick is placed low
  • ZL and ZR are very awkwardly placed. I almost certainly would remap grab (taking one of the redundant shield buttons, although you could take a jump button if you wanted)
  • Joysticks are too tall IMO, which makes transitioning between ABXY and the R-stick more awkward
  • Buttons feel a bit cheap
  • You have to do something with the Wii Remote it's connected to, though in most situations this will only be a minor inconvenience
  • Requires you to provide batteries
Note: I haven't played Smash with this controller. However, ZL and ZR were awkward enough to use in Xenoblade Chronicles, and I didn't even need them very often in that game, so I'm quite sure they would be unworkable for Smash.
Wii Remote + Nunchuk:
Pros:
  • Joystick is well-placed and has a octagonal well
  • Ability to separate your left and right hand may be preferred by some (I will note that it does enable you to scratch yourself without interrupting play if it's just a slight itch on your nose or the like)
  • Pretty comfortable to hold (the asymmetrical weights slightly bother me though)
  • Wii Remote buttons have a satisfying feel
  • Control scheme is completely ambidextrous
Cons:
  • While Shake Smash offers an ok substitute for the lack of a second joystick, it is not as precise and may sometimes register when you don't want it to
  • The C button is a little too far from the Z button
  • A+B and 1+2 combination inputs will not always register properly
  • D-Pad inputs are not easy to reach and do not always register properly.
  • The 1, 2, + and - buttons are all difficult to reach
  • There are not enough convenient buttons to cover all the important functions (attack, special, jump, shield, grab) without using tap-jump. I consider the convenient buttons to be A, B, C and Z
  • You have to get used to using your index fingers for functions you'd use your thumb for with other controls (you can get used to this however)
  • Assuming you don't use tap-jump, you will have to use your left hand for functions you wouldn't use it for on other controls (you can get used to this however)
  • Nunchuk trigger buttons feel cheap
  • Requires you to provide batteries
I do NOT like this control. The only reason it's above the Wii Remote alone is that you have the joystick and you don't HAVE to use tap-jump.
Wii Remote alone:
Pros:
  • You will never accidentally enter a run, since you must double tap to run.
  • Use of digital directional input can make some moves easier. F-tilts in particular are easier because you won't accidentally enter a run. Smashes and tilts have more distinct inputs (IMO).
  • May be a less intimidating control scheme for some beginning players. I doubt this applies to anyone reading this. This is only a positive if they're unfamiliar with more complicated controllers, and if they make the mistake of thinking less buttons = simpler and easier to use. The extra effort to learn the positions of the additional buttons on other controls will only be a problem for a short period and after that the controls will be much easier than the Wii Remote offers.
Cons:
  • No joystick means you're limited to 8 directions, and diagonals are not as easily registered. This is relevant for some moves
  • A+B and 1+2 will sometimes not register properly
  • You are basically required to use tap-jump. This makes up-tilts impossible to do from resting position. The D-pad will sometimes register a jump when you did not intend one.
  • The + and - buttons are difficult to reach
  • B is awkward and for many people will actually be activated with the back of the middle finger (at least, it would be for me)
  • Not the most comfortable controller
So there you go. That's a comprehensive run down of the potential control options for SSB Wii U.
I would say definitely get a Wii U Pro Controller or a Wii Classic Controller Pro. If you wanna give it a shot, the GameCube adapter might be a good choice.
 

shinhed-echi

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I'm inclined on getting either Pro Controller. Not sure which one will be better... I guess I might as well buy the regular Wii version's pro controller, since that way I can still play my VC titles with it.
 

Kaye Cruiser

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I'm using my Classic Controller Pro.

I pretty much got it to prepare for Smash 4 ahead of time anyways. :3
 

Mind Ranger

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wii u pro controller is what I am using
Definitely this, it doesn't look as chunky as the Wii Pro one, and it seems to follow the design of the much more conformable Xbox 360.
Although if they have GC controls I would love and use that. Its super unlikely considering what Sakurai said about it.
 

[Corn]

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Ive been using the Classic Controller Pro for a while, and that is what I will use.

Its quite nice and cheap if you need new ones for any reason.
 

Smur

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Controller Info

Woah, thanks for that encyclopedia of info Erimir :p.
So based upon these posts and further research...I think the Wii Classic Pro or Nyko Wii U Commander are the best two choices for me. I Might make a video or something of how my transition of controllers go.

NOW I JUST NEED TO FIND THE CONTROLLERS IN PINK.
 

patoons

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Cons:

  • R-stick is placed high
  • Joysticks have circular wells, giving less guidance. I'm not sure how much this will matter in practice.
  • Only usable with Wii U games. Therefore can't be used to play Brawl. This is my biggest complaint about it. They really should be able to release an update for the Wii U's firmware that addresses this.
  • (Irrelevant to Smash, but there are no analog buttons, including no analog triggers.)


melee made use of the analog shoulder buttons for light/strong shielding.
 

Erimir

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I know that, but that wasn't the case in Brawl, and it won't be the case in Smash 4 since the primary Wii U controllers nor the 3DS have analog shoulder buttons.

So I meant irrelevant to Smash 4 and Brawl.
 

Chauzu

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Going to learn to use the Wii U Gamepad since I probs mostly will be playing on it in any case. I have the Gamecube control as back-up though if I just can't get used to it properly.
 

Erimir

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I hate that control scheme so much.

Really, any of the dual joystick options will be perfectly adequate, IMO. I do think it's worth it to get the Wii U Pro Controller or Wii Classic Controller Pro for the ergonomic advantage over the GamePad though.

Hopefully they will allow you to play Smash 4 and Mario Kart 8 using the Wii Classic Controllers, because it would be annoying to have to get more Wii U Pro Controllers (I only have one right now).
 

mimgrim

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I have been using my Wii Classic Controler for Brawl (not Pro) myself lately because of Smash 4 and once I found a comfortable button layout and got use to it, it became great. I actually prefer it now over the GC controller actually. Just note that the default controls for it might not be the most comfortable for you to start with and I really don't recomend using the shoulder buttons to grab but instead assign grab to A, B, X, or Y. Gc was good but I think it's over rated now, and I use to over rate it myself. lol
 

MargnetMan23

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I personally play brawl just fine with the wiimote+nunchuck so if I end up not liking the pro controller then I can play wiimote+nunchuck without trouble. Also @ Erimir the control pros and cons guy I personally disagree with your d pad point but then again you said you have small hands but personally I have little issue with that control scheme as I can place my thumb easily on the a button and the d pad at the same time (I only use the d pad for grabs though :p) But my worst problem with that control scheme is that I don't use shake smashes so I generally use smashes even when I'm trying to do tilts and that does get annoying sometimes... So yeah I'm going to try to use the pro controller and see how I like it.
 

Erimir

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Also @ Erimir the control pros and cons guy I personally disagree with your d pad point but then again you said you have small hands but personally I have little issue with that control scheme as I can place my thumb easily on the a button and the d pad at the same time (I only use the d pad for grabs though :p)
When I'm holding the Wii Remote that way, I can comfortably reach down on the D-pad.

Left and right are doable, but because it's not the easiest reach it makes an incorrect input more likely. I can't reach up on the D-pad easily. In a fast-paced game like Smash, that inconvenience and the greater probability of incorrect inputs is a major problem.

But yeah, if you have larger hands (or really, just longer thumbs) that's much less of an issue, although I still think imprecise inputs would still be a problem because of the angle your thumb is at (it's not much of a problem if you're holding it horizontally).

Other issues with that control scheme are still there even so (not the greatest selection of buttons, A+B and 1+2 often not registering, difficult to reach +, -, 1 and 2).

I mainly prefer the regular controllers since I'm so used to them - I use my thumb for attacks, and my index fingers for shielding and grabbing only.
 

MargnetMan23

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When I'm holding the Wii Remote that way, I can comfortably reach down on the D-pad.

Left and right are doable, but because it's not the easiest reach it makes an incorrect input more likely. I can't reach up on the D-pad easily. In a fast-paced game like Smash, that inconvenience and the greater probability of incorrect inputs is a major problem.

But yeah, if you have larger hands (or really, just longer thumbs) that's much less of an issue, although I still think imprecise inputs would still be a problem because of the angle your thumb is at (it's not much of a problem if you're holding it horizontally).

Other issues with that control scheme are still there even so (not the greatest selection of buttons, A+B and 1+2 often not registering, difficult to reach +, -, 1 and 2).

I mainly prefer the regular controllers since I'm so used to them - I use my thumb for attacks, and my index fingers for shielding and grabbing only.
Well, fair enough I don't notice the registering thing but maybe if I paid more attention to that stuff I'd notice XD
 

Dark Phazon

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I think the best idea is just to try and get used to the Pro Controller (And the gamepad, though they're pretty much the same without the screen), it'll make it easier if there's ever a situation when that's what you're forced to use.
True True - Very good point.

But GC Pad was a gift from the heavens!
 

DakotaBonez

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The Gamepad and Pro controller have a dead zone on the sticks the likes of which we have never known.Ya know how when ya tilt the joystick ever so slightly to perform intricate actions like tip toeing or side tilt attacks? With these new controllers, the sticks don't register any input until you move the stick halfway to its maximum tilt.I'm sure we'll be able to adapt to this dead zone, just wanted to inform people.I'm seriously tempted to start using the DPAD for movement since these fighting games only register 8 directions anyway and the DPAD is on level with the buttons making it more comfortable. I'll take advantage of the new diamond shaped button layout for a more convenient mapping of the controls, maybe make the A button an extra grab button.Most importantly, I hope that we can use the gamepad alongside the other controllers, and not have to switch to another controller during multiplayer.

EDIT: THE DEADZONE ONLY EXISTS ON PORTS OF GAMES BECAUSE THE WII U'S ANALOG STICKS HAVE A WIDER RANGE
 

DakotaBonez

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But GC Pad was a gift from the heavens!
Sorry for double posting, but I forgot to mention that the gamepad's dpad is noticeably bigger. In my opinion the Wiimote had the best dpad. It was Small and easy to press and elevated just enough. The gamepad has a kinda weird indented DPAD that I guess conforms to the shape of your thumb, but it seems just a bit to big. Still vastly superior over any other DPAD out there.
 

Smur

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The Gamepad and Pro controller have a dead zone on the sticks the likes of which we have never known.
Ya know how when ya tilt the joystick ever so slightly to perform intricate actions like tip toeing or side tilt attacks? With these new controllers, the sticks don't register any input until you move the stick halfway to its maximum tilt.
I'm sure we'll be able to adapt to this dead zone, just wanted to inform people.
I'm seriously tempted to start using the DPAD for movement since these fighting games only register 8 directions anyway and the DPAD is on level with the buttons making it more comfortable. I'll take advantage of the new diamond shaped button layout for a more convenient mapping of the controls, maybe make the A button an extra grab button.
Most importantly, I hope that we can use the gamepad alongside the other controllers, and not have to switch to another controller during multiplayer.

That was noted by a guy using the Adapter to play with his GameCube controller. He said, since the GameCube joystick is bigger than the Classic Pro, the dead zone on the GameCube controller was very noticeable (since the Wii is reading it as a classic controller, and not a real GameCube controller). HOWEVER, this issue was only on the Wii U for some reason. Playing with an adapter on the Wii felt like using a wired GameCube controller, it's weird. He also said the L and R buttons have to be pressed all the way down in order to shield in smash, no more slightly pressing it to shield :p.
Soo just based on these facts..unless Nintendo comes out with an official adapter that fixes this, or an actual wireless GameCube controller. I'm most likely gonna go with Nyko Commander or Classic Pro O:
The Video:
 

Chiroz

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The Gamepad and Pro controller have a dead zone on the sticks the likes of which we have never known.
Ya know how when ya tilt the joystick ever so slightly to perform intricate actions like tip toeing or side tilt attacks? With these new controllers, the sticks don't register any input until you move the stick halfway to its maximum tilt.
I'm sure we'll be able to adapt to this dead zone, just wanted to inform people.
I'm seriously tempted to start using the DPAD for movement since these fighting games only register 8 directions anyway and the DPAD is on level with the buttons making it more comfortable. I'll take advantage of the new diamond shaped button layout for a more convenient mapping of the controls, maybe make the A button an extra grab button.
Most importantly, I hope that we can use the gamepad alongside the other controllers, and not have to switch to another controller during multiplayer.

Have no worries my friend. Just like you, I also mistakenly thought the Gamepad and the Wii U Pro had a huge deadzone and was worred it did not register small inputs as well as other controllers. The truth is it is actually completely the opposite!

The Wii U controller is much more receptive to small movements than any other controller out there and amusingly enough that is the exact reason why the deadzone exists. This deadzone exists on all old games that were designed for othe platforms with less receptive controllers.

The reason for the deadzone is that these games were directly ported from their other consoles to be playable on the Wii U and basically what is registered as a "light input" on another control is actually a "medium input" on the Wii U Pro because of its highr sensibility.

If you want proof, go into the internet browser and tap the Wii U Pro's control stick as lightly as you can, you will notice how it reads even the smallest of taps.

So, it isn't that this control has a bad sensitivity it is that it has much better sensitivity. Since Smash is a Wii U original game, designed and programmed for the Wii U then this sensitivity will be used to the best of its ability :D.

Edit: Basically, the deadzone exists because those games are ports from other consoles. The Wii U Pro is actually much more receptive than any other controller. Because Smash will be an original game programmed on the Wii U Pro said deadzone won't actually exist. If you want proof, buy a game only made for the Wii U and try out the Wii U Pro controller. You can also use the internet browser to test it if you do not want to buy a game for that.
 

DakotaBonez

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Holy crap thanks for explaining that dude!
I played a demo for the new Resident Evil and the huge dead zone really ruined the precision aiming.
Whenever I use the stick to scroll the page in the internet browser, the deadzone is very small, but whenever using the analog stick to select letters to type, the deadzone is a bit bigger. (I mean you can just type with the touch screen so whatever) I guess this shows that the deadzone can be adjusted, hopefully to the point where there isn't a deadzone at all.
 

Erimir

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Yeah, I meant to post about this, but I was actually testing this out last night since I thought about it when I was on the Wii U.

I first tried it out on New Super Mario Bros U, and the dead zone was fairly large. Maybe not as large as you were saying, but it needed somewhere around 30-40% tilt to get Mario to walk.

However, when I went into Miiverse and used the joystick to scroll, it was actually quite sensitive. Considerably more so than in NSMBU.

So it seems to be a programming choice, not a hardware issue.

Anywho...

Soo just based on these facts..unless Nintendo comes out with an official adapter that fixes this, or an actual wireless GameCube controller. I'm most likely gonna go with Nyko Commander or Classic Pro O:
The Video: [youtube]
The thing in the video is what I have to connect my GameCube controller to the Wii U.

What's a Classic Pro O?

And is Nyko's controller really up to the level of quality of Nintendo's own? Because usually 3rd party controllers just feel cheaper to me (the buttons and the joysticks) and I feel that they wear out more quickly. And usually the shape is not as comfortable. Nintendo's hardware is pretty much always reliable and durable.
 

Zonderion

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So I just bought 2 Wii U Pro Controllers (Best Buy had a deal 50% off), so I got 2 for the price of 1. I have to say, I think I'm really going to enjoy this new controller. Sure the right stick is placed above the buttons. But the grip it has makes it extremely easy to flick it down for d-airs or d-smashes. I can barely brush the stick down and it grips pretty well. It's placement also makes it easier to flick it up for up-airs or up-smashes. Side flicks are about the same as the Gamecube. It's extremely comfortable to hold. I'm looking forward to using it.
 

BaPr

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1091-9057-0681
I know people would completely disagree with me (maybe only 100% of them), but since I plan on getting both versions (the 3DS first because I don't have much money for the Wii U) I was hoping that the 3DS would be a controller. Now, don't tell me that it won't happen because I know that it is VERY unlikely (unless Sakurai said it won't happen, please link the interview), but here are my 2 reasons.
1: It lets my family choose whatever control they want, because we usually fought for the Classic controller, since I don't use the GCN anymore.
2: I have 1 controller, so I don't have to get used to playing two things (like how I had to switch from a GCN to the classic controller *shudders*). And yes, I do use parentheses too much.
 
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