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Who counters Dr Mario?

A

Ace83

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
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215
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Chapel Hill, NC
well i'd really like to hear SmashMac's opinion on the doc/falco matchup. if anyone would know this matchup, he would.

to me, just like all fastfallers, falco has this insane offensive combo potential; however, if you're not on your game (miss an l-cancel and get grabbed, etc) you can get combo'd like hell because of your fast-falling nature. and since most falco's aren't nearly as automatic as say DaShizWiz, good doc players are granted opportunities.. and doc is VERY capapable of slaughtering spacies IF he's able to get a grab in. chaingrabbing is also important on levels other than final destination. if you see them DI towards a platform, hopefully you can follow-up before they land; if not, tech chase. chaingrabbing does not have to be 0-death to be beneficial, lol.

bottom line, if falco is ON, i'd say doc is in trouble, only thing is, not everyone is a robot and can keep the pressure on doc without slipping up once or twice. doc and falco have a love-hate relationship.
 
SmashMac

SmashMac

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
1,388
Location
Naples, FL.
Well in all honesty I've never found that Falco counters Doc. at all. He's a very hard match-up, but if you know how to get past his dair spam with power-shielding-grab/light-shielding, know how to fight versatile not solely depending on grabbing for CG, and know how to DI out of his combos (DI the shine behind him in most situations). I've made a guide on matchups and in the guide includes Falco so that pretty much covers it all. But to make things a bit simpler I just asked my brother DaShizWiz if he thinks Falco counters Doc., and he told me no but that he believes Falco is better than Doc. in the matchup. He also told me that Falco has to be very careful. If a Falco is good, he's going to be playing careful. That means he's going to change his approach. If a Falco changes his approach he should be a bit easier than normal. Mainly what you have to worry about in this matchup is the Falco spacing/pressuring your shield and being predictable. That's all I got for now but when I have more time I may delve into the specifics a bit more.

Oh and laser-spamming is pretty hard but the way to counter that is get close to him. I know it sucks but if you can keep up with Falco's hand-to-hand combat and just space his aerials it's an easier match as well.
 
Dogysamich

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
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Messages
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Warner Robins, Georgia
i dunno, everytime i read the doc forums, my head starts to hurt.

It's almost as bad as the thread alpha showed me in the brawl forums that said "Tripping adds depth to brawl".

I mean, somebody said something about when marth f.airs that's a free grab everytime. I want to know when did doc get a 10 foot grab, cause i need to put that on my doc.

I want to live in the "perfect world" where marth players cant space. I want to see the day m2k cannot even halfassly space a f.air. That'd be amazing.

__

And then everybody is coming in here talkin about "___ ***** doc, or doc ***** _____". I mean, im not going to lie, i gripe like a ****er about capfal, and i've been realising it's because I have a dumb strat. But lets be real.

Marth, Capfal, Sheik. Only 3 characters that "counter" doc (no specific order, mindy ou). . Not fox, not falco, not peach, not samus, not metaknight. ... ok maybe metamccloud. I quote counter because even those 3 arent REAL counter matchups (there are only like, 2 in melee). People can sit here and gripe and moan and make arguements to say whatever else, that's not specifically the case. Beyond those 3, you have to look at the calibur of the doc player compared to the one of the ____ player.

*Looks at $mac* I dont give a **** what anybody says, there top level fox/falco/peach/samus/etc are better than the top level docs right now. I guarentee if DJN and Greenmario went through tgmtsbco and fast1 playing Doc like they did mario (well, if DJN used doc instead of mario when he did), alot of this thread wouldnt exist.

Dont get me wrong, im not one of those people who sit here and say "well everybody can beat everybody". No, there's something called a bad matchup. But just because there isnt a doc going across the nation ripping the living **** outta everything that moves like ICs, Jiggs, Ganons, Luigis (or whatever other midtier/low tiers you want to use) doesnt mean doc gets ***** by everybody.


___

My point is that the reason why there's nothing really definite is because everybody is sitting here thinking in 1 box, and everybody is sitting around like "Well, i do this against the collective group of people i play, therefore it works every single time". And it just gets annoying reading that kinda stuff over and over again.

It gets old reading the stuff over and over. I personally am not getting anything out of sitting here reading the doc forums everyday. It's the same bs over and over. And no, im not trying to say im above what's happening here, far from it. The thing is NOTHING is happening.





 
elvenarrow3000

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
It really bugs me how you say Capfal. I'm going to make up a non-standard nickname too.

Like C-Fa. Seefah.

Anyway, back on topic. What exactly is considered a "counter"?
 
Dogysamich

Dogysamich

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i dont like how your face looks. OOOOOHHHH *run*

but seriously.

a counter for the most part is really a character that a person can pick up with like, little-to-no knowledge or practice, and give the other character a hard time (or win).

I mean, there's no real definition, but capfal, marth, and sheik were real counters instead of just ridiculous matchups, nobody in their right mind would be trying it.

It's like PeachvICs, SheikvBowser, or MarthvKirby.

No matter what anybody who comes in here (including me) tries to say, we wreck the bad matchups where the opposing player is far worse than us, and we beat the ones that are below (or even) to us. But if it's even to above, we have to work much harder than they do in the matchups (hence why it's a bad matchup). They still have to work, cause if they dont know how to play the matchup, they still can lose horribly.

___

Ill say this again, im not going to lie. I cry like a ***** about capfal (CAPFAL CAPFAL CAPFAL), but capfal isnt really a counter, nor is marth or sheik. Just really bad matchups. It's not like there's no chance, it's just slim.
 
elvenarrow3000

elvenarrow3000

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Jul 22, 2007
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Huh. Then there're a ton of counters in Melee. Like Sheik against all of low tier.

Stupid Sheik.
 
Roman.

Roman.

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the IC and peach basically have the same counterpick stages and YS is like both of their worst stages, wobbles probably just went random since it didn't matter (as long as no mute city lol)
 
otg

otg

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On my 5th 4 Loko and still ****** you.
Ice Climbers worst level(s) are moving stages like Rainbow Cruise, Pokefloats, and to a lesser extent Jungle Japes. Not a whole lot of room for recovery, Nana gets intercepted and edgeguarded a lot easier, and on Rainbow Cruise (maybe others as well) there are predominantly platforms that don't allow for DeSyncing which screws up a lot of there game.
 
KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

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Nov 18, 2007
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Spiral Mountain
i think wobbles picked yoshi's because on yoshi's the ic can actually ko peach with random bair or f/d-smash or whatever. single ic has some kill power there. and since their recovery is pretty crap anyways, ic dying at low %s doesn't really change a whole lot. they're screwed off stage vs peach anyways. and fd was probably banned.
 
otg

otg

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On my 5th 4 Loko and still ****** you.
KirbyKaze said:
i think wobbles picked yoshi's because on yoshi's the ic can actually ko peach with random bair or f/d-smash or whatever. single ic has some kill power there. and since their recovery is pretty crap anyways, ic dying at low %s doesn't really change a whole lot. they're screwed off stage vs peach anyways. and fd was probably banned.
Click to expand...
Agreed, Yoshi's was definitely worse for Peach than for Icies.
 
rhan

rhan

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Europhoria said:
Ganon ***** low tiers pretty badly too because they all have terrible shields >_>
Click to expand...
Young Link is a low tier and he can take Ganon out rather easily. Also Young Link's Sheild isn't bad either.

Back to the topic. I think Falcon and Marth can take on Doc fairly easy.
 
otg

otg

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On my 5th 4 Loko and still ****** you.
Europhoria said:
No mention of Ice Climbers?
Click to expand...
Ice Climbers is 55:45 at best, I'd say it's closer to even. Doc can separate them with properly spaced Fairs, Dsmash and Bair. Sh/standing pills are really effective against them as it messes with a few of their approaches. Icies can mess you up pretty hard, just don't get grabbed.

Also, Roman:

I think Fox is easier, you think Falco is, lets just put em together (^.^)

Fox/Falco 60:40
 
Bullet Bill

Bullet Bill

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whoa. Been ages since I last posted here.

As for Doc counters. Good question and hard to answer cos so many of the matchups aren't that much one way or the other. Personally I think Falco and peach are the hardest but I don't even know if I'd call any of them counters.

A side note. Any one seen any good Doc vids recently? I've seen this guy farusu and he's the best Doc player I've seen in a loong time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdLFYC4AkBc

Cool pics btw. who's who?
 
Dogysamich

Dogysamich

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Bullet Bill said:
whoa. Been ages since I last posted here.

As for Doc counters. Good question and hard to answer cos so many of the matchups aren't that much one way or the other. Personally I think Falco and peach are the hardest but I don't even know if I'd call any of them counters.

A side note. Any one seen any good Doc vids recently? I've seen this guy farusu and he's the best Doc player I've seen in a loong time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdLFYC4AkBc

Cool pics btw. who's who?
Click to expand...
I saw those vids you favorited on youtube, they were good. Nice defensive doc.

In $mac's post, $mac is on the right, Shizwiz is next to him (2nd from left), Lambchops is 3rd, and Keepspeedn

on my post, $mac's on the left, XYZ is in the middle (on the back), and im on the left.
 
SmashMac

SmashMac

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Naples, FL.
XD Pink Reaper. I always look like that when I play apparently. I don't sandbag so in every match I play I'm concentrating that hard. Dogy was still robbing me of my virginity though in our Doc. dittoes.
 
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