Captain Phobos
Smash Apprentice
Cloud is overpowered. Since I'm a matchup scrub, I'm not sure who he generally loses to. I've started to play Cloud more recently, and I gotta know which characters I should watch out for.
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ok so cloud is not over power at all. he's very strong yes. but not over power. he has his weaknesses. you can easily destroy him off stage. his recovery is bad without limit and he can easily be destroyed at that state.Cloud is overpowered. Since I'm a matchup scrub, I'm not sure who he generally loses to. I've started to play Cloud more recently, and I gotta know which characters I should watch out for.
im a bowser main and well I'm gonna say don't do that mu. bowser gets bodied to easily against smart cloud players. the sword will negate any atempt of u getting in on him for a grab. i would say mario is a pretty good choice. that mu is 5-5 mario cloudBowser lives long, hits hard, and grabs all day long. When you hit limit you get heavier, so his up throw to up air stays true even at high %. I think eventually he will be a natural counter pick to Cloud.
Thanks!!im a bowser main and well I'm gonna say don't do that mu. bowser gets bodied to easily against smart cloud players. the sword will negate any atempt of u getting in on him for a grab. i would say mario is a pretty good choice. that mu is 5-5 mario cloud
It isn't really, though. Mario tends to have a really big problem with swords, due to his small size and consequent lack of range. Since Cloud has one of the longest ranges in the game with his sword, as well as good mobility, frame data, and kill options to boot, and his long range also gives him a better neutral against Mario.im a bowser main and well I'm gonna say don't do that mu. bowser gets bodied to easily against smart cloud players. the sword will negate any atempt of u getting in on him for a grab. i would say mario is a pretty good choice. that mu is 5-5 mario cloud
none of those are even close for being a sizable disadvantage for cloud, pikachu will probably become his worst matchup.There's four things that give Cloud the edge in matchups... neutral air, up air, down air, and LBCS. If a character has the tools to deal with those four moves, and can effectively move Cloud offstage without his limit, that character has a positive matchup. The two biggest names that come to mind are Bayonetta and Sheik, but Bowser and DK are on the rise, as well as Pikachu with the insane edgeguarding. (Personally, I think Shulk is a good counter if played with spacing as the priority, since his sword outranges Cloud, but most say the matchup is even or Cloud's favor.)
You enjoy getting comboed, juggled and gimped to death?Take this with a grain of salt, and keep in mind I mostly play online but I almost always play Ike as a Cloud counter.
While Cloud does still outrange Ike to a small degree, it's not an overwhelming advantage for Cloud given Rangell is a pretty damn big sword that has tons of range itself. Ike can also control the match to a degree due to his jab, and it seems like Cloud has a much harder time breaking through Ike's attacks.
Ike is also heavier then Cloud, and his endurance is insane. I have had Cloud players throw F-Smashes, Limit Break Cross Slashes and Beam Swords, and pretty much everything at me, and Ike has been able to come back and in some cases, I have been close to 200%.
Which means the match turns into a battle of endurance, and Ike wins because he's heavier, has one of the best horizontal recoveries in the game with Quick Draw which means Cloud has to pretty much KO Ike to the point that he can't use Quick Draw to get back or risk intercepting Ike's recovery, which is very risky given Cloud has a bad recovery without Limit Break.
Ike can also bring Cloud down with him with Aether.
Ike's greatest weapon against Cloud is his sheer power. Cloud is a powerful character, but Ike is stronger and has a wide array of options to knock out Cloud with. Like I said before, this can become a battle of endurance, and Ike is Cloud's superior in this regard.
Ike can survive pretty much all of Cloud's best hits and unless he's KOed outright or put in a position that he can't recover, Ike will keep coming back.
Ike has an insane number of combos he can pull off against Cloud, some of which can juggle Cloud.
Ike's specials are also all useful in this match. Counter when used properly can be used to either buy Ike breathing room or punish a bad choice by Cloud, Quick Draw is useful as a quick punish tool and can let Ike move across the stage or in the air to avoid follow-ups or escape, Aether can be useful, and even Eruption can punish Cloud if he misjudges an attack.
With all of this said, I still call the matchup even for the most part. I have played Cloud players who played around Ike's weaknesses and some of my matches have come down to the wire.
But I also think Ike is not dominated by Cloud, and if played well can even gain an advantage against Cloud. To put it another way, I pull Ike out when I play a Cloud and for the most part, I have gotten very good results.
Now, if anyone cares to add something to this or even correct me, I welcome their opinion.
What are you talking about? I've played numerous Cloud players as Ike, and I've really been combined or gimped by them.You enjoy getting comboed, juggled and gimped to death?
I was an Ike main before Cloud came out, and I switched over. I have lots of experience with both characters.Take this with a grain of salt, and keep in mind I mostly play online but I almost always play Ike as a Cloud counter.
While Cloud does still outrange Ike to a small degree, it's not an overwhelming advantage for Cloud given Rangell is a pretty damn big sword that has tons of range itself. Ike can also control the match to a degree due to his jab, and it seems like Cloud has a much harder time breaking through Ike's attacks.
Ike is also heavier then Cloud, and his endurance is insane. I have had Cloud players throw F-Smashes, Limit Break Cross Slashes and Beam Swords, and pretty much everything at me, and Ike has been able to come back and in some cases, I have been close to 200%.
Which means the match turns into a battle of endurance, and Ike wins because he's heavier, has one of the best horizontal recoveries in the game with Quick Draw which means Cloud has to pretty much KO Ike to the point that he can't use Quick Draw to get back or risk intercepting Ike's recovery, which is very risky given Cloud has a bad recovery without Limit Break.
Ike can also bring Cloud down with him with Aether.
Ike's greatest weapon against Cloud is his sheer power. Cloud is a powerful character, but Ike is stronger and has a wide array of options to knock out Cloud with. Like I said before, this can become a battle of endurance, and Ike is Cloud's superior in this regard.
Ike can survive pretty much all of Cloud's best hits and unless he's KOed outright or put in a position that he can't recover, Ike will keep coming back.
Ike has an insane number of combos he can pull off against Cloud, some of which can juggle Cloud.
Ike's specials are also all useful in this match. Counter when used properly can be used to either buy Ike breathing room or punish a bad choice by Cloud, Quick Draw is useful as a quick punish tool and can let Ike move across the stage or in the air to avoid follow-ups or escape, Aether can be useful, and even Eruption can punish Cloud if he misjudges an attack.
With all of this said, I still call the matchup even for the most part. I have played Cloud players who played around Ike's weaknesses and some of my matches have come down to the wire.
But I also think Ike is not dominated by Cloud, and if played well can even gain an advantage against Cloud. To put it another way, I pull Ike out when I play a Cloud and for the most part, I have gotten very good results.
Now, if anyone cares to add something to this or even correct me, I welcome their opinion.
He still gets comboed for an insane amount of damage, he has no good combo breakers and his weight lets cloud eat him alive in the air and while being comboed, and most of his tools are broken outright by uairWhat are you talking about? I've played numerous Cloud players as Ike, and I've really been combined or gimped by them.
Now, could top level Cloud players do that to me? Yeah, I'm sure they could.
My point is that Ike from the matches I've played, tends to do well against Cloud.
Jigglypuff is the “lose” buttonJigglypuff... is probably the worst choice.
Cloud gets a free kill if he so much as grabs her about 105%
I hate to bring the bad news bears upon you, but Cloud is easily one of both of their worse matchups, greninja is combo food for cloud and endlessly gets juggled, Mario is outranged, can't catch up to cloud at all and also gets juggled.I'd like to think that a high level character who isn't immediately top 3 but still gives Cloud trouble is Mario. He, and Greninja, can effortless edgeguard him once he's off stage (or at least for him to burn Limit) with Water. Add in being good at combos and it seems there's a solid recipee for at least a neutral match-up. Lose the neutral, and find those limits washed away. Salem pulling out his Greninja to (hilariously) end M2K's Cloud in a tournament near the end of this year comes to mind.
Huh.I hate to bring the bad news bears upon you, but Cloud is easily one of both of their worse matchups, greninja is combo food for cloud and endlessly gets juggled, Mario is outranged, can't catch up to cloud at all and also gets juggled.
Oh man how about that time Link won a set against Abadango's Mewtwo? Bad matchup for Mewtwo I'm sure of it. Or maybe that time Larry's fox was taken out by a Donkey Kong? -1 DK's favor no doubts there. Or possibly even the time both Mac and Roy took out Zack's bayonetta? Damn netta those are some bad matchups.Huh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HRAxO3olBE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkWJ-28cC90
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK3X_Uo_vBQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CdVGAbi7_8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkDcL9MPfAQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUvK_4Rialg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq-WcrTsMmY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyBGrBF-uew
Define "worse", then. Mario v Cloud looks at -least- even, and while I'd accept Greninja not winning the match up, I don't think it's as bad for Greninja as against other characters, nor that Greninja has more trouble fighting Cloud than he would fighting, for example, Fox or Sonic.
Had I posted just one video of one random match, particularly just low level matches, I'd absolutely agree. But that's multiple different videos, particularly of high level players, consistently going at it, showing the results and the matches that back it up several times. It's not just a one-off thing, like Zero getting rekt by Palutena or Duck Hunt just because he didn't know the match up. That's multiple times hundreds of dollars got decided, which backs up my suggestion more than being passive aggressive: Mario is capable of getting in and comboing Cloud much better than other people would believe he can, and possesses several deadly ways of gimping Cloud's recovery to end him. Greninja doesn't have as much general success, but certainly has the tools to be able to do so at the high level competitive rank.Oh man how about that time Link won a set against Abadango's Mewtwo? Bad matchup for Mewtwo I'm sure of it. Or maybe that time Larry's fox was taken out by a Donkey Kong? -1 DK's favor no doubts there. Or possibly even the time both Mac and Roy took out Zack's bayonetta? Damn netta those are some bad matchups.