Who else is nervous about Brawl potentially sucking?

[Neo Samurai]

Here's the reality: THE GAME WILL BE VERY DIFFERENT. IT WILL NOT BE A SIMPLE TWEAK OF MELEE. Anyone who expects that is a fool. Sakurai has already said that Miyamoto told him that was the plan IF Sakurai refused the project. However, Sakurai would not stand for it being barely changed. Everyone here will be pissed, because characters will play differently, and they wll have to relearn a lot of things. People have spent years learning to play this game. I think they need to stop being stubborn and learn to get over it. Brawl will be different, and theyre going to have to relearn smash. People need to accept change. Wavedashin is neat and all but its not that important. Plenty of people WD and suck. Plenty don't WD and don't suck. I have a feeling its going to be Halo 2 all over again. I completely better game will get crapped on because its different.

 

[Neo Samurai]

Oh another thing Brawl will have over Melee is it has the potential to have a way stronger community with online. Anyone can match anyone else with a simple exchange of friend codes.

 

[Sensai]

I wonder if Nintendo would make 2 types of Brawl, one with advanced techniques and one without them or maybe a dumbed down verison of them. I highly doubt Nintendo would do that since the only franchise that has 2 versions [or more] of each sequels is Pokemon and we all know how successful that series has been, it just never dies.

I know you're probably just reaching for ideas, but seriously. Just no.

I agree Dylan_Tnga. I have only been seriously playing Smash since November of 06, but I still think the sound that Gamecube controllers produce when a player is Wavedashing is almost comforting to a Smash Player

I WD with Ganon to calm myself, actually. Seriously, no joke.

GAW, please tell me the issue number so that I may gain a copy and peruse it. Thanks a ton.

A DS version of the game has been discussed many times, but for some reason has been put down every time it's been offered. Unsure of why, really. They ported DKR to the DS and added Wifi, so why not do the same for Smash?

 

[Mr.GAW]

Volume 195
September 2005
Shadow on cover.

 

[Atom Samsher]

Honestly i am quite worried, i hope there isnt like only 10 characters and they are all serious with like opera music in the back, i like the "playful" approach of the last two so all i can say is "hope"

 

[Yota]

Eugh. I apologize.

I keep saying I have no problem with people having fun with this game. Maybe ''pathetic noobs'' is a bit harsh, but what can I say I'm loyal to competitive smash and find items to do nothing but interfere with the gameplay.

Again, if you play smash for fun, great. We all do, drop it. Oh and please don't try to imply I have trouble organizing my thoughts in my writing just because I hit the censor two or three times, thats uncalled for.

Yes we were both a bit harsh there. Returning fire like that was childish, and I apologize. Bursting out like that is usually against my nature, but as you could probably figure I was having a pretty lousy day. You just as entitled to your own opinion as I am, and if I went and scolded everyone having a different opinion than me... I would have a couple thousand posts by now. Acting like that turns me into a hypocrite, (which I hate) so again sorry 'bout the rant.

PS: I'd still like to know who is responsible for the hoards of poor random emoticons.

 

[Ikural]

Personally, I dont wavedash with my main character but I'm going to a pathetic tourney today with people who cant play so.... I'm going to waveddash the s*** out of them.
It's fun. And the sound is beatuiful. Nothing calms a sound more than GC controllers.
Thats why, when I tape my fights i never use a dvd recored IN the tv.

 

[Var Parasite]

(I haven't read the whole thread, tell me if this is a problem.)
If SSBM---->SSBB = SSB---->SSBM it would be great, I mean just look at the jump between SSB and SSBM in the good direction, no offence but when compered SSB was kinda (negative word). However there are a lot of options for improving the game taken. And even if SSBB sucks Nintendo and Sakurai will probably learn from thier mistakes and make a game that is even better than our best expectations of SSBB.

 

[Benihona]

I think nintendo will do just fine... they have spent along time on the game

 

[Ikural]

nintendo will most likely make a good game but again, WD and "glitches" like that make the game a lot more fun and should be kept in.

 

[Overswarm]

There's some things you have to remember.


One, there is online play. This means hitboxes, almost inevitably, will be larger so that you can play online. This means LAN play (which means tournament play) will have 0 lag, but still huge friggin hitboxes.

Say, Peach's bair for just about everything.


Two, they went from technical skill (knowing when to press buttons, and what direction to hold the control sick) being the most important in SSB to your reaction time and finger speed in SSBM. Brawl may very well go back to having technical skill be the big thing, and if so, you can expect the game to be much slower, and much more about getting those 0 to death combos off at your leisure.


Three, there were significant changes from NTSC to PAL. There will more than likely be no real "spikes" in the game. Characters vertical / hoizontal KO power will more than likely be reduced. There wont be nearly as many "this move is broken so I'm going to use it forever", like with Sheik's fair, or fox's u-smash/u-air in the game. Chain grabbing will more than likely be removed for the most part, if not altogether.

Four, there were significant changes from SSB to SSBM. Characters that were really good (pika due to speed and priority, Ness due to DJ canceling attacks and awesome throws, kirby because of his awesome recovery and spiking power) in SSB, now suck wax fruit. The things that made them so good don't even really exist anymore. Shield lag was reduced, so now DJCancelling attacks, w hile good, doesn't **** your shield. Throws aren't as strong. Those with high priority are all slower. Kirby's recovery is good, and Jigglypuff's is better, but they are so light that it doesn't even matter.

Characters like Fox/Falco are good because of their shine and comboing ability, so maybe we won't be able to JC shines anymore, or at least not on frame 1. Marth's sweetspot on the tip of his sword and disjointed hitbox make him amazing, expect to see lots of people have more priority to compensate. Sheik's chainthrowing and broken tilt/fair combos are already damaged in PAL, similar things won't be happening in Brawl.

Five, from looking at the trailer, we can already see significant changes in jump height. People are going to jump MUCH higher. This means that aerial comboing and juggling will be very prevalent, and a side effect may be that shuffling is not nearly as effective since you jump high even when short hopping. The hitstun animation seems to be longer, which means smash DI (if DI even works the same) will be much EASIER. Attacks seem, generally, to be slower, which means comboing will be more about patience than reaction speed.


There will be change, and most of it we can already see coming. Most isn't going to be very good, sadly.

 

[Shai Hulud]

As a longtime Halo fan I am accustomed to developers disappointing the hardcore fans by removing beloved aspects of the game in favor of shiny new stuff. I also am not impressed with Nintendo's recent track record, which clearly reveals a paradigm shift from "skillful gameplay" to "fun and random." For instance...

Mario Kart 64 => Double Dash
Mario Tennis => Mario Power Tennis

In both these games we see new elements introduced to favor the beginner. In Double Dash the lagging racers get a huge speed boost, and items are way overpowered. Hopping and most of the powersliding game are gone. In Mario Power Tennis they introduced the ridiculous "power shots" which I'm sad to say make me think of the Brawl "specials."

Although the competitive community for Smash is relatively large (~50,000 - 60,000), it is still a small fraction of the general Smash community (8 million). The competitive Halo community is even larger and has been almost completely ignored by Bungie, so I wouldn't expect any special treatment from Nintendo.

From the Brawl trailers one can discern a few troubling things:

1) The game looks slower. I realize it's not top-notch players demonstrating, but even simple things like the dash animations are noticably slower.

2) The game utilizes freeze frames extensively. I.e., characters get stuck in place during "drill" attacks, essentially eliminating DI.

3) Wavedashing appears to have been replaced by a new wavedash-like roll.

And these are just engine problems. There are also going to be balance issues. From first glance Metaknight seems seriously broken. But we'll see. I'm not optimistic, but I'll reserve final judgment for the finished product.

 

[Sensai]

Overswarm, Shai Hulud, your posts are excellent.

For the sake of the game that we all know and love, I hope that you are at least somewhat mistaken in a lot of what you said.

 

[Volrec]

I really hope it doesn't, i've dreamed of online play ever since Christmas 2001(When I got melee), but if its a sucky online game, then im gonna be really sad.

 

[JesterBox]

Yay thanks for uploading that image Mr. GAW. Heh they said "mind boggling" I had not read the whole article but I remembered the things the stuck out at me

I realize WDing is not essential even if its not included, im convinced it'll be great

It'll probaly be like Cherry Coke, Familair put with a delicous new flavor

 

[Ikural]

Jesterbox....I hate that analogy....
I hated cherry coke...

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

There's some things you have to remember.


One, there is online play. This means hitboxes, almost inevitably, will be larger so that you can play online. This means LAN play (which means tournament play) will have 0 lag, but still huge friggin hitboxes.

Say, Peach's bair for just about everything.


Two, they went from technical skill (knowing when to press buttons, and what direction to hold the control sick) being the most important in SSB to your reaction time and finger speed in SSBM. Brawl may very well go back to having technical skill be the big thing, and if so, you can expect the game to be much slower, and much more about getting those 0 to death combos off at your leisure.


Three, there were significant changes from NTSC to PAL. There will more than likely be no real "spikes" in the game. Characters vertical / hoizontal KO power will more than likely be reduced. There wont be nearly as many "this move is broken so I'm going to use it forever", like with Sheik's fair, or fox's u-smash/u-air in the game. Chain grabbing will more than likely be removed for the most part, if not altogether.

Four, there were significant changes from SSB to SSBM. Characters that were really good (pika due to speed and priority, Ness due to DJ canceling attacks and awesome throws, kirby because of his awesome recovery and spiking power) in SSB, now suck wax fruit. The things that made them so good don't even really exist anymore. Shield lag was reduced, so now DJCancelling attacks, w hile good, doesn't **** your shield. Throws aren't as strong. Those with high priority are all slower. Kirby's recovery is good, and Jigglypuff's is better, but they are so light that it doesn't even matter.

Characters like Fox/Falco are good because of their shine and comboing ability, so maybe we won't be able to JC shines anymore, or at least not on frame 1. Marth's sweetspot on the tip of his sword and disjointed hitbox make him amazing, expect to see lots of people have more priority to compensate. Sheik's chainthrowing and broken tilt/fair combos are already damaged in PAL, similar things won't be happening in Brawl.

Five, from looking at the trailer, we can already see significant changes in jump height. People are going to jump MUCH higher. This means that aerial comboing and juggling will be very prevalent, and a side effect may be that shuffling is not nearly as effective since you jump high even when short hopping. The hitstun animation seems to be longer, which means smash DI (if DI even works the same) will be much EASIER. Attacks seem, generally, to be slower, which means comboing will be more about patience than reaction speed.


There will be change, and most of it we can already see coming. Most isn't going to be very good, sadly.

You're right about the jump height thing. That doesn't make a difference to me, as long as short hops are relativly short as they represent 85% of the jumps I do. I Dont think theyll take out SHing, it was in classic and its in ssbm, I hope they don't take out shorthopping at least. As with wavedashing, if theres no short hopping in brawl, I wont play it.

I disagree with your point on classic being more technical than melee. I dont know how well I stack up to the best classic smash players, but I could do the whole 0% - death combo thing and whatever, because I found it EXTREMLY easy after I came back to it after melee due to the lowered speed. Sure classic required good timing, but so does melee. Melee might not have 0-death garunteed comboes, but **** have you seen players like Darkrain go?

SSBM Requires precise timing (to a pinpoint if you wanna do the MOST complicated techniques in the game, Samus' double missile comes to mind) AND incredible speed. I think that in every way possible is surpasses its predecessor in difficulty.

 

[Neo Samurai]

You are making pointless conjecture and a poor judgement from it.

There's some things you have to remember.


One, there is online play. This means hitboxes, almost inevitably, will be larger so that you can play online. This means LAN play (which means tournament play) will have 0 lag, but still huge friggin hitboxes.

Say, Peach's bair for just about everything.


Two, they went from technical skill (knowing when to press buttons, and what direction to hold the control sick) being the most important in SSB to your reaction time and finger speed in SSBM. Brawl may very well go back to having technical skill be the big thing, and if so, you can expect the game to be much slower, and much more about getting those 0 to death combos off at your leisure.


Three, there were significant changes from NTSC to PAL. There will more than likely be no real "spikes" in the game. Characters vertical / hoizontal KO power will more than likely be reduced. There wont be nearly as many "this move is broken so I'm going to use it forever", like with Sheik's fair, or fox's u-smash/u-air in the game. Chain grabbing will more than likely be removed for the most part, if not altogether.

Four, there were significant changes from SSB to SSBM. Characters that were really good (pika due to speed and priority, Ness due to DJ canceling attacks and awesome throws, kirby because of his awesome recovery and spiking power) in SSB, now suck wax fruit. The things that made them so good don't even really exist anymore. Shield lag was reduced, so now DJCancelling attacks, w hile good, doesn't **** your shield. Throws aren't as strong. Those with high priority are all slower. Kirby's recovery is good, and Jigglypuff's is better, but they are so light that it doesn't even matter.

Characters like Fox/Falco are good because of their shine and comboing ability, so maybe we won't be able to JC shines anymore, or at least not on frame 1. Marth's sweetspot on the tip of his sword and disjointed hitbox make him amazing, expect to see lots of people have more priority to compensate. Sheik's chainthrowing and broken tilt/fair combos are already damaged in PAL, similar things won't be happening in Brawl.

Five, from looking at the trailer, we can already see significant changes in jump height. People are going to jump MUCH higher. This means that aerial comboing and juggling will be very prevalent, and a side effect may be that shuffling is not nearly as effective since you jump high even when short hopping. The hitstun animation seems to be longer, which means smash DI (if DI even works the same) will be much EASIER. Attacks seem, generally, to be slower, which means comboing will be more about patience than reaction speed.


There will be change, and most of it we can already see coming. Most isn't going to be very good, sadly.

1: There is no reason for the hitboxes to be bigger for online play. That doesn't make sense.

2: Conjecture, you are merely stating a possibilty

3: This is definitely a good thing (I think you meant to convey that)

4: This is inevitable. People need to get over it. People will have to learn new characters. It isnt a problem for true Soul Calibur players, it shouldnt be for true smashers. You have no idea what kind of balancing they are working out. They might shorten Marth's sword or just his attack range for all you know (that would make WAY MORE sense.) You have no way of knowing and you are guessing.

5: That seems to be a fair assessment but I say its still too early too tell



Overall i think people are overly pessimistic and resistant to change. Unfortunately i doubt Brawl will be as dramatic improvement as melee was, i dont think there is room for enough for them to add to the game as much as they did there (wow that sentence sucked... long day). Let us keep an open mind until we see more though

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

3: This is definitely a good thing (I think you meant to convey that)

See, I don't agree. Because his point is just scrubby whining. You don't use any move in melee endlessly. In fact if you are the slightest bit predictable and your mindgames arent good enough, a seriously good player (like Bam the best in Canada) will pick you apart like nothing. The ONLY exception is if you play a killller falco. Falco doesn't really need to be THAT unpredictable, just well excecuted since he has SHL. Oh man do I love SHL...

So no, shieks fair, fox's upsmash, marths fsmash, whatever you wanna scrub about, they're not broken, they're not cheap.

''Broken'' is Kirby's down air in classic smash, there are NO moves that are just that expoitible in melee, none, even chaingrabbing because a skilled player can DI/Mindgame out of a chaingrab, and even if he cant he can still get back into the game after the throw anyway.

So in conclusion there are no ''this move is broken so I'm going to use it forever'' moves in melee. If you keep getting killed by something, it's not the move thats killing you, its you thats killing yourself by letting yourself be killed by the same move over and over.

I am in NO way implying overswarm is a n00b, at -all- just that believing any one move can be repeated endlessly and remain effective is stupid really.

 

[Neo Samurai]

See, I don't agree. Because his point is just scrubby whining. You don't use any move in melee endlessly. In fact if you are the slightest bit predictable and your mindgames arent good enough, a seriously good player (like Bam the best in Canada) will pick you apart like nothing. The ONLY exception is if you play a killller falco. Falco doesn't really need to be THAT unpredictable, just well excecuted since he has SHL. Oh man do I love SHL...

So no, shieks fair, fox's upsmash, marths fsmash, whatever you wanna scrub about, they're not broken, they're not cheap.

''Broken'' is Kirby's down air in classic smash, there are NO moves that are just that expoitible in melee, none, even chaingrabbing because a skilled player can DI/Mindgame out of a chaingrab, and even if he cant he can still get back into the game after the throw anyway.

So in conclusion there are no ''this move is broken so I'm going to use it forever'' moves in melee. If you keep getting killed by something, it's not the move thats killing you, its you thats killing yourself by letting yourself be killed by the same move over and over.

I am in NO way implying overswarm is a n00b, at -all- just that believing any one move can be repeated endlessly and remain effective is stupid really.

I agree with what you say. I said my response entirely with Falco's drill spike in mind. However I would still prefer a touch more balancing. I suppose I could make a better judgement if I played PAL Melee.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I agree with what you say. I said my response entirely with Falco's drill spike in mind. However I would still prefer a touch more balancing. I suppose I could make a better judgement if I played PAL Melee.

Argh, falco's ''dair to compare''

We all get hung up on a trouble move from our opponents, but you have to realize (and im sure you do) that with proper mindgames you can avoid any attack pretty much since the guy will think you are going to do something, but then you do otherwise, he misses, and you counter him with a move of your liking.

That's how melee works, I find. There's a rhythm to it, either one person is in control, or the other. Or both are locked in a battle of the mindgames, trying to draw the otherone not even into lag, but into the slightest mistake in spacing so that you can immediatly punish with a dash-grab and go into anything from there accordingly depending on your character from a combo, to a tech chase grab, to a chainthrow if you have the right matchup

 

[Sensai]

See, I don't agree. Because his point is just scrubby whining. You don't use any move in melee endlessly. In fact if you are the slightest bit predictable and your mindgames arent good enough, a seriously good player (like Bam the best in Canada) will pick you apart like nothing. The ONLY exception is if you play a killller falco. Falco doesn't really need to be THAT unpredictable, just well excecuted since he has SHL. Oh man do I love SHL..

His entire post didn't seem the least bit whiney to me at all; in fact, it seemed rather level headed, and he thought through everything logically. To your remark about endlessly using a move I ask this: have you ever PLAYED a Peach player? It's obvious the Dsmash is coming, but I'll be ****ed if that thing is not beyond all types of Godliness. I know for a fact it can take Fox to 30% without the Fox down cancelling, as well as turning them around, making recovery for some characters (Ganon, Falcon) much harder.

In your next point you define broken by saying it's Kirby's Dair in Smash 64. And you make a good point: no move is that broken. But let's be serious: there are moves in Melee that are too good, just as there are moves that are completely useless.

Dylan, who do you main? I may be preaching to the choir (or the enemy, mind you) with this point, but chain grabbing for some characters is **** near impossible to get away from. Sheik throwing a Ganon/Bowser is, if Ganon or Bowser have any percent, an X to death combo. There's no way around it, with the exception of hoping that said Sheik screws up along the way. Sure, you can attempt to influence that, but if they just dash dance in that place they can't possibly mess up, as they've got both sides gaurded.

[/rant]

And about the whole shorthopping thing...I'm 99.9% sure that they will not take it out. I cannot guarentee it, as I'm not Sakurai, but there's simply no reason to take it out. My fear, however, is that it will be not so much of a shorthop as we have all come to know. If, like many of you have said, the jumps are larger, then the shorthops will, in turn, be larger as well, being that a shorthop is usually considered to be half the length of a normal jump.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

His entire post didn't seem the least bit whiney to me at all; in fact, it seemed rather level headed, and he thought through everything logically. To your remark about endlessly using a move I ask this: have you ever PLAYED a Peach player? It's obvious the Dsmash is coming, but I'll be ****ed if that thing is not beyond all types of Godliness. I know for a fact it can take Fox to 30% without the Fox down cancelling, as well as turning them around, making recovery for some characters (Ganon, Falcon) much harder.

In your next point you define broken by saying it's Kirby's Dair in Smash 64. And you make a good point: no move is that broken. But let's be serious: there are moves in Melee that are too good, just as there are moves that are completely useless.

Dylan, who do you main? I may be preaching to the choir (or the enemy, mind you) with this point, but chain grabbing for some characters is **** near impossible to get away from. Sheik throwing a Ganon/Bowser is, if Ganon or Bowser have any percent, an X to death combo. There's no way around it, with the exception of hoping that said Sheik screws up along the way. Sure, you can attempt to influence that, but if they just dash dance in that place they can't possibly mess up, as they've got both sides gaurded.

[/rant]

And about the whole shorthopping thing...I'm 99.9% sure that they will not take it out. I cannot guarentee it, as I'm not Sakurai, but there's simply no reason to take it out. My fear, however, is that it will be not so much of a shorthop as we have all come to know. If, like many of you have said, the jumps are larger, then the shorthops will, in turn, be larger as well, being that a shorthop is usually considered to be half the length of a normal jump.

Yeah, I didn't mean so much that he was whining, but that people who get frustrated and hung up on ONE move and call it ''broken'' are scrubs.. I think he understood what I mean too, he made great points, so I respect his opinion.

Peache's Dsmash is just one of those moves hehhe, I know what you mean about seeing it coming..

You're on your way back to the ledge! Peach WDs to edgehog and suddenly your options are limited, you MUST teleport to the ledge, causing you a second of lag! You get Dsmashed! There is NOTHING you could have done about it

I play shiek as my main, so I think it's pretty obvious why I have no qualms about chaingrabbing. But I also play Fox extremly seriously and almost anyone can chaingrab fox due to his fast-fally nature hes just upthrow material. ANd even if you cant chaingrab fox, upthrow with almost any character ****s his world up hard.

I also play ganon, Im rather good with him but I dont trust non high tiers in tournament situations, so I wouldn't call him one of my real characters since I would never compete with him. Im hoping though before my next tournament, and after this coming one saturday to work more on my fox, but also beef up my falco playing.

I am extremly confident in my shiek playing though, I cant wait to put my skills to the test in this tournament, as I ***** many highly skilled players from this forum at the last bi-weekly smash gathering. I also got beaten, but I pulled off a couple 4 stocks, which felt great.


About the Shorthop thing, Im pretty sure itll be in the game, and unchanged. A shorthop wouldnt be a shorthop if you jumped high with it, they'd never be jerks enough to make a shorthop a regular jump and a regular jump a super high stupid jump. I mean I see no other reason for messing with jumps like that unless for the sole purpose of pissing people off. (same with removing / changing air dodging and wavedashing)

Yes we were both a bit harsh there. Returning fire like that was childish, and I apologize. Bursting out like that is usually against my nature, but as you could probably figure I was having a pretty lousy day. You just as entitled to your own opinion as I am, and if I went and scolded everyone having a different opinion than me... I would have a couple thousand posts by now. Acting like that turns me into a hypocrite, (which I hate) so again sorry 'bout the rant.

PS: I'd still like to know who is responsible for the hoards of poor random emoticons.

You mean you're man enough to admit you're wrong on an online forum? Shiiiit, Id buy you a beer if I could like the irishman I am. No problems brother of smash \m/

*seriously I've never seen the likes of this before!*

 

[Yota]

*seriously I've never seen the likes of this before!*

Uhm... thanks?

Yeah. You and I are pretty much polar opposites when it comes to SSB. You are one with the dark side.

For example, you say the SHL is all-awesome. Falco must be a FPS addict. (Seriously, that is all you do in FPS's. Jump and shoot. ) Chaingrabbing, when done correctly, is pretty much just a free hoard of damage given to a victim who has little to no control over the matter. I think I would rather allow my foe to take a free-throw at me with a bob-omb. I'm not around any other pro smashers, and I don't use Peach much, so I'll have to accept your judgment when it comes to her D-smash. Don't forget about fox's shine infinite, though you probably deserve the win if you actually manage to pull it off for long enough. And to wrap up my incomplete list of freaky moves, there is Jigg's wall-O-pain.

Thus ends Yota's 0-structure post. The results of attempting to think at 2:30am after many nights of little sleep.

 

[Ikural]

Well. They could have done 3 jumps.
High jump.
Normal Jump.
Short hop.
It would be extremelly easy programming.

 

[Aeramis]

I am not worried about the game sucking from what I seen on the trailers, this game should be fine. I just hope they balance charaters as much as they can and try to enforce fair gameplay for online or better yet don't include a ranking system so less people will want to cheat. I don't see many reasons people would want to mod/cheat/standby online for brawl unless it has a ranking system other then that you might still run into afew random matches where people are messing around for amusement or too be an ******* but you can just leave the match then and it will not matter. I will still enjoy this game and online play, if you can that is, reguardless of how they change it when it comes out.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Uhm... thanks?

Yeah. You and I are pretty much polar opposites when it comes to SSB. You are one with the dark side.

For example, you say the SHL is all-awesome. Falco must be a FPS addict. (Seriously, that is all you do in FPS's. Jump and shoot. ) Chaingrabbing, when done correctly, is pretty much just a free hoard of damage given to a victim who has little to no control over the matter. I think I would rather allow my foe to take a free-throw at me with a bob-omb. I'm not around any other pro smashers, and I don't use Peach much, so I'll have to accept your judgment when it comes to her D-smash. Don't forget about fox's shine infinite, though you probably deserve the win if you actually manage to pull it off for long enough. And to wrap up my incomplete list of freaky moves, there is Jigg's wall-O-pain.

Thus ends Yota's 0-structure post. The results of attempting to think at 2:30am after many nights of little sleep.

Ok.

Read this

I'm not saying you're a scrub, but you have dangerous thoughts that might make you fall into scrubdom. Scrubdom is the darkside, not tournament winning mindsets.

Remember, ALL THAT MATTERS IN SSBM IS WINNING, DO WHATEVER IT TAKES UNLESS ITS BANNED BY THE TOURNAMENT (example : Infinate stalling tactics)

Fox's shine infinate is ALL theory. I can pull it off on practice mode since I have godly tech, but in a real game? You've gotta be ****ting me. If the shine infinate was possible youd see it in pro matches but you don't since you could never get it off properly under the pressure, and your opponent will be doing everything possible to escape.

In a real game I find its safer to go for a drillshine - grab. If you can get a 2nd shine / wavedash in, do it, but unless you're RIGHT next to the guy after you shine and wavedash out of the shine , and you rarely are since it requires a pretty much perfect WD you cant upsmash or shine him, but a dashgrab is -almost- garunteed to hit.

Chainthrowing isn't as imbalanced as you think, since just landing a grab on a pro smasher requires epic ammounts of mindgames, and with proper DI / mindgames you can escape a chaingrab. Remember, if the chaingrabber makes the slightest mistake, you're out of it and can come right back in the match.

There are SOME chainthrows that you just cant escape, and my solution to those is to avoid the matchup that causes them, Marth vs Shiek, Falcon vs Peach, etc.

 

[Shai Hulud]

There are SOME chainthrows that you just cant escape, and my solution to those is to avoid the matchup that causes them, Marth vs Shiek, Falcon vs Peach, etc.

Sheik doesn't chainthrow Marth and Marth definitely doesn't chainthrow Sheik, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. There are few legitimate chainthrows amongst the top characters.

I don't see what the big deal is about them anyway. They're usually only possible for a set amount of percentage anyway, maybe 50-60%. That's two Dsmashes from Peach. That's a grab combo from the ICs. That's .5 seconds being comboed by Falco. There are plenty of powerful techniques and a game isn't broken unless one character has them all.

 

[the_air_up_there7]

Dude shut up, don't jynx it!!! Maybe a little nervous but more anxious for it to come out.

 

[Ikural]

You can't jynx something thats already almost done...
Thats a BIG signature

 

[mario-man]

Yeah, how did you make your sig space big enough to fit it?? I seriously want to know.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

You can't jynx something thats already almost done...
Thats a BIG signature

It's breaking the rules too I believe.

125 Height 500 width or something like that.


Anyway. Smash 64=no suck, Melee=no suck Nintendo=no suck

We'll be fine.

 

[Seth'White Fox']

Tsk Tsk Tsk, You all dissapoint me. Your anxioty is ill-placed my friends for Nintendo, to put it bluntly, knows there sh*t! A while before Ninteddo realised thr Brawl footage, no, a short time after they realesed Melee! Nintendo said "We'd run it past you, Sakurai-san."(Is refering to another Smash sequal) at E3 footage was shown, the masses screemed and applauded, while Nintendo asked Sakurai to direct a new sequal to the Smash Brothers Serises. It took alot of thought on his part. Mr. Aonuma ran to him with enormious excitement yelling: Sakurai -san! Your gonna do it right!? Make the Smash sequal, right?! Sakurairealized its HIS responsibilty.

When Smash 64 came out, he and his crew were gently shoveing off a new infant-of-a-game, not knowing where it would bring them. Melee? After that they were applauding there teenage seriese , and how much it had brought smiles to the younger generation. What of Brawl? When a game reaches its teenage years its vulnirable to change. To unkind producers, to soulless game creaters. Nintendo wants the soul of Smash to be un-touched by those evils. They know what there doing.

Nintendo gave Sakurai some its top. Its most elete. Each person with AT LEAST 10,000 matches each. With a save file to back it up!

Nintendo gave Sakurai his own branch. One entire branch devoted to one series and one series only. Can you guess what series that is? Not only that but Sakurai even moved to Tokyo so he wouldent lose time beceause of his nighttime commute.

You belive theres anything to fear? You belive that Nintendo will screw up? Shame on you! If anything you should be worrying for X-Box 360 and PS3, and how it can POSSIBLY surive the immense hit Brawl will be! My smash brothers and my smash sisters: FEAR NOT Nintendo, no, SAKURAI-SAN will not fail us.

One more little addation: If you would quit on Brawl, for something as little as ONE MOVE, a game that Sakurai is pushing his very limits just to bring to us, I can not look upon you with respect.
(On a side note Sakurai has stated that he wants to focus on ariel combat more, so expect air doge to still be in there, and by accioation wavedashing. Also I am very found of wave dashing I would be sad for its departure as well, but life goes on, more and better moves can and will be found, of that I promise!)

*&%*End extremly serious rant*%&*

Anyway before closeing this I just want you all to know that I didn't want to hurt anyone fealings, or any of that, and if it did happen I do aplogise, but I DO NOT and NEVER WILL take any of it, not even a WORD, back. At the end of it all, we shouldent worry about how they do there job, there pros. Talking about how they could screw up is only discourgeing thoes of them(If there are any) that have or will visit this site. and thats the LAST thing they need right now. 'Specially sence most of there time is devoted to OUR enjoyment.


EDIT:
Changed some facts re-checked over by, Devastlian, Positive rep him for takeing his time to find/remember those changes.

 

[Mr.GAW]

White Fox..... God smiles on you today.

 

[Ikural]

Those were some of the best points i have EVER read.
You know your stuff Seth'White Fox'

 

[Seth'White Fox']

^^ Thank you both, its been a while sence I posted so I wanted to come back with a vengence! And please call me Seth. Although I wish I would have sent that thing threw spell check... =/

 

[Ikural]

I think you seriously just killed this topic though.
We have nothing more to discuss...

 

[Devastlian]

at E3 footage was shown, the masses screemed and applauded, while Nintendo asked Sakuri to direct a new sequal to the Smash Brothers Serises.

Mr. Sakurai agreed to direct the game almost a year before the first footage was shown...<.<

Many fans ran to him with enormious excitement yelling: Sakuri-san! Your gonna do it right!? Make the Smash sequal, right?! Sakuri realized its HIS responsibilty.

That sounds more like what Mr. Aonuma said to him...

Nintendo gave Sakuri some its top. Its most elete.

It isn't really certain that The Studio is part of Nintendo.

Not only that but Sakuri even moved to Tokyo so he wouldent lose time beceause of his morning commute.

It doesn't really matter but...he said nighttime commute.

Also, you spelled Sakurai wrong...every time. However, that was sort of inspirational.

 

[Seth'White Fox']

XD Future time saved brought to you by Seth and the Clan of White Fox! Please have a nice day!

XD Off-topic much, but as you said I can't think of anything else to say...

*Blushes* Whops, shoulda checked my sources better. >.<
Thanks for pointing all that out for me. And sory Mr. Aonuma for refering you as just a fan(Although I'm not exactly shure who you are *Blushes even more*)

However Nintendo helped found "The Studio" and Smash Brothers is theirs so you could say its part of Nintendo. Although I don't spesificly remember saying there part of Nintendo, only said Nintendo gave Sakurai it.

Also from what I read I thought Nintendo kinda sprung the news on him...

EDIT
Oh By the way I fixed what you said was wrong, Devastlian, hows it look now?

 

[fleapy]

Hah. There is absolutely no way this game will suck. If it does, it because its so good it takes a while to get used to its goodness!