Who needs help with Combos, Damages, Advanced Tactics for Falco, etc.

[Myztek]

Myztec, what vid did you see me waveshining fast in? And what I do is both.

I slide my hands from down b, to X and R. Over the A button to wavedash really fast out of the shine. Or I'll just let go of the B button and then push X and then R really quickly. Its all about the timing that makes it fast. Like if you slide to fast, you'll just short hop out of your shine.

I just noticed at INNsomnia V, really.

 

[invertigo]

can you wave shine on a guy's shield without getting grabbed? my friend said you could and ill admit i had a hard time grabbing him.

 

[MasterGary]

That Fox vid was amazing, your realy good.

 

[Handorin]

can you wave shine on a guy's shield without getting grabbed? my friend said you could and ill admit i had a hard time grabbing him.

Theoretically, yes, but the grab timing is so difficult it isnt worth trying to do.

 

[meepxzero]

hey shiz i was wondering what are the best times to use short hop dairs as opposed to short hop nairs? I find myself using shorthop nairs a ton more than short hop dairs just because they are a lot easier to l cancel and i can pull the aerial fast to have more prority than dair. Im guessin one advantage is people that cc, but is there any advantage using a dair over an nair?

 

[Myztek]

hey shiz i was wondering what are the best times to use short hop dairs as opposed to short hop nairs? I find myself using shorthop nairs a ton more than short hop dairs just because they are a lot easier to l cancel and i can pull the aerial fast to have more prority than dair. Im guessin one advantage is people that cc, but is there any advantage using a dair over an nair?

Larger (not necessarily larger, but better) hit box. Sets up for combos well. Great priority.

 

[SCOTU]

can you wave shine on a guy's shield without getting grabbed? my friend said you could and ill admit i had a hard time grabbing him.

Falco's shine has 9 frames of lag it puts on their sheild, a shield grab takes 7 frames.
9+7 = 16 frames.

Falco must then jump out of the shine (6 frames) and waveland (10 frames of lag), then shine again (1 frame)
6+10+1 = 17 frames.

sheild grab possible, even w/ perfect waveshines.

Same applies for fox's shine w/ different numbers (13 frames for shield grab, 15 frames for waveshine)

Edit: this does make it very difficult to grab though, but since falco/fox are most vulnerable as they are waveshining, that's when people try to grab, so they probably have the timing down (assuming you could perfect waveshine). Multishining on the other hand, prevents them from doing anything out of their shield: 9 frames shield stun, 7 frames for multishine (6 & 5 w/ fox)

 

[Miharu]

Only thing they can do is...

ROFLL!

Without the F, of course.

 

[lexxil]

Hi I Just wanted to ask, how important is Spacing with Falco?
Sometimes i dont FF on Shield to land behind the enemy, but when SHFFLING Falco has his Shine, after Nair oder Dair and its hard to grab him.

What do you think abaout Spacing + Falco?

 

[SCOTU]

shiz: what % can falco (and fox) shine out of a fox / marth chain throw. I thought that falco/fox could shine out of both fox's and marth's chain throws at 32%, but some guys on the fox boards say that space animals can't shine out until 75%/65% (falco/fox). I wanted professional knowledge.

 

[BooThunder]

ok first off i think thats a great question scotu and i would try to answer it for u if i had a copy of smash right now but i dont, so im gonna wait for the answer whenever u get it.

another question: I havent experimented with it much, but i found a tactic which may lend itself useful to multishining, with little plractice i could do it at about half of the time. some peopl have rediculous ways of multishining like using 2 fingers or even slaming the control stick up and down, but ive been just kind of sliding my thumb directly from Y-> B while im holding down on the control stick, but im not just doing it to multishine, im trying to do it EVERY time i shine, and i think if i could get the technique down, i could to a shine out of: another shine, a dash, or shield whenver i want and although multishining this way is slow (harder to hit Y and reshine a second time after doing it once) i think its much easier than repositioning ur hand.

 

[mathos]

shiz: what % can falco (and fox) shine out of a fox / marth chain throw. I thought that falco/fox could shine out of both fox's and marth's chain throws at 32%, but some guys on the fox boards say that space animals can't shine out until 75%/65% (falco/fox). I wanted professional knowledge.

I know I shine at 19%, pretty specific but too much more or less. Otherwise the Marth is the one messing up. In reality they shouldn't be chaingrabbing over 25%, they do utilts.

 

[Driz]

I've been learning to l-cancel and can do it fairly well my questions is when you hit with a dair and l-cancel it I have trouble hitting my Marth friend with a follow up shine he seems to be out of range causing me to be open to and attack, ne advice?

 

[SCOTU]

ok first off i think thats a great question scotu and i would try to answer it for u if i had a copy of smash right now but i dont, so im gonna wait for the answer whenever u get it.

another question: I havent experimented with it much, but i found a tactic which may lend itself useful to multishining, with little plractice i could do it at about half of the time. some peopl have rediculous ways of multishining like using 2 fingers or even slaming the control stick up and down, but ive been just kind of sliding my thumb directly from Y-> B while im holding down on the control stick, but im not just doing it to multishine, im trying to do it EVERY time i shine, and i think if i could get the technique down, i could to a shine out of: another shine, a dash, or shield whenver i want and although multishining this way is slow (harder to hit Y and reshine a second time after doing it once) i think its much easier than repositioning ur hand.

Yeah, slide finger from y>b lift finger, repeat. that's how i do it, and when warmed up, i do it almost every time (always for the first, usually for up to 4, after 4, i can screw up the rhythm though).

 

[BooThunder]

@scotu: idk if uve experienced this as well and i think its much easier to do with falco than fox and im not sure why but it seems that if u multishine and tilt the control stick diagonal forwards or backwards down then u move a pretty considerable distance after doing a few multishines. idk if it has any real uses but whenever i see multishing in vids they seem not to move at all when they do it but it seems if you moved even a little bit then u could potential position urself better when trying to get through their shield or just break it

 

[Leoneri]

SHiz, didnt you say you had vids coming out soon of your recent tourney?

 

[SCOTU]

@scotu: idk if uve experienced this as well and i think its much easier to do with falco than fox and im not sure why but it seems that if u multishine and tilt the control stick diagonal forwards or backwards down then u move a pretty considerable distance after doing a few multishines. idk if it has any real uses but whenever i see multishing in vids they seem not to move at all when they do it but it seems if you moved even a little bit then u could potential position urself better when trying to get through their shield or just break it

yeah, for the frame that you've technically left the ground, (the one you shine on), you get a bit of aerial control, so the sidewards tilt allows you to move a bit. SuperDoodleMan puts this to the limit in Perfect Control with his "shine tank" technique. I'm not too sure about for falco (i'm not very good at his multishine yet) but with fox, you're generally already in the right place to break their shield w/ your shine after shffling an aerial into it. Since Falco's shine is significantly smaller than fox's this may actually be necessary to preform in order to avoid shieldpoking.

 

[BooThunder]

another question: i saw a vid of falco jumping on top of a peach and shining on the tip of her head at 474% and immeditaly double jumping into a back aerial. can you do that to all or some characters when they're at too high of damage to be comboed traditionally?

 

[Driz]

I've been learning to l-cancel and can do it fairly well my questions is when you hit with a dair and l-cancel it I have trouble hitting my Marth friend with a follow up shine he seems to be out of range causing me to be open to and attack, ne advice?

I posted this and got no responses so gonna ask again, I'm just curious if I should be shining or if maybe should be recognizing that I'm to far and canceling into a nair?

 

[BooThunder]

I posted this and got no responses so gonna ask again, I'm just curious if I should be shining or if maybe should be recognizing that I'm to far and canceling into a nair?

im not completly sure what u mean. are u talking about shining to prevent the shieldgrab,
or just hitting him with the dair and then shining start a combo?

 

[arrowhead]

you just have to be closer to him when you shine

 

[2000]

I posted this and got no responses so gonna ask again, I'm just curious if I should be shining or if maybe should be recognizing that I'm to far and canceling into a nair?

You'd probably be shield grabbed if you try to follow up with an nair(depending on his percent). Wavedash towards him to close the distance before you shine, or just follow up with a jab instead.

 

[arrowhead]

wavedashing would be too slow. i think the jab suggestion is good

 

[DaShizWiz]

This is the thread of a tournament I won like 2 weeks ago.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=102838


I'll help people with questions when I get home.

.

 

[El_RaFa]

What's some good stuff Falco can do againts fox when fox likes to approach from above?
Sometimes I try to jump and attack but the fox cancels it out with a d-air. The only way i've gotten around it is to go defensive and just run away and shoot lasers until he approaches head on.

 

[kidprecision]

What has more priority, dair or shine?.

 

[the_air_up_there7]

I need help with mindgames, if there is such thing.

 

[mr_joey132]

el rafa, maybe uptilt?

 

[Driz]

I need help with mindgames, if there is such thing.

Not sure what you need to work on but one simple mindgame can be Dashdancing, and using SHL then doing an empty SH just to mess with your opponent. Also mixing up your recovery, like phantasm or firebird and where you drop or where you angle it stuff like that are simple but useful mindgames about as much as I know about em.

 

[mr_joey132]

the air up there 7, if you're on a platform and he's coming from above with an aerial, fall through the platform to avoid the aerial and then double jump into an aerial. SHL, RSHL, SHL, grab, maybe some dashdances in between.. just mix up

 

[MasterGary]

From what I know Falco's shine is a lot bigger than Fox's shine.

 

[SCOTU]

The hitbox for falco's shine is far smaller than the hitbox for fox's shine: falcos is the size of the smallest hexagon in the shine animation, fox's is the size of the largest. Falco's shines reflection hitbox is slightly larger than fox's though (because they are each as large as the animation looks). But the hitbox is definitely smaller for falco's shine.

 

[MasterGary]

Well I don't know about the hit-box but if you put Fox next to Falco and both use the reflect Falco's will be a bit bigger (probably because Falco is bigger than Fox)

 

[SCOTU]

Yeah, and his reflection box is bigger because the reflection box is a sphere encompassing the largest frame of the shine (which is larger for falco), but the actual shine (hitbox) is way larger on fox.

 

[Marth_marth]

how old were you shiz when you started

 

[itsneverfair]

shiz how do you keep yourself from falling thru the platform while shining? is it just touch and practice?

 

[SCOTU]

If you press/ hold down while shining on a platform, you will fall through it. Just make sure not to press down any more than is needed to shine.

 

[Handorin]

if you are doing a shine combo from a platform, just jump cancel it really fast so you can continue. Just make sure you dont get hit because you lose your second jump if you fall through slightly.

 

[Evil E.]

YEA i had that problem too "falling thru the platform"

Is Shiz the best Falco Player????

 

[MasterGary]

no, but he's close, bombsoldier is the best that i know of.